All my dogs and children have been raised to respect each other.  I detest children that get to use dogs like play-things so I always keep that in mind that although they can play together, dogs are living creatures.  Anyway, My yougest child has recently just turned 3 and is a nightmare.  She is fine with my 2 cockers as they really adore all the kids but my springer has always been a bit wary of the young ones.  My daughter has realised that, if she sits near the springer on the sofa, the dog will jump off.  This has turned into a great game!  To the point that she will now try to land on the dog(not jumping but leaning against where she is lying?)  Well, today, the springer spun round and nipped her when she did this.  No noise, no warning(so to speak), just snapped.  Of course the little one got a fright and ran over to me but where do I go from here?

I should totally add that this behaviour is absolutely not allowed.  She does get disaplined for this everytime but if she makes her run once, she is getting the re-action she is obviously wanting.
I don't want to separate the springer as this is not her problem and she really takes things to heart as she is such a sensitive little thing but I can't cage the 3 yr old(no matter how much I want too!!!!)

OK, Just read this back and have now editted to add - My daughter behaviour is unacceptable, not the dogs!!lol.

Without wanting to sound heartless I hope you firmly told your daughter that it darn well served her right! I also hope you gave her no sympathy at all either.  She just might now stop the tormenting of your poor dog. (you wouldn't guess I'm on the dogs side would you? lol)  I think you are going to have to be really strict with your daughter from now on. No means no etc. I've had a similar conversation with my one son,his little girl is nearly 2 and she was born with major heart problems and my son has been a complete pushover with her! He is now starting to be firmer with her and she has been much better the last few days.

I sympathise!My daughter has 3 dogs,one a rescue,with a slightly uncertain temperament,Hes now 15 bless him,and youve always had to respect him,be a little wary around him.He has nipped her children,never breaking the skin,sometimes  the kids deserved it.I hasten to say this isnt an everyday occurrance!The trouble is young kids dont always do as theyre told,no matter how many times theyre told,put on the naughty step,had priveleges taken away!I think all you can do is what youre already doing,explaining why she shouldnt,watch her ,etc.Hopefully she ll learn!

As muzzling wouldn't work, I guess she would just be put on the naughty step every time it happened for me.

:-)

I wouldn't let the dog on the sofa - I know it's not the dog's fault that the incident occurred but if the dog isn't allowed on the sofa then your daughter can't torment him in that way. A three year old is old enough to be told not to do something but IMHO isn't old enough to always be relied upon to do what is required of them. The child and the dog would not be allowed to be together without constant adult supervision.

> She does get disaplined for this everytime but if she makes her run once, she is getting the re-action she is obviously wanting.> [b]

I think you need to have a reaction to your daughter's behaviour where the reaction is less desirable than the reward she gets by tormenting the dog - I would put her out of the room if she even attempted to annoy the dog. I would also reward her for good interractions with the dog :-) It is a little bit worrying that you say the dog didn't give any warnings - are you sure you didn't miss any warning signs? It could be that your daughter has done this so many times in the past that the dog has learnt that a growl doesn't work to stop her and it's only other choice is to snap at her - it could have been worse and the dog could have bitten her and meant it. If you are unable to stop your daughter from tormenting the dog then there is no other option than to keep the two of them apart even if that means removing the dog from the room. I am sure the dog would rather be out of the room and free from your daughter's unwanted attention than being in the same room and being tormented. It could be far worse than a nip next time :-(

Do think that stopping the dog getting on the seat will just mean the child will find another way to torment may be one more sly and more difficult to control. I know one is a human and one a dog but I do think the child should learn that wherever the dog is allowed to rest it should not be disturbed, making a dog go to its bed or a cage will not work if the child just devises other means of distressing it.

I wouldn't be massively concerned over the lack of growl, UNLESS you know your dog doesn't growl and that this is because you or someone else has punished them for growling... I do think most dogs would snap if someone landed on them, or nearly landed on them - mine certain do to one another if there isn't time for a grrr first. Your dog may also feel that he/she has moved out of the way countless times and this was the final straw (or there was no way/no where to move!)

Mmm so, separate when you cannot supervise closely.
Reward DOG and child VERY well for being around one another calmly.
Time child out  with age appropriate level of discussion for attempting to wind up the dog.

Possibly stop dog getting on the sofa but not if this is going to cause a lot of tension and aggro for the dog (and because children will pick up on that and I suspect you do NOT want the child ordering the dog off the sofa when you are not supervising/not able to stop her/shes escaped from wherever behind your back!)

I would also normally suggest that the dog is given a crate or similar for their own personal space, but I have a suspicion that this would be very tempting for your daughter to get to and wind the dog up further.

Harley, there were definately no warning signs as I was sitting there.  No eye contact or growling, nothing, as it was a 'surprise' attack so to speak.  But then, this dog is by far the quietest dog I've owned.  She has literally barked twice her whole life and once was when we were being broken into during the night.  Funnily enough, she bit that time too?(but I was less bothered!!).  My daughter knows growling and what it means as the old spaniel will soon tell her to back off if she annoys her.
I wouldn't keep her off the sofa as she really is a sensitive soul.  She has somewhere to go that the kids are not allowed(utility room) but she very rarely goes out of choice.
I think my daughter may have got a good fright yesterday(and of course I told her it served her right!!lol).  When we came back in yesterday and all the dogs were greeting us, my daughter got excited and I could see this was worrying the springer.  So I stopped everything and asked Daughter to look at the dog.  I explained to her how the dog looked worried(eyes and ears) and not happy and that seemed to get through to her.  She sat down and petted her lightly telling her she was a good dog and the dog actually choose to lie beside her contiueing the petting. 
I think I will need to stop treating daughter like a baby and realise that she is actually growing up?!

We have allready started a treat session with dog and daughter.  Luckill this dog is trained to silent hand signals so I stood behind DD and she spoke the commands and I used the signals.  Dog was 100% and got lovely treats, DD was overjoyed with her dog tricks.  Anything that builds the bond.

> We have allready started a treat session with dog and daughter.  Luckill this dog is trained to silent hand signals so I stood behind DD and she spoke the commands and I used the signals.  Dog was 100% and got lovely treats, DD was overjoyed with her dog tricks.  Anything that builds the bond.

That sounds delightful :-)

> Harley, there were definately no warning signs as I was sitting there.  No eye contact or growling, nothing, as it was a 'surprise' attack so to speak. 

> wouldn't keep her off the sofa as she really is a sensitive soul.  She has somewhere to go that the kids are not allowed(utility room) but she very rarely goes out of choice.
>

My worry would be that even with you sitting there you were unable to prevent your daughter from tormenting the dog to the point where it retaliated and nipped your daughter. If these occurrences happen so quickly I would worry that it could happen again with disasterous results. Keeping the dog off the sofa might not be what you want to do but would it not be safer - if the incidents happen so quickly that they can't be stopped I would rather not put the dog in a situation where it feels it has no choice but to fight back.

It's not the sofa.  She 'avoids' my daughter whenever she comes near.  Say for example, she is lying in the hall, if my daughter were to come out of the living room, the dog would get up and move away.  She just doesn't like kids till they reach schoolage.
Also, I was there when she did it but it wasn't like I was sitting doing nothing while she repeatedly tormented the dog.  She ran at her once and the dog turned once.  I had no chance to know she was going to behave this way or the dog.
Whether the dog was lying on the sofa or in her own bed, she still re-acts the same way.  I don't see the point of keeping her off the sofa? It's not a dominance thing or anything, it's fear.

> Also, I was there when she did it but it wasn't like I was sitting doing nothing while she repeatedly tormented the dog.  She ran at her once and the dog turned once.  I had no chance to know she was going to behave this way or the dog.
>

I didn't think that you did just sit there and do nothing :-) What I was saying is that the incident happened so quickly you didn't have a chance to intervene and prevent it from happening. If it were me in the same situation I would try to not let an incident occur where the dog felt it needed to defend itself and if that meant not having my daughter and the dog on the sofa at the same time then that is something I would enforce.

I had no chance to know she was going to behave this way or the dog.

I may have misread  your earlier posts but I thought you had said your daughter had done this before? Apologies if I have this wrong and your daughter had not done this before. I have children myself - albeit grown-up ones now - and do realise just how quick young children can be so trying to prevent an incident from not even occurring in the first place would be a priority for me and if that meant having to separate child and dog then that is what I would have to do, however difficult it was, until the child was older and realised how to behave around dogs.

I don't think it helps trying to apportion "blame" between a child and a dog in a situation like this be. You are the one who must take responsibility, and it is up to you to prevent it happening again. I would not consider allowing child and dog to share the sofa again.How would you feel if your dog "unexpectedly" bites your little girl badly in a similar situation? And how would you feel taking your dog to be put down because of it?
For goodness sake, don't have any dogs on your furniture - it isn't a cruelty case for them to have their own beds! Don't leave your daughter alone with the dogs, and forbid her touch them when they are in their beds. If she can't be trusted not to pester them when you are in the room (!) then give them cages to sleep in. If dogs feel secure they are less likely to bite; both dogs and children benefit from knowing exactly what their place is. 

However - suddenly changing the rules for an already anxious dog would cause a rise in anxiety and a much  greater risk of the dog biting someone, particularly a child.

I think Cracar is smart enough to know that either having a child bitten or taking a dog to be put down would be pretty horrific!

Thanks, theemx. This was what I was feeling and was starting to feel a bit stupid about posting as I didn't think I was putting it across properly. Thanks for understanding.

Harley, I meant she has did it before as in, a few weeks ago and as she got into such trouble for it, she stopped doing it.  Then the other day she just took it in her head to do it again.  I think it wasn't intentional at the dog, she just ran at the couch and then the dog jumped round.

Right at this moment, we are all sat on the sofa with said dog sleeping next to my daughter.  I will undoubtibly supervise all interactions and thank you all for your input.

PS Meant to add, we are still doing a little training with treats(dog and daughter) and they seem to be getting on better.  I think teaching the dog to trust her like my other kids or adults and teaching the child respect would work better.  She seems to have realised either after her fright or me having the 'talk' that dogs are not toys and have feelings too.  I have been pointing out ways to notice what the dogs are feeling too.  I think she just didn't understand(kid not dog) My mistake was still treating her like a baby when she is obviously maturing enough to be resposible for her actions.
Thanks again.

The point I was trying to make is that a child, however naughty, is too precious to be put at risk just because a dog might be upset at no longer being allowed on the sofa. If you allow a nervous dog on the sofa at one time, and then at another tell him off for doing the same thing it might make him very insecure, but that is not what I am suggesting. I love my dogs dearly, but part of that loving is making sure that they do no harm to anyone else. We all make mistakes, after 30 years owning a guarding breed I am still learning, but the least we can do is to learn by those mistakes. You obviously feel that what I have said is harsh, but experience has shown me that when a dog behaves in a certain way, it usually does it again, especially if it has succeeded in achieving its aim. Your dog has achieved its aim in repelling your daughter's "attack". So when, not if, your daughter "attacks" it again, it will do the same. The difference is, now you know it could happen, and you are putting your daughter's safety at risk for the pleasure of allowing a dog on the sofa.
I am sorry if this sounds nasty, you sound like a nice person,and I'm sure you love your daughter dearly, and your dog too. Sometimes, though,when a problem like this occurs there are no easy answers.

> you are putting your daughter's safety at risk for the pleasure of allowing a dog on the sofa.
>

I don't believe the dog being on the sofa is the problem. If the OP's daughter leaps on the dog when it's say in a dog bed or on a rug the dogs reaction may well be the same. As I understood it it was the sudden act of the daughter throwing herself at the unsuspecting dog that created the "bite". I say "bite" but feel it was more a snap at the shock of a small person leaping at it.

> If you allow a nervous dog on the sofa at one time, and then at another tell him off for doing the same thing it might make him very insecure

The OP has not said anything about the dog being allowed on the sofa one minute then being told off for being on it the next.

Maybea house line and pet corrector spray???? But not for the dog??!!

Only teasing. But I had to rehome a cocker who wasbeing teased in the same way but the youngest member of the household. Dog bit her at least 3 times I know of,how many times I'm unaware of I dread to think.Tough when you know dog not at fault and kiddie just being a kiddie. Think the training sessions together a good idea and maybe a little home agility course in the garden where you can supervise and try to monitor it so that the older children work with the nervous dog but the youngest with a dog that will work for her. If the dog can take it though I have my doubts if she moves out the way. Or maybe she could watch you teach the dog a few tricks? Soundslike your daughter is doing it for attention maybe so all you can do is work with it. My youngest son (14!!!) can be likethis so he now is at group training with 1 of ours and to be a distraction aid for others. Refocused him entirely but still can't shut him up!! Like mother like son!!!