There was me worrying about a wee lump !

We were just driving back from the local shop when I heard him scrabble about on the hammock in the back seat, at first i thought he was just scratching to make himself a nest but when I glanced back i could see he was flat out on his side with his legs poker straight. It only lasted for about a minute and he seems fine now, no disorientation or staggering, he was pretty slow walking into the house ( understandably ) he drooled a lot too, I now realise he must have had one last Sunday when he was in the car, as when i got back to it he was drooling which is unheard off for him.

He'll be in at the vets ASAP tomorrow, seems I'll have something else to worry about now.

Poor you, hope the vet's appointment goes well.

fingers crossed for you both .

Oh dear!

Both times in the car too, fingers crossed for him, hope he is ok.

Oh dear poor boy.  Sending best wishes and hope you get things sorted tomorrow x

I've been googling like mad and it seems it could be anything from an electrolyte imbalance to a tumour...heyho, here we go again.

Will be thinking of you tomorrow Celli and fingers crossed too.

I expect you've been through all possible options but is it possible he could've picked something up?

Hope he's ok.

It's not an impossibility that he's picked something up, but he's not normally a scavenger.
I'm just pinning my hopes onto the fact the fit was very short and he was fine within 10 mins after.

Oh, what a shock for you.

Wishing you luck at the vets tomorrow. 

Celli
Just sending positive vibes for your trip to the vet tomorrow.
I have a bitch that had to be put on phenobarb in the end, but I have to say that she does so well on it.  Please don't worry too much (easy to say when I was distraught with mine!) 

Positive vibes from me too - just because he's had an 'episode' or possibly two may mean nothing in the long run.... an ex-neighbour of mine was truly beside herself when her rescue dog had a seizure out of the blue, she was so worried she didn't sleep for two nights in case he had another, but her vet reassured her it might never happen again and to my knowledge it didn't.

Och i know, my friends BT had quite a dramatic seizure once when we were out on a walk, he even stopped breathing, but he only had the one and is still tootling along at 14, but it's my Spuddy, he's always been that bit extra special to me as i bred him myself and i lost his mum to cancer at age 6, he's 10 now which is probably an average age for them to get to.

I'm wondering if I should take a urine sample in with me this afternoon.

sorry for being such a pessimist, it just seems a bit much after losing Ben so recently.

I will keep fingers and 16 paws crossed for you and Spuddy. Whilst they are all special, the ones you bred yourself you have a soft spot for.

I always take a sample with me, it's part of the jigsaw of information then if it's not required it can go in the bin- I would hate to be mugged after a vets visit!!
Good Luck and let us know how you get on :)

He had another fit on the way to the vets ( car again ) and then another in the vets, which at least meant she could see it happening, both times very short and then he comes out of it really quickly with no lingering signs. the only reason i can think of for the car is that he becomes agitated before going in the car, and again at the vets he gets very stressed.

He's on Diazapam in the mean time, rather than anything else, until we get blood results back, it's obviously having an effect as he's trawling the house for stuff to eat.

I've already said to the vet that if the bloods come back clear I would prefer to treat him for his symptoms rather than sending him off for MRI and what ever else, if they found a brain tumour I wouldn't put him through the surgery so there's not much point.

I hope it is just a metabolic imbalance which can be corrected, it is rare to have so many seizures in such a short spell when there has been nothing before.

The car trips are probably making him anxious about what happened the previous time and going to the vets at the end of the trip hasn't helped.

My Mum's dachsie has been having seizures since she was diagnosed with a liver shunt at 8 months old, she will be 9 in May and they are so rare,3 or 4 times a year, she has never needed meds, her trigger is getting over excited.

How long before you get the results back?

If he has Epileptic fits then try not to worry as one of my dogs has them, or should i say he did as they are under control now as he's taking tablets twice a day.

Hi,

Our Yorkie used to have fits (he was epileptic) and he too would get them sometimes after a car journey, but usually when something caused him too much excitement or too much anxiety. After a few months we were able to spot the signs and then could prepare by dimming the lights and remaining quite calm which usually brought him out of it pretty quickly.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, a friend's staff had a spate of about 4 in one week. It turned out he had been throwing up and eating it again, unbeknownst to his owner, which made him dehydrated. The vet prescribed some electrolyte tablets that dissolved in his water bowl for a few days to combat the imbalance and he hasn't had one since.

Hope you get to the bottom of it- it's a very distressing problem to have as it's something so visually terrifying.

Thinking of you and spud.

We might get results back tomorrow, but i would think the following day would be more likely.

Spuds 10, so he won't have true epilepsy, he has been drinking a lot which i've just noticed today, I've been having to fill the bowl more than usual and he's been occasionally  needing out for a wee in the middle of the night for the past 2 weeks, which isn't normal for him.
I think I'm just clutching at straws, the thought of being without him is making me feel sick :-(

The meds might be making him drink more but could they do a test on his kidneys? I'd be a little concerned that having fits at this age might indicate something going on with his organs.

> The meds might be making him drink more but could they do a test on his kidneys?

From the OP's earlier post it seems he's having bloods done, which should show up any kidney issues.

That's true, thank you MsT lol

I'm banking on there being something up with his organs, or a tumour on his brain, I've fully prepared myself for the worst so nothing will be a shock.

He seems to be doing well on the Diazapam, he's a bit sleepy for about an hour after i've given him one, he's now come too after his morning dose, had a pan fried lamb heart and is shouting at me to play with him lol.

Just got the results back and ( drum roll)......nothing, completely normal, full blood and urine work up and not a sausage, which, the vet assures me is good news, as one, it gives us a wide range of drugs to choose from, and two, the chances are it's a brain tumour in which case he could possibly go on for years ( or not ) and finally three, it may be he's had a small brain bleed and he'll have no more fits.

So bit more hopeful than I was but still guarded, the plan of action is he'll be kept on the Diazapam until Monday when he'll be reassessed and possibly have him drug free to see what happens.

Thanks to everyone for the support, it really makes a difference  xx

OH WOW!  :-)  :-)  :-)

Bet you can't stop smiling.  Let us know how things go without the meds.  Love him while he's still with you.  :-)  :-)

So pleased for you both, good news.

great news!

Thanks for the update.

Here's hoping it was just an episode that won't happen again.

Keep us posted.

Keeping my fingers crossed for your lovely boy and hoping he is lucky but I think the fact that he's had 3 in a relatively short period would indicate, to me, that there are probably more to come tbh. I say this as an owner of a 13.5 year old dog who had 26 fits between the ages of 3-6 yrs but thankfully none in the last 7 years (tho' still on meds just in case) and also own a 5 yr old who has had over 60 fits in the last 18 months. 

I'm thinking the same marisa, but even if he does have more fits they can be controlled, and he might still have a reasonable time left, so I'm still grinning from ear to ear, for now.

Tbh you won't know if they can be controlled until you are a lot further down the road. We thought we were managing ok with 'just' 3 fits every month or so but, a year later, they escalated to cluster fits of 7-8 fits in 36 hours.

Ok, thats useful to know, tbh, if I get another year out of him I'll still be happy.

Another fit this afternoon, in the car again, and about 2 hrs after he'd had a diazapam, spoke to the other vet about it and he wants to do a blood pressure test which can be done with me there, he said the dose of Diazapam he was on was the lowest it could be so he suggested up'ing it to 10mg, but not tomorrow as that can effect the blood pressure test.
He also mentioned another patient he has, an 11 yr old Boxer who started fitting at 11, he's on Phenobarbitone ( I think ) and has been great on it, no fits at all.

Why can't I have straight forward dogs ! ?

Celli

My beloved girl is on Phenobarbitone too.  Her fits started very short lasting, and 6-8 weeks apart.  Until she had one that frightened the hell out of me, and I asked for medication.  All went well for months, and I was over the moon.  Until she had two only 24 hours apart.  (In case this should happen again, I have been given a tube of Diazapam to shoot up her bum if it is really bad.)

Naturally phenobarb slows you down and induces feelings of euphoria (could do with some of that myself!) so my girl had put on quite a lot of weight.  So her dose needed upping.  We blood tested again, and I have reduced her food yet again.  I honestly don't see how I could give her less food.  But she has gone almost a year now, and is such a happy little pudding.  :-)

Hope you can get it under control hopefully a change in medication will do that :-)

The vet did mention the weight gain, well, I'll be delighted with a wee fat puddin' if it means having him for a bit longer, it'll just give me more of him to cuddle.

I'm wondering with the vet wanting to test his blood pressure, if he's thinking high blood pressure is setting the fits off, this happened with my cat Polly last year, she'd had a fit/stroke which left her very debilitated for a good two weeks, the same vet put her on heart tablets and she's been like a new cat since.

Very sorry to hear about the fit. If you can, try and get him on the phenobarb (Epiphen) rather than the Valium. We started with Epiphen and Libromide (Genitrix) and managed for about 16 months. Then he had 8 fits in 36 hours in Nov followed by 7 fits in 36 hours from Boxing Day morning. After the Nov bout my new vet (we moved at the end of July) added Valium to the mix and he has been very bad on his back legs ever since - it has really affected his quality of life as he can barely stand up, wobbles when he moves and is so knackered and unbalanced that he will often try to eat lying down. We have the rectal Valium to try and stop subsequent fits but even that is not working now. We started seeing a chiropractor in Nov and when she learned in January that he was still on 10mg of Valium a day she was shocked and said it should only really have been given for a week or so and then reduced. I saw the vet and she reluctantly agreed we could go down to 5mg a day but both the chiro and a friend who works with people on Valium say it is still too high. The chiro said she treats (human) male patients who are on far less Valium than my dog!! We have also tried Keppra and Gabapentin (human drugs) to no effect, after seeing the specialist at Chestergates (£2,500 for the day). He had acupuncture as well but no improvement. We are now on a raw food diet and, fingers crossed, he was been fit-free since Dec 28th (he was hospitalised b/w Dec 26-Dec 28 to try and stop him fitting).

Be very careful with his weight as well - despite our best efforts Tag has gone from 19kgs to 31kgs. He has been so ravenous for food that he has chewed through the 15kg sacks of food which have the waxy material that is really hard to open. It's a vicious circle - he can't exercise as much because he is so dopey and unsteady but if we cut his food back too much we have heard it can trigger fits. Our chiro has been great and is looking at getting us all together (her, the vet and us) to discuss what to do next if we can keep him fit-free. I do not know what the future holds - and I often just sit and cry about the whole situation - but we are doing our best for him and keeping our fingers firmly crossed. He's only 5, came from Dogs Trust and had 6 homes before he was a year old. He is a stunning dog who had a very short but brilliant obedience career and is the nicest natured boy in the world.  

> We started with Epiphen and Libromide (Genitrix) and managed for about 16 months.

Marisa, sometimes adding Vivitonin to the other meds works. Its main role is to improve blood flow to the brain, amongst other organs. But it also seems to have a damping down effect on fitting and is sometimes recommended by neurologists for dogs with epilepsy, especially if they've got into damaging clusters.

Oh marisa I'm so sorry, that's heartbreaking, poor lad, I very much hope there's a solution out there for him x

Thanks for the info, I do like to go into the vets armed with information, even though i'm sure it must make them roll their eyes.

Thanks for that Esme, I will ask my vet if we can give it to Tag (off to see if it is prescription only now).

Have just googled it, and it is pom so will ring vet in the morning to discuss. Thanks again.

Spuds blood pressure checked out fine, Angus also had a look at the back of his eyes which were also fine. So he's now on Epiphen ? for 2 weeks and then get his bloods done again.

this time he didn't have a fit in the car or the vets, but today it was a morning journey and it wasn't sunny, previously the fits have all taken place in the afternoon and in sunny weather, the other difference is that for safety's sake he went in the boot on a big soft bed so he could thrash about if he fitted without hurting himself, my car has blacked out windows in the back and the boot is very big and deep, so possibly the bright light is triggering the fits, who knows, it's a bizarre one thats for sure.

>So he's now on Epiphen

Thumbs up!  I hope he does as well on it as my girl.  Whether you are given epiphen or phenobarb, it's the same thing. 

I have my fingers x'd here, hoping that you will see an improvement.  :-)

Thanks jean, he's a very fit old man, like most men he thinks he's still a teenager lol, so hopefully we'll be together for a wee while yet.

Celli you might find if Spud is put on PB he might be unsteady whist his body gets used to the dose, this happened to my male who walked round like a drunk for a fortnight but after that he was pretty good for a while (he had fits due to a benign brain tumour).

Celli, I just want to mention about the sunlight - you could be right and that's the trigger!

Although I don't have epilepsy and flashing or strobe lights, don't affect me - I do have a strange thing that makes me go 'funny' I feel ' juddery' feel weak, a bit panicky and as if something is about to happen......in winter sunlight or when the sun is low especially in the mornings, in the car ( passenger side ) I have to shut my eyes tightly and turn my head away from the sunlight flashing quickly through the trees - makes me feel VERY strange! The flashing has to be on my left side....I have never tried to ride it out to see what happens .....

The vet did mention he might stagger about a bit, he's a clumsy oaf at the best of times ( Spud, not the vet )

It is very strange how it's so specific when he has a fit, I can't see that it's the car itself setting them off, and where he was on the back seat when he had the fits, he could still see out the front windscreen and front passenger windows, the rest of the windows have blacked out glass.
Although I'm dreading the next fit, it'll also be interesting to see the circumstances when it occurs.

With Alfie, it seemed to be when he got too excited that he would fit.  Does Spud get very excited in the car, knowing he is going out...or conversely tired after being out? 
.
Alfies fits tended to be later in the evening /overnight/  We found that if he played with his ball/frisbee (cause of INTENSE excitement!) it would be inclined to set one off.  Or if he was simply on a long walk and got too tired.  We kept glucose tablets and would give these to him.  The vet had queried exercise induced collapse and he went to the Dick Vet college in Edinburgh for various tests but they never really found out what caused them definately - we just learnt to reduce the risk factors.  e.g walks on beach would be virtually guaranteed to give him a fit that evening.  But yet his bloods/urine etc have all been tested withing 10 mins of a fit and they all came back fine.  

Hope you get to the bottom of it.

That's the funny thing, he can run up the garden with Daisy shoulder barging and rarr-rarring, bark his head off at Fenn next door, and be completely fine, most of the fits have happened before a walk, but he's very calm in the car, the only time he gets worked up is when we actually arrive at a walk, and even then it's only if we haven't been on that particular walk for a while. The fit's have happened from anywhere between a few minuets from setting off, to an hour.

I had a rough collie who started fitting at 7yrs he had a scan and we found that he had fluid on the brain apparently rare which caused the fits.. he was given phenobarb and vivitonin , once we got the dose right he only ever had the odd fit which could be years apart.... I would notice when he was about to fit in the early days as he would stare and his ears would twitch so I had minutes to get him into a dark room and make sure he couldnt hurt himself, exessive drinking after a fit is common.
Once the meds were at the right dose for him he had a good long life and we lost him to old age at 15.5 years..

I sincerely hope you get this sorted soon. Good Luck.

R~

>most of the fits have happened before a walk

My bitch has never had a fit brought on due to excitement or exercise.  It has always happened at rest.