Since we've gotten our lab at 2 month old (now just over a year), he's spent all of his alone time in a crate. Everyone has told me that this is the best thing for him because there's no way he can get into any trouble. Since he has a penchant for being naughty when he's bored or wants attention, does anyone think that he will ever be able to be left alone without being in his crate? He's never in there for more than eight hours, but I still feel guilty about it and hope that one day we can let him have free run over the house. I'm just scared to give it a test run one day and come home to find the house in shambles! Any one else in the same situation or have ideas?

How often is he in the crate for 8 hours ?
i eventually want to use a crate but more for when he is naughty and needs to calm down i think
Luckily he hasnt been destructive or eaten any furniture and I too want him to have free run of the house when he is older .
Have you tried leaving him out of the crate at all - and how does he act ?
What about if you are in a different room - how is he then ?
Lel

He usually spends around seven or eight hours in the crate while we are at work every day. Used to have someone come to walk him during lunch when he was a puppy, but can't really afford that now that it isn't so necessary. Of course he's SO EXCITED to see us when we get home, and we anticipate this and make sure to take him on a nice long walk or a run when we get home, and after dinner he usually calms down nicely to chew a bone. Whenever he's out of his crate, there's someone there to usually keep an eye on him because he's been known to do some naughty things like chew wallets or get into the garbage and make a mess.

This is the problem with using a crate, (and incidentally with keeping a puppy on the lead). It gets harder and harder to take the chance! But take the chance you must sooner or later.

I would set out to "Train" it. Put him in the crate but leave the door open then go out. Listen at the door, a quick check at the window then back indoors. If all has gone well, try a little longer the next time and gradually work your way up. I would not just one day leave the crate open and go out for six hours! Get him use to the idea first, get it to be "Old Hat" rather than something new and exciting.

Regards, John

I agree with John . Even if you are just in the next room - see how he reacts . Dont give in if he cries , but dont leave him too long either . Make sure that as much as possible that is destroyable or chewable is removed . Leave him with plenty of fun toys . Give him lots of praise when you return .
I want to use a crate so he has his own space but I dont really want to shut the door on it . Am i defeating the object ?
lel

Have to agree with john, this is what i did with ebbie, she had a crate when she was a pup, once she had settled in after a couple of months, i started to leave the crate open at night, i would hear what she got up to, once i knew she could be trusted, it was left open when i went out - she doesn't have a crate now, but the new pup will be in one till i can be sure to trust them

Nikki xx

Im sorry but if this dog is in a cage for 8 hours you should be ashamed of yourself its a disgrace,I cant beleive that this is on here you shouldnt have a dog at all why do you want a dog?
imagine being caged all day must me a nightmare

hi mattie,
could not agree more, was horrified to think that poor dog was left in a crate for eight hours,that is down right cruelty, i use crates as a means of house training young pups or for there own safety if i am out, for no longer than two hours.
regards tina

thankyou someone like minded Im grateful im gutted at this thread

goodness me:( I have just read this, 8 hours a day is far too much to leave a dog in a crate:( All my dogs have their own crates, but the doors are left open , so they are their dens which they can go in and out of at will - I shut the doors when I feed, so nobody nicks anyone elses, and then I know who had eaten and who is off their feed etc, I do shut them in when I pop out quickly for a max of an hour to two (mainly picking the kids up at school - I have no life:D) at a time. If I'm, going out for longer they are free range (so to speak :D) are tend to stay in their cages in anycase. At night we leave the dining room open and they still stay in there, we have a stairgate up, so we dont suddenly get pounded on in the middle of the night. So I personally shut mine in sometimes, but never for extended periods of time:( , John is giving you very good advice - so I wont repeat for the sake of it :D oooh not like me! I personally use crates in the car as well , so my lot view them as their beds:) They should be used sensibly and not as a prison. I'm sure you havent deliberately set out to do this, but locking a lab away is not the answer for good behaviour, he will be 100 times worse on release:( I think you have had bad advice on crate use to start with, I would follow Johns suggestions :) - Julie:)

in a word Lel, yes! A dog can have his own space without having a crate and if that is what you want then any dog bed in the corner well do for that.

You could use a crate with the door open at a time such as this when you dont need it, purely to get your dog use to it, pushing the door up occasionally to get him use to being closed in then if at any time it was needed you already have a dog who is confident in a crate.

Regards, John

Why the heck would anyone crate a dog for 8 hours its awful can you wait eight hours to go to the toilet??? no im sure not I ask again why have a dog?

Mattie, I can sleep from 11.00pm till 10.00am (11 hours) without going to the toilet, and so does my dog. Maybe not ideal being in a crate for so long, but certainly not as distressing as you may think.

I ask you though where is the dog at night is he in a crate as well and incidently do you never get up in the night for a visit ? or at least you can if you want. emphasis on choice here. and I believe we are talking about a lab one of the most energetic dogs around...sorry nothing will aleter my feelings on this

very lucky to be able to sleep so long dave

After two kids I get up at least twice, and am amazed that the dogs can hang on so long. If I ever have an accident grom one of the dogs because I am out too long, I certainlky won't give the poor dog a hard time!

Sorry, I have to agree with Mattie on this one. Shirl :-(

Same here, I hate crates and would only ever use one in an emergency.
A labrador is an active dog and needs mental as well as physical stimulation, not to be shut away for most of it's life. I wonder how many of those who are saying it's ok would be prepared to try being shut in a cage for this length of time each day for a month ??? Ingrid

Non ingrid thats my guess crates have their uses but not like this this poor dog has no life

Of course my dog has a life, don't be silly. I think that you'll find that most lab owners complain of digging, chewing, and barking because although their dogs may not spend time in a crate, this doesn't mean that they properly exercise their dog. My dog does none of these things because he's usually too tired from playing fetch. Four long walks a day and several park trips a week with PLENTY of running is enough to tire out my active dog. When he's not in his crate during the day (on weekends or when I'm home from work), he spends all afternoon sleeping anyway because he's grown used to it. He comes alive at dinner time when he's learned to expect us and that's when he gets to run around all that he wants until all he wants to do is eat dinner and rest. Shame on you people for attacking a situation simply because it's different than yours. I am truly offended by the notion that I am in some way harming my dog, and I have never heard such an opinion from any trainer or behaviourist I've spoken to.

i agree with mattie too, i have never used a crate, and although i know there are some of you that do, i do not disagree with them, but by using them are you not just putting off what is going to happen anyway, yes maybe they dont 'wet the bed' or chew the furniture, but what happens when the time comes for you to decide they can be trusted out of the crate and left alone in the house, havoc i think. blade my lab is 7months is now fully house trained, night and day, he is left for a max of 4 hours a day in the dining room, oh and yes he has chewed my kitchen chairs, burt hey i wanted a pup, we all know what pups do, so it is something we tolerate, its how he learns, from doing something wrong.
But back to the real point 8 hours a day is way to long and i suppose he is in it all night too.sad

It doesn't work like that Cazmar they don't sit around in the cage waiting for the day they can get out and get their revenge!!! :) It works because whenever you are around they are out of the cage with you watching them and guiding them against chewing the wrong things etc a combination of this education and simply growing up means that usually be about 18 months the cage can be dispensed with. I have never had any damage to my house and I have only ever used them during the first years or so or when visiting etc. Having said that they have only been used at night or for the occasional half day and generally much less, the thought of any dog let along a lively youngster in one for 8 hours in addition to the night is quite appaling in my view but then I can barely contemplate a youngster being alone for 8 hours a day.

Im with Mattie on this.
My Border Collie wreaked parts of my house when he was 6 months but did I crate him no I didn't I chose to get a pup.
My Lab is 3 years she will trash the bin given half the chance but she is not crated.
I dislike crates as like mattie being involved with lab rescue I have seen some nasty uses of crates.

This is not aimed at those who use crates the correct way even so I still dislike them.

Karen

First of all, the crate is large enough that he can stand up and turn around, which I have ALWAYS been told is the proper way to keep a dog when he can't be in your sight or trusted to be left on his own. Second of all, my dog is VERY well taken care of -- he gets plenty of walks (at least four every day) and is taken to the park to run at least three or four times a week, which I know is much more than most people care to spend time with their dogs. Believe it or not, he actually likes his crate and will go in there with no prompting on our part. According the trainers I've spoken to, the dog views the crate as his own personal space and he goes in there often. I am aware that labs are energetic dogs, but he receives a great deal of exercise. It is not as appalling as it sounds, believe me.

Unfortunately, people like Mattie who work with rescued dogs have seen far too many cases of dogs being "stir crazy" from misuse of a crate. And however well cared for your dog is, no-one would recommend leaving a dog for 8 hours straight in a crate. As a guide Barjo Engineering, who make crates, recommend 4 to 5 hours maximum.
I really would try to get your dog out of the crate during the daytime as soon as possible.
LynnT

I understand how Mattie must view some horrific scenes from abusive owners, but even she must realize that there is quite a difference between an extremely well-taken care of, very loved dog who happens to spend his afternoons in a large crate (we're not talking the travel-sized kind here) and the mistreated dogs who are "stir-crazy." My dog is definitely not stir-crazy. He's just as energetic as any dog, and we certainly understand that, which is why I give him just about every other minute of my free time making sure that he is properly exercised to his heart's content. We also spend 30 minutes or so a day reviewing his commands, and although he's has his behavioural moments of shame (don't they all?), he's a pretty well-behaved dog who interacts extremely well with people, children, and other dogs. Sorry if I'm getting so defensive here everyone, but I just can't take the thought of being labeled an animal abuser. That has to be one of the worst traits in the world.

Do you have a safe room where you can lock up your dog, instead of the crate all day? Doing this in stages and building up the time your dog is free is a good idea.

There was a time when I had to spend 10 hour days during the work week away from home. I had four dogs in the house and they kept each other company. They had access to the kitchen and a small sitting room (sofas covered with cheap washable covers!) and never did any damage, even though the youngest was 8 months at the time. There were also no exposed electrics or anything that could harm them. However, they had access to a secure outdoor run through dog flaps.

Is there any possibility you could do the same?

Stacey

Of course a dog can wait eight hours to go the bathroom over night. He gets his last walk at 10pm and is taken out first thing at 6 am. I do not find this to be distressing on him; in fact, he waits quite patiently.

Hi,

Just a thought on this - you leave him 8 hours ina crate during the day - right?

where does he go at night? is he in the crate again for another 8 hours? because he cant be trusted?

so your dog spends 16 hours out of every 24 in a crate that is only large enough for him to turn around in??? Does this not seem a little cruel toyou? At least built hima kennel and run in your garden for him to be in during the day if you dont want him to do something wrong... and how is he to learn that what he is doing is wrong if he is never allowed to learn?

Am sorry but think this is terrible!

I have a crate in the kitchen, and my dogs have never been shut in it at home, but it means I can shut them in a crate in someones car, a hotel, and at shows. They pick the crate over the dog beds every time.

I do hope that the 8 hours is through the night, and not through the day??? I don't think a dog should be shut in a crate for the majority of a day, night time being the exception.

I would try him for periods with the crate open, and see how he goes. Thsi could be at night, when he is geared to sleeping rather than mischief making.

I know that we all have different ways of trying to do the best for our dogs but personally I don't think I could cope with the thought of my dog being so restricted for all those hours at a time. In fact I think I would prefer to imagine him having a good old chew on the furniture ! :)

Don't get me wrong, I have always used crates and found them very useful but I just wouldn't feel happy enclosing a dog for so long during the day.

JMHO

Joyce

I think i can see Crazy's points as well as Matties. I am going to keep stay netural on this point but i think all comments on this thread need to be taken into consideration, i think your dog is now at the age where you can practice leaving him at homes for short periods initially as john suggests, see how that goes im sure he will be good enough!

Regards

Mark

I don't think a crate is supposed to be used to contain a grown dog all day, I thought a crate was to help housetrain them.

I couldn't bring myself to use a crate when I had my pup so I bought a puppy pen so she was still contained but had a little more room, and as she grew it was made bigger, but as soon as she was housetrained it was taken away. I felt cruel locking her in the pen like a wild animal, but I have to admit it really worked. I can't imagine locking a big dog in a crate for most of the day it must be awful for the poor thing.

Only just caught this thread! I have used cages but not for keeping any of my dogs in when I was out! I would never think to put any of my dogs in one for 8hrs. All my 9 dogs are house trained except for the youngest 2 who still will pick anything up that I`ve left around but those 2 have never been in a cage at home.
Christine, Spain.

I am appalled that someone actually leaves a dog in a crate for 8 hours whilst they are at work...we work but are at home for an hour at lunch every day and he is never left for more than 4 hours...AND EVEN THEN NOT IN CRATE!!
He does not have full run of house but has the whole kitchen with lots of toys, fresh water and safety.
I hate crates and don't even agree with the idea of using them for training..if you are not prepared to clean up mess in the first few months, and move expensive furnishings etc DON'T GET A DOG!
GET A BLINKING GOLD FISH!

I don't want to be critical, but if your lab is in the crate for 8 hours in the day and 8 hours at night, when is he getting the 4 long walks?
I feel mean if I go out for more than 4 hours and leave Thistle alone in the house and she's got the free run of a couple of rooms. I'm sure you don't think you're being horrid to your dog, but I'm afraid you are and it's not just my opinion, I can't believe anyone would think it's OK. I don't want to upset you, but you need to do all you can to get the dog out of that crate and go back to getting someone in to walk it during the day. It is still necessary.
Jane

Crazydog !

>Since we've gotten our lab at 2 month old (now just over a year), he's spent all of his alone time in a crate. Everyone has told me that this is the best thing for him because there's no way he can get into any trouble. Since he has a penchant for being naughty when he's bored or wants attention, does anyone think that he will ever be able to be left alone without being in his crate? H <

You wrote this not me !! when did you say he got out four times a day?
I do not approve of the way you keep your dog and that is it as far as Im concerned.
If you asked me for a lab I wouldnt give one to live in such crcumstances I would however consider an Outside comfy kennel with large free run on the side prefferable any day to a cage indoors with no company if I had to.
You have to ralise that when you come on here asking opinions you have to be prepared for them and this is mine and I feel qualified to give one having been in Labradors 20 odd years and Lab welfare for ten

sorry been thinking about this further this morning...it has really wound me up!
Crazydog (CRAZY PERSON if you ask me), but why not just answer the question we are all burning to ask....why on earth have you got a dog??

so who is walking it 4 times a day? you did not even mention that on the first post!

My Mini Schnauzer is considered part of the family not a figurine to look cute for visitors - that is why caging him up is out of the question...my home is his home.

It is barbaric!

God reading this made me want to cry, that poor poor dog. It would be better off in a dogs home.
To think I feel guilty leaving my dog for 2 hours with the run of the downstairs. Why on earth would this person want a dog at all. And to justify it by saying that the dog can turn around in its CAGE, well thats alright then. What about being able to be a dog, to have company, to snuggle on a soft chair, to poke their noses into things, to look out of the window. I am realistic, people work, I WORK but for gods sake this is just an awful way to treat a dog.

I am walking him four times a day -- a long walk in the morning before I leave, one when I return, another after dinner, and another around 10 pm. This does not count the many days that we go to the park when I get home so that he can run his heart out off the lead for an hour or two.

Crazydog did you tell the breeder that you worked all day.
If so I can't believe they sold you the pup.
I use crates but for a max of 2 hours if I go out, 8 hours is much too long.
If your dog then sleeps in the crate at night, say another 8 hours, then he only has 8 hours out of a crate each day. I'm sorry but that is not on.

HE DOESN'T SLEEP IN THE CRATE ALL NIGHT!!!!!!!!!!
I'm sorry, there's no need for me to shout, but I am not a monster

ok - so he is not in his crate at night - and you trust him to be there without the gate shut, even though you are upstairs - and dogs dont sleep the whole night through all the time - why then do you niot trusthim out of his crate during the day?

Why dont you have someone come and walk him at lunchtime - i am afraid that this is still necessary even if he isn't still a pup!

And you came on here asking advice on whether we thought it ok to leave a dog in a crate all day, and we have all said no - and so now you dont want our advoce? i dont understand this i am sorry...

He does not spend 8 hours at night sleeping in his crate. He either sleeps with us in the bedroom or he sleeps in his crate with the door open -- his choice (and he tends to favour the crate, I have to add). Perhaps I should add that the 8 hours a day are not 5 days a week -- only 3.

I don't care what anyone here says about this. I know that my dog is very well taken care of and receives enough attention and exercise.

Anyone leaving a dog in a crate on a regular basis for 8 hours at a time, is IMNSHO, not fit to be a dog owner!

No ifs, buts, or maybes. It is unnecessary! If you can't get a dog and know in advance that you can spend time with it then don't get a dog, simple as that! A dog is not a necessity it is a sentient being who should be treated as such.

This is something I feel strongly about - if your dog is going to wreck your home then spend time with it and teach it what you consider to be right from wrong - if you don't give it the opportunity to explore and experiment, and simply be a puppy then how is it going to learn to be a well balanced, well behaved member of the family?

What is the difference between those breeders who keep their breeding bitches in cages for most of their lives where they can only lie and turn around and who we all presumably deplore and an owner who does the same?

Christine

Well i think the only options are get rid of your cage or rehome your dog to a loving family who have got the time to look after your dog. Why did u have him if you were working that long? Im not having a go as such as you have at least come on this site to enquire. But always get a second opinion if worried. Cant a neighbour go in your home and take him out while you are at work? My mum works part time, only a couple of hours a day, and i have my mums dog round my house, just so she dont get bored.

You've gotten to this post a little late. We've already resolved the situation, and the dog no longer stays in the kennel anymore. We leave him out of the kennel and have hired someone to check in on him during lunch time. So far, he's doing great. If you want to know more, there is a new post under the General Board that's titled "Home Alone Now."