Regulars to this board know my thoughts on this issue but thought it important to raise this again due to my visit to three pet shops. For all the obvious reasons the sale of puppies from pet shops and dealers should be banned.
In recent weeks I visited three pet shops in Londons east end. I will not go into too much detail (if you wish to read more as it is not permissable to place a link to my own blog and web site but a search in google under 'puppy trafficking' will bring up both) other than to say to see puppies still unsold at 16 weeks I thought unacceptable but the see another at 26 weeks was so distressing. To then be advised that a puppy was still unsold at 9 months, for sale in season.  The puppy is KC registered it was sold to the pet shop along with alitter mate by a breeder who incidently has a KC affix too but is not an assurred breeder and not a member of the pedigree breeds Council. To make matters even worse this poor puppy suffered a discharge from its eye which resulted in an abcess, now has a cloudy eye and considerable lost of sight, possibly all in one eye - price tag £1,200.
This is unacceptable, I have contacted who I think should be made aware - now just waiting and waiting.

I'm assuming the Kennel club is one of the parties contacted as the breeder has gone totally against their Code of ethics.

here's hoping someone listens to you Pat, best of luck, i'm just glad selling puppies in pet shops in Edinburgh seems to have died out.

That's awful and I hope something is done (definitely report to KC) -poor pups, what a start in life. I think we all know what hard work it SHOULD be to be left with unsold older pups as they have to be traiend and socialised. These poor mites no doubt won't ever eevn have had a walk.

What is the "pedigree breeds council" though?

Pedigree Breed Council I did not know how else to phrase it as I did not write the breed in question. It is the ****** Breed Council.

All a bit cryptic for me :)  Why can't you mention the breed?

I can't find your blog Pat, could you pm me a link please?  Thanks

I used to live in the East End and in my area, there were pet shops that seemed to be run by large families who had been trading there for a great many years. If the council ever declined their licence it was re-applied for by another associate or relative and so they kept going... and going.... almost like a local syndicate.

It's over a decade since I last went into any of these shops but they then could still 'order' any breed of dog you wanted and more sadly, bought litters from just about anyone, so the BYBs must think it's Christmas. Kittens as well as puppies, so the explosion of BYB that has occurred in the last 10 years is most certainly mutually beneficial to this kind of establishment. I really feel for those locals who have been/are trying to stop the sale of dogs & cats in these shops (as I did myself as a local resident for many years); their job is probably harder now than it was 25 years ago when the shops just ordered in shipments of puppies from Wales. They probably still get Welsh puppies and kittens, but there's more than likely also now a reliable stream from the local area (with no transport costs to pay either!).

Celli, it's illegal to sell dogs and cats in a pet shop in Scotland.

I was truely horrified when I went to visit a dog kennels in Manchester.  I went to visit a dog in quarantine that my friend had brought in and we had to walk through this horrifying 'shop' full of glass fronted boxes full of KC registered puppies.  In ANY breed.  and if they didn't have the breed you wanted, you were to let them know and they would get it for you!! Shocked me to my very core.  Puppy supermarkets should be banned!!  Funnily enough, I've only ever seen them in England?

It is the ****** Breed Council.

Still confused because I was under the impression that a Breed Council has the various breed clubs as members, not individual breeders. Such as the Golden Retriever Breed Council: http://www.goldenretrievers.co.uk/

Celli, it's illegal to sell dogs and cats in a pet shop in Scotland.

I didn't realise that, hooray for the SNP :-) such a pity England hasn't seen fit to follow suit .

> Funnily enough, I've only ever seen them in England?

I have seen this in France, admittedly quite a few years ago, and I have seen it in Australia rather more recently. 

> Celli, it's illegal to sell dogs and cats in a pet shop in Scotland.
>

I can't find anything about this on the internet.  Do know what year this was brought in and what act covers it?

No but I do know it was more than 10 yrs at least.  It was actually a pet store that told me this and true, I have never seen a puppy or kitten in a pet shop in Scotland.  Don't get me wrong, we still have puppy mills but not the actual big shop things. 

> I have never seen a puppy or kitten in a pet shop in Scotland

Not sure that necessarily means they have managed to ban them.  I wonder if Pat knows.

>Celli, it's illegal to sell dogs and cats in a pet shop in Scotland.

No it isn't. The Breeding and Sale of Dgs Act 1999 says:

"(2)The keeper of a licensed Scottish rearing establishment is guilty of an offence if--
(a)he sells a dog otherwise than at a licensed Scottish rearing establishment or a licensed pet shop,
(b)he sells a dog otherwise than to the keeper of a licensed pet shop knowing or believing that the person who buys it intends that it should be sold (by him or any other person),
(c)he sells a dog which is less than eight weeks old otherwise than to the keeper of a licensed pet shop, or
(d)he sells a dog which, when delivered to him, was wearing a collar with an identifying tag or badge but is not wearing such a collar when delivered to the person to whom he sells it."

Oh no.9 months old and no home? SO VERY VERY SAD :-(

What I don't understand about the 9-month old puppy is how they can have been raising it cheaply enough to make it still profitable at 9 months on! It makes me sick to my stomach to think of it in that way, but after all- profit is all they must be interested in.

I've never seen a Puppy for sale in a Pet Shop in England. I have seen them in Spain and recently in Miami. The one in Miami was particularly sickening- puppies in glorified big fish tanks, with pink shredded paper for bedding and wearing collars full of diamonds :( The wall unfortunately was absolutely full of pictures of celebrities with their pups in their arms! :(

Sadly I know of several pet shops in Scotland that sell kittens, and one at least that sells puppies. It is not illegal.

> I've never seen a Puppy for sale in a Pet Shop in England.

I think you will find it is down to individual councils and their policies, as it is they who give the licences.

I could never understand why such a left-wing council as Hackney was in the 80's, 90's and 00's, who had banned live animal circuses within the borough, but still permitted the sale of puppies and kittens in pet shops despite a multitude of complaints from the public, and many breaches of licence terms by the shops selling them.

The councils that I have had dealings with have all said that they cannot refuse a pet shop license if their license conditions are met. What they can do however is tighten up those conditions so much that it is not practical for a pet shop to sell puppies. This is much easier to do if they don't actually have a pet shop operating at the time. Sevenoaks council could only do this as much as their legal dept would allow and this was not enough to stop the existing pet shop from selling puppies.

I imagine the majority of the general public believe that puppies are no longer sold in pet shops (apart from Harrods) unless they personally know of a shop where puppies are sold but has the number of pet shops selling puppies increased over the last decade?

What exactly is a Scottish Rearing establishment - is it another name for a dealer?

I also remember reading somewhere that if puppies were not kept on the premises over night a license wasn't needed?

I've seen a couple, to be fair the pens were clean and the puppies looked friendly and happy, but they were charging the most ridiculous prices and I daresay they weren't even KC registered, certainly they won't have been well bred! The pens looked no different to a normal puppy pen that any breeder would have, it was just that there were 4 different litters of different breeds on sale, though kept separate.

I suppose that's why people keep buying them - because they look friendly and happy and probably healthy enough too - especially if they're not KC registered (!). The fact that there are probably a multitude of problems waiting behined the scenes never enters their head :-(

Maybe it's because I am a bit more educated on these issues (thanks to forums like this) than average Joe Bloggs Public, but I can literally not get my head around the fact that people buy a dog from a pet shop? How can they look into a breed, and go back to the pet shop to buy it? How is it that in between seeing it in the pet shop and buying it, can they not come across any information that tells them not to, or not have any sort of thought that it may be wrong to do so?!

I've been thinking about it ever since seeing this thread and I can't get my head around it! For starters, if they are the type of people that impulse buy or think that perhaps the pet shop pups are cheaper than responsible breeders (Common misconception I think amongst puppy buyers that a 'show' or 'working' breeder charges outrageous amounts for a puppy) surely they would find BYB more appealing than a pet shop?

I'm not saying that I support BYB, but often they would still be *somewhat* more socialised to normal comings and goings than your average pet shop puppy?

> but I can literally not get my head around the fact that people buy a dog from a pet shop?

I think you may have missed the obvious that these people could not buy a puppy any other way because very often their situation/lifestyle excludes them from ever passing the vetting from a responsible breeder.

Good point Stoog I was thinking the same thing. Some people just want to hand over the cash, no questions asked.
I have had phone enquires and when I have asked questions, they ring off !!! The genuine ones are always happy to chat and ask lots of questions.
I met up with a couple of prospective owners long before my bitch was mated and went on walks with them, mine are a large active breed so I felt it important they see them in all their glory.
Everyone  visited several times, so we had lots of time to get to know each other, most of mine went to people within the breed, and they all had at least one of the breed already and attend shows, so I get to see them regularly.
The thought of someone just turning up with cash and taking one of my precious babies sends shudders down mine spine !! It just would not happen.

Added to that is of course that they have to go on a waiting list in many instances with a responsible breeder. Even if there is a litter advertised, it possibly doesn't have what they are looking for (colour, sex etc) and once people have decided they want a puppy then of course they need to have it yesterday!! They're not going to be prepared to wait 6 months or so for a puppy when they can get one (cheaper and closer to home) the following day.

The appeal of a pet shop is they can walk onto the premises and there is likely to be quite a selection of cute, fluffy puppies to chose from. Even if they're not what initially was being looked for (wanted a westie and left with a cavalier for example) chances are the seller is going to persuade the buyer that what is on sale is JUST what they are looking for. Decide to get puppy, visit shop, buy puppy. Easy. Not to mention this is the habit people have become used to with supermarkets, the internet etc. They just don't realise getting a puppy is any different. They might even think it is better to buy from a shop where there are more breeds to chose from and someone 'professional' offering advice - especially if 'vet checked premises' makes it sound very suitable.

And because it's a pet shop, even if the person only went in for a look and doesn't have all the necessary equiptment of course it can be purchased at the same time as a puppy. I think thats possibly why these dog 'superstores' are suceeding. :-(

Obviously the advice is not reaching the right ears - as it's usually restricted to places where only the 'converted' go i.e. dog forums and publications...

> And because it's a pet shop, even if the person only went in for a look and doesn't have all the necessary equiptment of course it can be purchased at the same time as a puppy. I think thats possibly why these dog 'superstores' are suceeding. :-(

I think you are bang on here.
Many pet shop 'carry' livestock not because they make any money out of the sale of the animals themselves, but because at point of sale the buyers will almost certainly take up other products - from the 'recommended food' which the puppy must be kept on! right through to a crate, food & water dishes, flea & worm control, treats, pee pads, chews, collar & lead, toys of course!!! grooming equipment, ID tags, coat perhaps, blankets, beds... maybe even books on the breed, books on training, clickers, and so on.

It is less with a hamster, but even so... the casual buyer still needs a good cage (not cheap these days), bedding, food, toys, carrier, water & food bowls/bottles, wheel/s, nesting bedding and anything else the shop suggests is needed. 

I think pet shop licence holders do make a good return on selling puppies, for what other reason would they be selling them?  One only has to look at the prices they are charging English Bulldog for example £1,700 was the original asking price reduce to £1,200 at 9 months of age and still the same price being charged even though has only sight in one eye. Samoyed original selling price £700. These are just two examples there are plenty more. The commercial breeders, puppy farmers are thought to be given about £200 per puppy for the popular breeds selling at £475 in the pet shop.

The Council responsible for licensing these two pet shops when I questioned their age and why are they still allowed to be for sale in a pet shop environment, came back to me with the response - surplus to requirement there is nothing we can do about it. Surely, this must be a valid, strong reason why puppies should not be allowed to be sold from pet shops.    

I'm curious about the Samoyed and bulldog puppies as presumably these haven't come from 'puppy farms'? I thought puppy farmers tended to focus on popular breeds that sold well and weren't likely to need high input in terms of rearing (e.g. the high probability of needing an expensive caesarian) so will these puppies have come from private breeders instead?

I'm also curious as to what the alternative for the older puppies would be if they remain unsold past a certain age? Are they going to be indefinitly for sale in the pet shop (on through online adverts) getting increasingly cheaper and less appealing? Will they be returned to the 'breeders' for breeding purposes? Dumped on to a rescue or worse? Is staying at the pet shop, while not ideal, a preferable alternative to other less savory options? Obviously it would be much better if they weren't there in the first place, but as they are...?