Did anyone see this programme last night on BBC 4 It was very moving to watch 2 dogs learn to do what they are born for. just proves that no bad dogs, only bad owners. The bloodhound overcame her fears, and the Beardie had his instincts channelled in the correct way. He knew he was born to 'chase' sheep just needed showing how to herd instead of biting them. Real teary at the end!!

I'm sure I saw that a wee while ago, there's another one tonight at 8, Ice Dogs, and another tomorrow I think.

yes I saw it a year or so ago, very good programme and shows what happens when dogs do what they're bred to do :-)

Have you got the title of the programme as my search of BBC4 came up with nothing?

Thanks

Natural World http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qnnh

Thanks.

I was looking on the wrong channel

Glad to help :-)

What a great positive programme, it brought a tear to my eye at the end when they both achieved what they set out to do against all the odds.

Just watched it on IPlayer it was very moving.

I actually have a different viewpoint on it.

I watched the programme again today and made some notes on the bits that really stood out for me.
1. The Bloodhound people used motivation, praise and reward. No wonder their dog graduated as a Police Dog Tracker, they made sure she understood what she was doing and how clever she was when she did it. They tuned into the dog's natural instincts and channelled them. The rewards were timed perfectly and appealed to the dog.
2. Many important stages seemed to have been missed out of the Beardies training - eg he is yelled at for pulling the handler on the lead and then the next time we see him, he is now walking anxiously behind her. How was this achieved and why didn't they show a short clip? (Think I know the answer to that one.) Also, he is a renowned chaser and gripper but the 'first' time we are shown him in the pen with Barbara and the sheep, he isn't doing it which makes me think there was some prior work on him before he was allowed to be filmed.
3. Sad that the fact that the Beardie (Herbie) loves his toys instantly had him marked as potentially bad with sheep - thousands of dogs enjoy chasing balls/toys etc but would never worry sheep, including collies. I didn't buy the connection. I would also have been overjoyed that he was so into his toys that he could potentially be homed to someone who would make sure that time spent chasing his football would mean he never had the energy to get into mischief lol and he had an outlet for chasing and 'killing' as she put it. Better to 'kill' a football than a sheep. In training we are taught that if you supress the instinct it just comes out in another way. So perhaps she could have put a 'kill' command to chasing the ball and then had a 'leave' command so that he could have this outlet but it was under control, rather than banning it altogether?
4. There were a lot of harsh comands/yelling/tellings-off with Herbie and so little praise when he did get it right. It was just assumed that if he was told 'Sit' or 'Stay' (when quite often she meant 'Wait' ) he should do it. So nagged and yelled at it when you did something she didn't like and ignored when you obeyed. Sad.
5. The thinking behind her Recall training was dubious to say the least. So a dog should bust itself to get back to you simply because he loves you. Bit like saying we should all go to work for free because we like to please the boss - no wages needed!
6. Old fashioned methods used - eg pushing the dog into the sit rather than luring, seeing the dog being keen to get out of the kennel as him wanting to take over, slamming the crate door in his face when he was in the car. In the same vein - punched fist in the air 'I am the boss!'. Although I am in control when I train, I think of it as a partnership, not a battle for control.
7. It all backfired horribly on Trials day which only confirmed what I always tell people who come to my club or when I am discussing what training methods I use on the phone. You can train by compulsive methods but as soon as the dog is off the lead and has the option to obey, or not, what do you think is most likely to happen? That is why we train using rewards and make sure the dog enjoys the training so that they want to obey as it has always been worth their while.
8. Finally, the commentary during the programme referred to the two trainers as 'expert' dog trainers so Joe Public may see these methods as being okay to use. Mind you, having watched the outcome on Trial day perhaps he will work out that it doesn't actually pay to train like that? Hope so.

Sorry for the essay folks!

I have seen your exact points 2-8 discussed on another forum. The consensus is, is that particular trainer does not have most peoples' respect as being up to date and positive methods based.

Thanks MsT, that would be my post under my affix of Aramisty on the DogPages Forum.