has anyone else had this situation,my bassett had a c section she had 6 pups day after she gave birth to another pup which was alive took her back down to the vets they did an x ray only to find they had left another in when she gave birth to that one it was still born
as you can imagine i am livid

Someone else on this board had the same problem but I cannot remember who it was. I would be extremely mad as you  should rightly be. I hope you will be having strong words at the least.

we are going to take them to court
at the end of the day we have lost a pup and the possibility of losing chloe
they can come out with an excuse for one pup left in which has no excuse but 2 to is unthinkable

This happened to a freind of mien (now decesed a few years ago) as with your case the remaining pup was born alive.  I would be livid especially with two.

how awful.  I know that it isnt the same, but it is sort off. years ago i had a dog to in to be neutered. they left in one testical!  He had to go back to have the remaining one taken out!

I know that it isnt the same, but it is sort off. years ago i had a dog to in to be neutered. they left in one testical!  He had to go back to have the remaining one taken out!

Good grief could they not count to two?

twood apear not! when i asked what happened they said oh he must have taken a phone call!

Would be amusing if it weren't so appallingly slack practice.

It must have been traumatic having to have a c section, but then for them to leave behind two pups just is not good enough. And their attitude stinks. Definitely sue and also report them to BVA/ MRCVS.
Hope everything goes well from now on, and glad your girl has come through well, no thanks to the stupid vet.

Wow, I would have been utterly furious, you should definitely sue, report them, and generally kick up a huge fuss, your poor girl! And the lost puppy!! :-(

Thats appalling. I hope they didn't charge you.  This needs to be reported.  I hope your dog is ok and the other pups thrive.

The RCVS have a complaints department, if you wish to log a complaint against a vet, vet nurse or a veterinary practice. The do have a web site.

>as you can imagine i am livid

I would be spitting feathers.  I would be reporting with the intention of having the surgeon struck off.  There is no excuse for incompetence.  I know of vets struck off for less, and I would be pushing for it all the way.

How does a C section work?  Is it just a visual check, do they feel around or do they scan too?  It seems astonishing that the vet could miss two puppies.

There doesn't have to be a scan.  All my bitches that have needed sections, have gone straight in for surgery.  I can always tell if something is not quite right, and with inertia I don't see the point in waiting around.  Over the years I have learned to recognise inertia pretty early on.

If I think it is malpresentation I ask for an x-ray or scan, and won't let them jump in with oxytocin until I know what we're dealing with.  I feel that I am paying for it, so expect to be involved in decision making, but, to be fair I feel that there are times that we know better than the vet when it comes to knowing our own girls.  Like the vet who told me that my bitch had finished - she was a first time whelper and had inertia.  Oxytocin produced pups , she needed 2 jabs - the most they should give. I insisted there was a pup left.  The vet told me that I was wrong, it was the spleen.  I argued and insisted on a scan.  As soon as I pointed out the heartbeat, he agreed to move fast!

But even with an inexperienced breeder - who lets the vet decide what to do, they should expect a vet to produced as many live pups as possible - which they insist on at the hospital I use.  I have only ever had a dead puppy when we actually knew that it was jammed and caught in the ribs, and it needed removing.  The rest of litter had been delivered naturally, and we knew the pup that was caught had already died. 

It is up to the surgeon to ensure all pups are found, and to check everywhere.  My own vet was taken a bitch that had just been brought into this country, after having a C-section.  She was very, very poorly.  He was extemely cross.  He found a decomposing pup in the vaginal canal, and told me that if it had been a vet in this country, he would have personally have taken action to have the vet struck off.  So yes, visual and feel around.  I have never had to deal with anything as awful as the OP.  I would be heartbroken if this had happened to me.  And, by making an effort to get a vet struck off, means he can't do this again to another person.

chloe and pups are doing fine.Bit of a scare this morning she rolled on two pups,they had both stopped breathing but i managed to revive them both .they are doing fine now feeding from chloe

This is an awful thing to have happened, was the vet partially sighted,half asleep or something, to miss 2 pups or any pups is disgraceful, when I have watched canine C/Sections on video the vet checks both horns right down to the cervix so none were missed.

It is a miracle that the one survived as the dam would have been given something to cause the uterus to contract and help to seal the placental beds and reduce the bleeding, one pup was forced out and the second one was either malpresented so got stuck and the placenta came drift and it died.

I hope you get back all the money you paid

If Mum is rolling on the pups then you need pig rails and someone watching her 24/7, even nipping to the loo is too long to leave her alone.

Keep us posted

Was it an elective section or an emergency situation?  I certainly would not expect it in an elective section but in an emergency maybe, just possibly, bearing in mind the conformation of a Bassett. 
I would certainly want to hear the vet's explanation and perhaps have a look at the op notes.

> Was it an elective section or an emergency situation? 

I would hope no C section was elective.

bearing in mind the conformation of a Bassett.

Don't think the conformation of a Basset reproductive organs is any different to any other dog and there should be plenty of room compared with say a toy breed so what is your point?

> there should be plenty of room compared with say a toy breed so what is your point?

That was my point :)  Plenty of room in a long body to tuck away.

Actually a Basset has no longer a body than any other breed that isn't ultra short coupled, e.g.' a Border Collie, they just seem long as they have short legs. ;)

Plenty of room in a long body to tuck away.

They have a perfectly normal body for a medium to large dog there should be no problem at all for a vet to do a C section the breed as far as I can see is like any other of its size.

> They have a perfectly normal body for a medium to large dog

You could be right but I am not sure if that is the case in the modern show Bassett.  The certainly look longer than examples in old photographs and illustrations.
Even then, a section as you say should not present a problem but we do not know the individual circumstances, the condition of the bitch under aneasthesia etc. 

Perhaps he should have phoned a friend tadog. That's outrageous!

Quote Stooge - You could be right but I am not sure if that is the case in the modern show Bassett.  The certainly look longer than examples in old photographs and illustrations.

May be they were short, take a look at a Basset next time you see one, a good one, like in a show ring and you will see they are a normal size in the body.

Quote Stooge - Even then, a section as you say should not present a problem but we do not know the individual circumstances, the condition of the bitch under aneasthesia etc. 

Then why comment on the fact it was a basset, the breed is of no concern it is the behaviour of the surgeon that is in question not the breed of dog.

> Then why comment on the fact it was a basset,

Because I am not sure I agree with you regarding the Bassetts we see in the show ring :)

That is an optical illusion, the body is a normal length the legs are extremely short in some show bassets as the achondroplastic dwarfing genes can give a variance in the limb shortening.

The standard for body:
"Body
Long and deep throughout length, breast bone prominent but chest neither narrow nor unduly deep. There should be adequate clearance between the lowest part of the chest and the ground to allow the hound to move freely over all types of terrain. Ribs well rounded and sprung, without flange, extending well back. Back rather broad and level; withers and quarters of approximately same height, though loins may arch slightly. Back from withers to onset of quarters not unduly long."

The standard may now say not unduly long but the description of long remains.
It is the very first thing stated when describing the body! :)
There are other achondroplastic breeds that are neither described as long nor appear long so I do not feel it is an illusion.

It doesnt say a Border collie or a Golden Retriever is long (the latter calls for a compact body), but compared to the short body my breed is required to have they have a long body.

If you compared a typical Basset say to a photo of a bloodhound you woudl nto see much difference in the body properties re length.

Well how long is a piece of string :)  Clearly we need to just disagree.  This, to me is a long breed, just about as long as you can get a dog to be :)

Well all the ones I know have a body about the same length as a Labrador, they just have no legs ;)

Regardless - don't you just spend a couple of minutes feeling along each horn of the uterus whilst you are in there????

Exactly it's not like Palpating to see if a bitch is finished the vet has the bitch opened up and the uterine horns to examine.

> don't you just spend a couple of minutes feeling along each horn of the uterus whilst you are in there????

Yes, you would which is why I would want to see the op notes.  Was there a rush for any reason?  Vital signs failing? Something of that order.  Otherwise there would be no excuse for it.

Just a side note. You will have to be vigilant with the litter if your not already taking shifts and making sure they are supervised.24hrs a day for the first 2 weeks as least. I think I would go to you local press as well

> This, to me is a long breed, just about as long as you can get a dog to be

As a basset owner, when seen around other large dogs they are of similar length, so don't understand your statement,  ' just about as long as you can get a dog to be'  and I've never heard that are any different internally. Whether the C section was elective or emergency it was the duty of the vet to ensure all pups were removed for the welfare of the bitch.

No I did not understand either Lacy, all the Basset I have ever seen have had a normal 'to be expected' sort of body, now no way would I suggest their legs were of 'normal' 'usual' to be expected length of your average medium to large dog but hell they are a basset and the very word should tell you to expect the legs to be short. 

Would also agree the vet should have found the pups the Basset anatomy is in no way unusual or strange no matter what some may think and there seems little to think except that the surgeon was careless or drunk.

> and I've never heard that are any different internally.

Of course they are not different internally but they are a large, and I would say long :), dog.  They are also on their back for the procedure so there is certainly scope for the horns to slip away from their general position particularly when the majority of the puppies have been removed.

> it was the duty of the vet to ensure all pups were removed for the welfare of the bitch.

It was, which is why I would want to know if they was any reason for the rush to get her closed up.

> hell they are a basset and the very word should tell you to expect the legs to be short. 

Forget the legs and compare the lumbar and thoracic vertibrae with the cervical spine.

Forget the legs and compare the lumbar and thoracic vertibrae with the cervical spine.

Think that is rather what we have been saying, do that and you will see they are the average length for a dog of their size.

> do that and you will see they are the average length for a dog of their size.

I was referring to ratio with the cervical spine.  It certainly appears greater to me but clearly we will continue to differ :)

Think perhaps you will have to get your hands on a few dogs both Basset and other dogs of a similar size and you will see what we mean, yes against an Elkhound they are long and a GSD short but the average dog of their size will all be about the same.

I could keep pointing out the ratio but we are just going around in circles :)

We do understand ratio we judge it all the time - but I accept you are never going to really look at a Basset the way that the rest of us do so no point in continuing this exchange it is like trying to turn black to white.

> it is like trying to turn black to white.

I feel the same :)  I have owned an achondroplasic breed so really quite familiar with it and the Kennel Club breed standard of this one reads pretty clearly to me.

If you put 'normal' length legs onto a basset you have a dog with regular proportions. Compared to the length of leg then the back is long, but not when 'typical canine' legs are mentally applied.

I think if you mentally applied the necessarily length of leg you would find the neck proportions rather troubling :)
However, either way you look at it, whether it is the spinal ratios or simply because it is a large dog, this is a long dog.

The neck would still enable the dog's nose to reach the ground. :-)

Yea, but not for very long :-D