We have a right not to be bitten, but we have a responsibility not to trigger a bite.

I agree, it seems more and more that the human race is digressing, not able to use it's own instincts, we seemed to be far more intelligent when I was a child, now we are babied and rapped up in cotton wool, some unable to think for themselves or take responsibility.

Not to mention the lawyer culture who seem to be hidden behind every tree, waiting to sue for things that we just took as accidents and life lessons when I was a child.

now we are babied and rapped up in cotton wool, some unable to think for themselves or take responsibility.

Agree totally. We are in a compensation society where it is far easier to blame everyone else for what happens in our own lives instead of accepting the blame and the responsibility for our own actions.

> it is far easier to blame everyone else for what happens in our own lives instead of accepting the blame

You can look at that both ways with this particular case.  It rather puts me in mind of the old days, the good old days, when victims of domestic violence were generally scrutinised to see if they "had got in his face" and therefore rather deserved it.

> It rather puts me in mind of the old days, the good old days, when victims of domestic violence were generally scrutinised to see if they "had got in his face" and therefore rather deserved it.

How on earth do you draw that comparision?

Fire can burn you, sharp things can cut you, high things can be fallen from, water can be drowned in, heavy things can crush you, animals can bite/peck/sting/scracth you, animals can be unpredictable etc.... all pretty much common sense.
Humans, especially those one is in a relationship with, are supposed to be humane to you.

Stooge, I can see why you blame the dog owner and not the woman, allthough I don't 100% agree, but I can not, for one minute, understand how people blaming the anchor woman - for shoving her face in a dogs face, can be compared to people who blame the victims of domestic violence 

> We humans are supposed to be the more intelligent species, after all

LOL - but this thread just shows how different we humans are and how we all interpret things differently :) I am sure that each contributor on here thinks that they have interpreted the way to 'meet and greet' dogs correctly :) :) :) As with a lot of things, the truth is possibly somewhere in the middle, but as we are all human we'll never agree exactly where :)

Perhaps we should just agree that something went wrong somewhere and vow to look at the way we treat such meetings :) Are we expecting too much of our own dogs, ourselves or other people ???? :) :) A time for reflection maybe ?? :) :)

> Perhaps we should just agree that something went wrong somewhere and vow to look at the way we treat such meetings

Good idea Daisy :)

For anybody not sure on how to stay safe when greeting dogs (not posters here, but we never know who else may be reading), here are some  links:
Tips for greeting a dog
Dogs don't like hugs & kisses (this is aimed at children, but the same applies with adults)
Signs of anxiety

In addition to these things helping us avoid getting bitten, we can use them all to help avoid other people getting bitten by our own dogs.

:)

What if it had been a parrot!  :-) 

I can't believe that in this day of age of Deed not Breed we are still coming back to the fact that it was a bull breed. Yes it is banned in several countries but so are lots of other breeds in various countries, but it doesn't make them inherantly dangerous. I know lots of jack russells and collies and dare i say it gundogs that would do the same put in such an awkward position and i bet some of them would make more damage. If a big dog like this wanted to it would bite her face off, but from the sounds of it (i haven't had a chance to see the tape) he only just caught her.
Dogs are living creatures and can behave out of character in unusual situations, you see it all the time where i work in the vets. If it was the first time this dog has behaved like this then how is the owner going to be able to read the situation and tell the presenter?!

Great articles, ML. :-)

I'm not sure what you mean by "this day of age of Deed not Breed".  Has this been officially adopted?  I have never thought it to be a good adage and this was a very good example of why not.
I can't really be good policy to wait for something bad to happen before doing anything proactive can it?

>how is the owner going to be able to read the situation

If he wants to own a dog like this then he really ought to set about learning.  Have you read the articles posted by HG. 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sophia-yin/kyle-dyer-dog-bite_b_1269565.html

This is interesting article about the story

Another very good article.

> If a big dog like this wanted to it would bite her face off, but from the sounds of it (i haven't had a chance to see the tape) he only just caught her.

Actually the reports are that  she has had 4 hours of surgery and 70 stitches in  her mouth and nose and is facing further surgery.

To be fair to the dog, he did bare his teeth before the attack and the damage may have been made worse by the presenter withdrawing (as you would, though far too late of course) and the handler pulling his dog away (again, as you would, but we are told that if a dog has a grip on another dog, pulling the second dog away will rip the skin and cause further damage)?

Stooge, i do not agree that his breed has anything to do with it. He is behaving like a dog. A yorkshire terrier would do the same if pushed like that, the only differnce is the size of his jawas and his strength. I think anyone who owns a bull breed would not like the insinuation that their dog is dangerous just because of their breed. The situation in which that dog was put was a totally alien situation after an immensly stressful even the day before. No one can say 100% what their dog would do in that situation unless they have been their becuase dogs are living creatures and can be unpredictable, hence why anyone in that situation should proceed with caution, whether its the owner, the presenter or the tv producers themselves.

> I think anyone who owns a bull breed would not like the insinuation that their dog is dangerous just because of their breed.

Mastifflover appears to accept that breed traits are to be considered.  I would say, though, I have not suggested that all mastiffs are the same, this breed appears to be rather more than just any old Mastiff, hence some authorities banning it.

>A yorkshire terrier would do the same if pushed like that

I would say could do the same.  Have you read HGs link?  This eminent trainer comments that this dog did not behaved as you should expect most dogs to.

> hence why anyone in that situation should proceed with caution

I would agree, we all need to take responsibility for our dogs, understand them and observe them.   Even more so when you have a breed that can do so very much harm in one bite.
I think as long as we do not recognise the potential of different breeds and handle them accordingly we risk all dogs on tighter and tighter restrictions.

> Mastifflover appears to accept that breed traits are to be considered

Yes, but I don't think this was down to the breed, the biggest factor in this case was stress. Not many dog will be able to go through the truama of being stuck in an icy lake, then only 12 hours later

> This eminent trainer comments that this dog did not behaved as you should expect most dogs to.

I don't agree with that trainer, it is exactly how dogs communicate with each other but dogs are quicker in their reaction than us and will move out of the way.
Buster has had a spaniel snap right at his face (I don't really know why, Buster was stood there nicely waiting to greet it, the loose dog put it's face in Busters face and then snapepd), Buster stepped backwards even before my eyes were registering what I was seeing. I had a pang of shock & panick, then I realiased that Buster wasn't taking it as a threat he was not nervous of unsettled by it, he just made sure not to get too close to the dog. That snap was very hard, IF it had connected with Busters face it would have done a lot of damage, but I don't think it was meant to. Just as I don't think the dog on the news intended to hurt the woman.

We need to teach our dogs bite force inhibition - why - because dog use their teeth for cominucation and play, they have to learn that we are not as 'strudy' as a dog. We do not teach them speed inhibition, they don't know we are slower to react to a warning than a dog would, we haven't taught them that.

I personally believe that the dog that bit the anchor woman did not intend to give a hard bite, but unfortunately & unintentionally the weight & speed caused the damage. That is as far as his breed made any difference. The bigger the dog, the bigger the risk for accidental injury.

This is not intended to try to excuse anybody or anything. I'm simply trying to explain why I think the dog was displaying a 'normal' behaviour. If the dog was much smaller, deliverered excatly the same reaction, with exactly the same force it would not have had the weight behind it to the same damage.

> I don't agree with that trainer

Fair enough :) but I think he has got it pretty much as I saw the thing.

To deviate slightly. Have just go back from the vets, a young mother there with her 4/5 year old daughter who was running around shaking her jacket in the faces of the waiting dogs. Lucas began to find it stressful in a place that he's not that keen on & eventually as she ran at him again I asked the mother if her daughter could give him some space or leave him alone. Filthy look given & nothing said, so the daughter returned to heavily patting & tightly hugging (with her face pushing into their pups & crawling after it under the seats) their 4 month old Huskita. A disaster waiting to happen & it won't be the dogs fault.

Yes I know of a dog at the vet who had a strange child come and give him an unexpected cuddle he reacted and scratched her face. The parents of the child took action saying the dog was dangerous and now the dog after some weeks of police deliberation has an order against him and has to wear a muzzle.H ewas alarge breed dog who had never shown any agression before
Riddiculous the dog was in pain from athritis and then this happens. who is being punished ? not the idiot parents

When Nando was a tiny pup (about 3/4 months old) a child was petting him too heavily. His excited reaction at the time was always to mouth constantly, or pull on your legs. He still occasionally mouths me but because of bite inhibition it is completely painless! When I warned the parents that he was nippy and had teeth like needles because of his age, she said 'Oh, it will be his own fault if he gets nipped.'

Low and behold, when he did get nipped, despite me asking the parents of the child to stop him tormenting Nando, I got a snotty look and some tutting from the boys parents!