I have a 13 year old whos keen to come to crufts with me tommorrow.im not keen on taking him out of school as i dont like taking kids out for no reason.he has a good attendance and is doing well with his tasks/grades..hes on at me to let him come...
I wonder if i called the school for permission they'd grant it.
Would you take yours for the day?
or am i wrong for even considering it?

My 12 year old daughter is competing and we got permission two weeks ago - I don't think they will do over the phone.  My eldest daughter doesn't want to come (isn't competing) she doesn't want to miss the day! and didn't come last year either.

I think its whether you want him to come out of school - I have taken my youngest out of school when she was in junior school to come for the day - if she wasn't competing I think I would still seek permission from the school now she is in senior school but this probably should have been done last week?

I got permission last year on the basis she would learn alot about dogs , she was in charge of the camera so would improve her skills there and she would do a little presentation to her classmates about it . We got permission without any problem although she was seven and so not in such a critical time but a day and having good grades I would have thought it would be ok

I know a social worker who calls days like this - mental health days!  She used to say that sometimes (just sometimes) it was good for kids to take a day out to do something 1:1 with their parents.

If I could justify it I'd usually ask the school for permission in advance but I have occasionally taken one or other of my children out and written after the event to explain.  I suspect it makes me sound like a lax parent but I'm talking less than one day a year (on the basis that my kids usually say no!!).  The last time they took time off was an afternoon 2 years ago so that we could get up to London to see a concert at the Albert Hall on a Friday night - they both moaned about it but, in hindsight, they were glad they did as it meant we didn't have such a mad scramble and we had time to check into a hotel and for them to get changed first :)

If your son is really keen to go to Crufts, and not just angling for a day off school, then I'd be inclined to say yes

They are planning to fine parents in the future as it is only exceptional circumstances eg funerals etc that they think children should be allowed to have days off !

I can imagine the incidents of sickness will rise !

If your son is really keen to go to Crufts, and not just angling for a day off school, then I'd be inclined to say yes

hes a good kid been brought up with manners and i suppose im lucky hes not got in with 'a wrong crowd' if you know what i mean easily led as hes quiet...so im lucky...i know hes not trying to get the day off because it wouldnt wash with me...so far ive been saying 'no mate dad wont like it and im not sure your school will either' im also worried ill get told off or fined having not got permission...

any chance of him being stopped at the front doors and questioned??

No he will get through so long as you pay or have a ticket ;-)

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">No he will get through so long as you pay or have a ticket ;-)

Noooooooo!!!! i have to pay TOO!!! LOL ok thank you xx

what am i doing wrong with the quoting??lol

Yesterday I completed an application for my 7 year old to take Friday off school to go. He really wants to go so I agreed as its his 8th birthday on Sunday, I thought it would be a nice treat for him.

He came home tonight with a sealed envelope in one hand and a certificate for "giving 100% all the time" presented to him in front of the school in the other hand.

The sealed envelope contained a refusal for the day off school. Needless to say we had tears.

He is working 12 months ahead of his year so one day off isn't going to make a difference in the grand sceme of the academic year.

Now my dilemma is ...do I phone for the confrontation or do I take him and send a sick note on Monday?

One things for sure I'm never requesting time off again, he'll just take it and I'll face the consequences later!

That is just wrong in do many ways. We went to my daughters assembly last Friday and the rewarding of pupils we almost thought was so americanised as it became quite sickly with the types of reason and amounts of rewards.
If your son is doing so well in his commitment then they are so wrong in refusing a day off it is counter productive to the extent of why should he bother .

What were the reasons ?

> What were the reasons ?

Perhaps it's because what one person thinks is a good reason for a day off, wouldn't be a good reason for another - and that is the problem for the school. Where do you draw the line ?? For me, going to Crufts (unless the child is competing) is the same as taking a day out to go to Alton Towers - it's just a day out :) Obviously other people would disagree with me :) :) I don't think that doing well at school is a valid reason for being allowed a day off. What about the child who tries very hard, but isn't as successful ?

C going to Alton Towers compared to Crufts is not really comparable and the reason I gave about what Dingo would get out the day were I think very valid educational reasons ?

I admit when my daughter was in junior school she was 'sick' to come to crufts but she wasn't competing.

> I gave about what Dingo would get out the day were I think very valid educational reasons ?

Personally, I would disagree :) :) You could say that going shopping gave a child practise at counting money or weighing goods or learning colours etc etc

The reason underlined was "day off" so I assume because it's one day off opposed to going away on holiday.

He has only had an extra 5 days off in the 3 years he's been at school and that was for a cousins wedding in Italy.

schools visit zoos for education but they don't go shopping for school trips ;)

> Now my dilemma is ...do I phone for the confrontation or do I take him and send a sick note on Monday?

Schools come under pressure from the LEA as regards their attendance figures. It's unusual for permission to be given for an odd day, as it cannot be justified as for the purpose of a 'family holiday'. Individual teachers including heads, will often sympathise with you, but feel they have to toe the party line.

> One things for sure I'm never requesting time off again, he'll just take it and I'll face the consequences later!

Don't blame you. Sometimes rules are just there for show. Observing them can sometimes be against the interests of your child and be only there as a political contrivance.

Hope you both have a great day!

Going shopping compared to Crufts is not really comparable :-)

Yes but often on school trips we are asked to provide money for the children to buy things from the shop if there is one.

I'm agreeing with you Lucy :) my daughter went watching lots of the events and didn't 'shop' at all!!!  it was all about the dogs!  I think I'm lucky her current head of year is supportive of her 'hobby' and is very encouraging to her - hopefully he won't leave as he will be her head of year through her school life now!

> Going shopping compared to Crufts is not really comparable

Maybe not to you, but the school has the job of comparing lots of requests for different reasons and they have to decide whether they are valid reasons to miss a day of education. I'm sure you won't be surprised to hear that I only took my children out of school for grandparents' funerals :) :) :) And, yes, I don't agree with 'sickies' either :) :) :) :) LOL :)

> Yes but often on school trips we are asked to provide money for the children to buy things from the shop if there is one

I didn't mean shopping at Crufts - but parents taking their children out of school to go shopping :) :)

>He came home tonight with a sealed envelope in one hand and a certificate for "giving 100% all the time" presented to him in front of the school in the other hand.<br /><br />The sealed envelope contained a refusal for the day off school. Needless to say we had tears.<br /><br />

No question about it.  The boy deserves a treat for his birthday.  He's obviously worked very hard, and must be gutted.  I'm afraid that I would take him, and send a sickie note on Monday.  And you know what to do next time.

My view on what I would do is....
My boys have 100% attendance year on year.
If they say they are ill, I send them to school, if they dont perk up when they get to school (99.9% of the time kids do) then the school will ring me to pick them up. They are very rarely ill.
I arrange appointments outside school time as much as possible.
I make sure they are in school on time every day.
So if I wanted to take my child out of school for one day a year (and I did to take my eldest to Alton Towers!!!) then I will!!!!
I did ask permission for Alton Towers (tickets out of the sun so deffinate date we had to go) And it was granted!!!
I would pull a sickie!!!
The LEA wont do anything because it wont flag up on their system as he is more then a pecentage (is it 90%)
I will be taking my sons out of school and college a few days (seperatly) to look after me after I have a major op in the next few months. I wont be asking permission, I will tell them why and tell them Sam needs work sending home (College already know and have said they will email work to James!!) as I live in the middle of nowhere, with nop public transport!!!!
Good Luck :) :)
Lea :) :)

I got fined £50 for taking my 13 year old son out of school. He had a 93% attendance and the only reason it was not 100% was because he fractured his foot in PE and had a few days off in pain and he was sent to school in a cast. I was told it was because he was doing GCSE's when we took him out (they do these to their ability at his school). Really got me fuming!!!

My son has missed school a couple of times, (with permission from school), for Crufts as we had a dog entered, last year he got bored, so he is going to school tomorrow, also, girl came into season so she isn't going either!

One nonsense problem I am immensely happy not to have to deal with as I home ed my children, they'll be able to do as few or as many shows as they like!

When my son was at primary school he was refused permission to go to Crufts. When I went and spoke to the Headteacher and explained we were exhibiting and manning Discover Dogs she was happy to change her mind. Perhaps if you are exhibiting it might be worth going in person to talk to someone?

How times have changed.I took my daughter out of school when she was about 13 to go to Crufts.I wrote to the school for permission and got it.The head of year even wanted to know how our 2 dogs did (She is now 18 and has to stay at home this year to look after my other dogs)

Just so you all know he went yesterday and enjoyed himself so much he was disapointed when it all came to an end!! he actually was interested in a few different breeds,and ask questions like why are they all boys in there/how come theyre on a table...why dont the judge smile lol he picked out a few winners too....soo glad i took him.x

I'm really glad you took him and he enjoyed his day out.  My mum always took me to Crufts from when I was just over a year old...i'm still excited about going now and i'm 29!  I think it is crazy how you can't just take your child out of school for a day for something that happens once a year, personally I think i'd just phone the school and tell them they are ill so they can go and enjoy a day out and learn a lot of new things and experience the day.

Really pleased :) :)
Hope you dont get any come back on monday, but I would have done exactly the same :) x
Lea :)

Yay!

Another Home Educator here as well!  We love having the freedom to go out and about when and where we like and DS has ALWAYS learned more outside of school.  

We actually got permission for DS to go to Crufts whilst still at primary school, but if they'd refused he'd have gone anyway ;)  There's a whole lot more education in a day at Crufts than there is in a day at school if you look at what they actually DO in school (That actually came from the Deputy Head at his Primary school who was a schoolfriend of mine)

In addition, most of the school trips in this area are to ALTON TOWERS or similar :(  very few actually EDUCATIONAL school trips.

I really worry about the way parents have been intimidated/conned into thinking that only the school can provide learning experiences for their children and are the arbiters of all education in Britain - they aren't.  

The LAW states that EDUCATION is compulsory, whether by school or otherwise, but most people have been led to believe via the government that School is compulsory - it isn't

In addition, the LAW states that PARENTS  are responsible for their children's education, not the state, so if a parent decides that an outing will provide a good learning experience then that should carry weight.  

OK I'll get off my soapbox now ;

Really glad young-un went to Crufts and enjoyed his day :)  Bet he slept well that night LOL

My girls will be "Ill" every year utility day at Crufts is on a school day. Education doesn't just happen in a classroom!
Paula xxx

Well I also took my boy for the day and we had a brilliant time.

If I get a £50 fine so be it.

It was more than worth it!

Well done you! Ridiculous for the school to object over one day with 100% attendance, and I'm sure you can fight any complaints they try to make. :-)

> Ridiculous for the school to object over one day

If the school has agreed to the day off, then fine. However, although the parent may think that they are having an educational day off with their child, if they haven't got the school's permission, the child is also learning that if you don't like a rule it is OK to ignore it or lie. I suppose for each parent the decision is down to them.

"No question about it.  The boy deserves a treat for his birthday.  He's obviously worked very hard, and must be gutted.  I'm afraid that I would take him, and send a sickie note on Monday.  And you know what to do next time."

Totally agree ! it is one day only, after all. If his attendance is otherwise excellent, then I cannot see the problem. I have taken mine out of school in order to go to Crufts, giving a letter of explanation and the school didn't mind at all. That said, it was a few years ago and I know they are tightening up on this type of thing these days...

However, in the big grand scheme of things, do folk on here really believe that a day at Crufts will damage their child's education in any way, shape or form ?

"My girls will be "Ill" every year utility day at Crufts is on a school day. Education doesn't just happen in a classroom!
Paula xxx"

Totally agree with this too.  Good for you !

we need a 'like' button cause some very good points made here...

yes he slept like a baby actually from about 20 minutes after entering the car until we got home,came through the door gave me a kiss and said mum thank you for today ive reeeeally had a good day ........but do u mind if i just go to bed please...this kid is a dream kid im telling u i dread the girlfriend days when some girl breaks his heart....lol

Definatley enjoyed the day far much more teaching someone i love about something i love whos ACTUALLY listening and enjoying himself too!! OH would be yawning and eye rolling all day....

in response to daisys comment i see your point however,in my situation its definatly not the way..he does have a mind of his own and he knows full well of certain rules in our house and has the respect for me that i brought him up to have.....I can swear even as a really small child if he asked for sweets going past the shop from home and i said no iv NEVER heard him say ooooooh whyyyy or oh pleeeease mummy....Never! hes accepted it i say no its no...and he gets rewarded for his lovely behaviour....i got to be honest my daughter the next one down is a bit stronger willed and will give me a moo cow look as if to say god i hate u mother but still....will say OK....when i say no!!

ive put in a lot of hard work with my lot and i dont intend to let it slip...my nana was strict on me and i have passed that down to my lot...i think theyre not only nicer kids to talk to their happier for it...we dont do tantrums in our house...

yes it does depend on the individual but i can promise you now i have NOT taught him to ignore rules! He darent!! LOL.

My girls will be "Ill" every year utility day at Crufts is on a school day. Education doesn't just happen in a classroom!

Totally agree with this too.  Good for you

ill second that!!

I think the vast majority are supportive of you. Glad you had a great day.

> do folk on here really believe that a day at Crufts will damage their child's education in any way, shape or form

That is not the point I was making. Schools will be bombarded with parents wanting days off for their children for numerous reasons. The school has to try to make a decision as to what is a 'good' reason - they have a very difficult job to do. As can be seen here, some parents genuinely feel that 'their' reason is valid. The school's decision has to be final. Parents must set a good example to their children and teach them that rules are there for a good reason and sometimes we don't like them, but have to follow them. Lying about being sick is just that - lying IMO.

OK - maybe I have old-fashioned values, but I think that schools have a difficult enough time trying to maintain discipline etc without parents sticking two fingers up to them if a decision doesn't go their way.

I can see Daisy's point; a subconscious message is being given that your desires take precedence over your duties. I had to confer with my boss and colleagues to arrange cover for work, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to exhibit! There have been many times when there's something I'd rather do than go to work, but that's just tough (and taking 'sickies' is intolerable).

I speak as a lecturer in a 6th form college...

I find it ridiculous when schools won't allow time off for certain 'professional' outings that parents want to take the children on. When writing to schools for permission, give details of the educational value of what you are doing and give specific reasons for doing it and why it will enhance the child's learning. Just owning a dog teaches children huge responsibility and manners!

It is a known fact that children with exemplary attendance do better in exams etc. (and tend to achieve get higher grades - main concern of schools) than those with poor attendance. BUT education is more than just what children learn at school. How many very intelligent and hugely qualified professionals are there out there who have no 'people skills' or areas of interest outside their specialism?

>How many very intelligent and hugely qualified professionals are there out there who have no 'people skills'

Far too many.

>It is a known fact that children with exemplary attendance do better in exams etc. (and tend to achieve get higher grades - main concern of >schools) than those with poor attendance. BUT education is more than just what children learn at school. How many very intelligent and hugely >qualified professionals are there out there who have no 'people skills' or areas of interest outside their specialism?

Totally agree.

There is far more to a person than just certificates.  It's so very sad when a person has NO life or personal interests outside of  their professional life.   I know several teachers who go to work, teach and their only interest outside work time is getting hammered.  No family/other half, no hobby, no interests, just work and drink - that's no kind of life for a person.  However, they seem to think that's what life is

>the child is also learning that if you don't like a rule it is OK to ignore it or lie. I suppose for each parent the decision is down to them.

That's a good thing to learn IMHO, blind obedience is a very dangerous tool used by governments for their own ends, best taught from an early age.  There's a big difference between a reasonable rule and a ridiculous one, the trick is to know the difference.

If a child comes from a dog loving/showing/breeding family, then I honestly cannot see the problem.
I genuinely believe that a well spent day at the worlds largest dog show will benefit the child more than one ordinary day at school.
I would like to think that the vast majority of schools would recognise this - and therefore give their permission.
If not, then I would not blame any parents who then took the decision to take their child along anyway.
It is one day in a school year.....
No-one worries if a child goes on a school trip for a day do they ?
Earlier in the school year both of my youngest children (year 1 and 6) were treated to a trip to the cinema (think it was cinema week/film week). This meant an entire morning away from school. They watched Gnomeo and Juliet (both had already seen this film).
I really think more could be learned from a day at Crufts than watching a movie they had already seen.(although we didn't go this year)
Oh and my husband and I are very traditional in our parenting and have high values.
Sometimes though we have to think outside of the box.

> I really worry about the way parents have been intimidated/conned into thinking that only the school can provide learning experiences for their children and are the arbiters of all education in Britain - they aren't.&nbsp;&nbsp;
>
> The LAW states that EDUCATION is compulsory, whether by school or otherwise, but most people have been led to believe via the government that School is compulsory - it isn't <IMG alt=mad src="/images/mad.gif">
>
> In addition, the LAW states that PARENTS&nbsp; are responsible for their children's education, not the state, so if a parent decides that an outing will provide a good learning experience then that should carry weight.&nbsp;&nbsp;
>
>

Yay Dill !!!!  Great to meet another home-edder and a dog-showing one to boot!!  Oh and even better, another terrier one!

I entirely agree with your comments.  Nearly all of us have all been brought up to believe school is the 'only way' and people can be forgiven for feeling that way as we are part of a highly institutionalised society.  I have had some convincing to do and no doubt will encounter indifference towards our 'philosophy on education' throughout our children's childhoods. 

Many parents feel they have no say in their children's education and the reins are handed to strangers come primary school age :( .  We live very rurally and I feel so incredibly lucky to be in a position to be able to offer my children this life.  They are only young but I feel their education is going have a strong initial basis on nature!  Having watched litters of pups being born, they certainly know more at five years old about the birds and the bees than I did at ten lol!! :)

Sorry to hijack this thread a bit (hope OP's son enjoyed Crufts as much as my girls did :) ).  Would love to meet you at a show perhaps one day Dill?