i was just wondering does anyone not sell their puppies to older people , at what age would you say no,

It is something I would consider but would not set a particular age but rather attempt to assess if they appear to have taken care of their health and are therefore reasonably expected to have a good ten years of fitness. 
As with all my vetting though, if any doubt at all, I would not let them have a puppy.

What would you call 'older people'?

Over 75 I would ask what contingency plans they had for if they became unable to look after a dog. It would also depend on breed.

it very much depends on the person, their ability to look after a dog and their support network.  I would help people if I could if I thought they were good people to have a pup.  I have talked to an older agility competitor as she was gutted after what she assumed would be her 'last agility dog' suffers from epilepsy, having had her next youngest dog dislocate a hip on laminate flooring.  I offered that if she wanted a pup (she decided against) it wouldn't be a problem as I'd have it back or her daughter would take it on.  Doing agility in your late 70s must keep you fit!

> Over 75 I would ask what contingency plans they had for if they became unable to look after a dog.

That could mean a whole second family to vet.  I don't think I would bother if I felt there was a strong possibility it would come to that.
I know none of us know what is around the corner but at 75 you have to accept that corner is more likely to be just along the street :)

So much would depend on what contingency plans they have. If they for instance have family that would take on a dog should anything happen. My grandparents lost their Papillon in 1979, then said they couldn't possibly get another dog as they may die before it. They died in 1998, and spent 19 years desperately missing the company of a dog. My mum and I said if they got a dog we promised we would give it a home if anything happened but they still didn't feel able to. I always felt it was tragic, as a dog would also have kept them active.

When my mother in law lost her elderly dog we gave her another and she has two dogs now (she's 84 and disabled) but as she lives in a granny flat in our house it's no problem at all, we have ultimate responsibility yet she still has the constant company of dogs that live with her and not just with us. (And I am AMAZED at how well an disabled 84 year old that isn't even 5 feet tall have managed to control two very large dogs weighing as much as she does -they do whatever she says and she's even taught them new commands! They were adults when they moved in with her though.)

I let an older lady have a pup for showing last year, the pup is co-owned with her and a common friend, so if anything should happen, the dog goes to my friend who bred the mother of the pup. From the same litter a 66 year old lady had another pup -she's very fit, does flyball with the dog, and should anything happen to her, the dog comes back to me -but hopefully at just 66 she will have him for his entire life.

That could mean a whole second family to vet.

No you just ask them to come along when granny comes to visit the pups, so that's two flies killed at once. :)

when I worked as a housing officer I encouraged people to have another dog even when they were older ... even taking some to the Dogs Trust for an older dog so that they wouldn't miss out on the company etc that a dog will bring

75 isn't old these days, my Mum is 76 and very active and till a couple of years ago was doing line dancing 4 times a week, then classes dropped when venues closed and friends she had made stopped going due to other commitments.

In 2002 she asked me to find a rescue mini long dachsie or one retiring from breeding, I had no luck so she decided to go for a pup on the understanding if she couldn't cope I would take the pup or share in its care, Penny will be 9 in May and they got on fine.

I think I would have to judge each person individually, older folk generally have more time to spend with dogs and provided the breed is appropriate then I don't see a problem.

> my Mum is 76 and very active

I suppose it depends on the breed but in five years time she would be 81 when a lively active breed such as a cocker would be in its prime.

An old neighbour was allowed to 'adopt' a rescue terrier when she was over 90. The dog was walked at least twice a day over the fields whatever the weather. It was quite a young dog and very active. It probably kept her alive as she had a reason for going out every day :) :) I am sure that many of my doggy neighbours (and myself) would have volunteered to walk it should she have become unable to do so :) :)

It just depends on the individual IMO.

Vizsla rescue allowed a very sprightly 90 year old to adopt a 9 year old Vizsla (they often live to 15 or 16).  She had had the breed all her life and had one die unexpectedly young.  Apparently it was a great match - but heartbreakingly her adoptee Vizsla also died within a year of cancer.  If I were breeding I would base my decision on whether there was a contingency plan and how active the elderly person was.  I would sooner sell a Vizsla puppy to a sprightly/active elderly person who was experienced with the breed than to an inactive & inexperienced younger person.

That is why she didn't get another cocker, although mini longs have cocker genes in them they calm down much sooner, will take as much or as little exercise that is on offer, smaller to be taken out and about with her in the car.

I live around the corner and Penny comes and stays when Mum can't take her with her, not very often, holidays are in this country staying at dog friendly venues,with other family members or taking over the home of my brother when he is away abroad on holiday so she can go and visit friends where we used to live, sadly the last of those died a couple of weeks back age 95, very fit and active till she had a stroke she didn't recover from.

That could mean a whole second family to vet.

>No you just ask them to come along when granny comes to visit the pups, so that's two flies killed at once.

Exactly. :-)

>> No you just ask them to come along when granny comes to visit the pups, so that's two flies killed at once.
> Exactly.

I'd rather not bother.  :)  If they have a dog shaped place in the house they are likely to already have it filled rather than wait for the chance that Granny will pop off?  I would not be keen to place a dog where there is any possibility that it will end up in a home that did not particularly set out to own him but just wanted Granny to have something she wanted or they felt she needed.
An older dog may suit the bill for someone in that situation.
Yes, that home might possibly be better than going for the young inexperienced home but you don't have to go for either do you.

Age is not an issue in my mind as accidents happen and ANYONE of ANY AGE could have a fatal accident & the dog would outlive them.
I personally would judge each case separately & we, like a vast deal of others, say that the dog comes back to us for any reason......

> I personally would judge each case separately

Oh, I do and age comes into that judgement for me.

> I personally would judge each case separately
> Oh, I do and age comes into that judgement for me.

I think I responded to your post rather than the original postee....

I would take each case individually as some people in their 50's are less active than some in their 70's, but I also offer lifetime support to any pup I have bred.

When my mother-in-law died 3 years ago my father-in-law was able to adopt my dog's Grandfather Jack who's now 11. It has worked out very well and at the age of 83 he still has a purpose in life, he often says that getting Jack was the best thing he did.
We do have plans in place if the worst happens but at the moment they're like the two grumpy old men and suit each other well!

> That could mean a whole second family to vet.  I don't think I would bother if I felt there was a strong possibility it would come to that.
>

If it is someone already 'in' the breed (or had larger/more needy breed) having their next dog, then if they have contingency plans in situ then not a problem, rather different if it would be their first dog or another after a long break (have twice had to re-home pups from people in the breed for decades, but not had a pup for 15 years).

After all people can die/become disabled unexpectedly at any age, and quite readily from 40's onwards.

>  quite readily from 40's onwards.

I hope not!  :)
I would consider peoples general fitness and habitus whatever their age. 

Well I have certainly started seeing various people dying from 40 onwards, especially men with heart attacks, others with Cancer. 

I think half my Dad's friends were dead by theri mid 40's to 50's, adn my OH parents neither got past 61.

Do you not think that the chance of getting a pup back because of family breakup or the need to put a child first is not as likely or more likely than someone who has reached a healthy 3 score years and 10 becoming unable to cope. :-) But then I speak as someone who has just had to reach this sort of decision but from the other side of the deal.

Of course individuals can die young and genetics play a role but I think if you select from a group that do not smoke, eat healthily and exercise appropriately there will not be significant numbers dying in their forties.

> Do you not think that the chance of getting a pup back because of family breakup or the need to put a child first is not as likely or more likely than someone who has reached a healthy 3 score years and 10 becoming unable to cope.

Possibly.  :)  I would not let a puppy go to families with very young children or those that have only been together a couple of years either because as you point out the statistics are not good for these.

so does your vetting process involve not letting puppies go to people who are overweight, smokers, people who don't eat their vegetables, People who eat too much red meat, coffee drinkers,  people who are under 35 in case they get pregnant people over 50 incase they die or become infirm. presumably only part time workers on a reasonable income so they can afford vets fees?
That would be quite a narrow selection pool.

Would anybody really ask a potential new owner their age?
And worse yet, did they think that they might die or become too ill to cope in the next 10 to 15 years.

I have always worked with people and can tell you that age is simply a number.

A person can be old and past it at 50, and young and vital with plenty of years left at 80.

Every one is different and no can make a call on numbers alone, a complete picture is all that must count.
Please be respectful to 'older' people and dont judge the number of years they have been around.

Karen  :)

I think if you select from a group that do not smoke, eat healthily and exercise appropriately there will not be significant numbers dying in their forties.

Other than the smoking, that's me out then -it's a good job not every breeder thinks the same way. :) Although my best friend did everything right and still died at 47. Leaving a dog.

> so does your vetting process involve not letting puppies go to people who are overweight, smokers, people who don't eat their vegetables, People who eat too much red meat, coffee drinkers,  people who are under 35 in case they get pregnant people over 50 incase they die or become infirm. presumably only part time workers on a reasonable income so they can afford vets fees?
>

Pretty close to that, yes :)

>That would be quite a narrow selection pool.

Not really.  The kind of sensible enquiry you get is often people whose family is growing or grown allowing them the time and energy for a dog I find.

> Although my best friend did everything right and still died at 47.

As I have previously said we do not know what is around the corner but we do know the probabilities and what factors govern them.  I does not make any sense to me to ignore that.
Nobody is entitled to a dog, everyone assesses their potential buyers to some degree or other so everyone will be excluding someone that may then feel aggrieved but that is our choice.
I would add I do not just look for good health for longevity but because my breed enjoy an active lifestyle so best suited to someone that is also active and lively.

> Would anybody really ask a potential new owner their age?
> And worse yet, did they think that they might die or become too ill to cope in the next 10 to 15 years.
>

Insurance companies do it all the time.  They use statistics related to known factors.

>> so does your vetting process involve not letting puppies go to people who are overweight, smokers, people who don't eat their vegetables, People who eat too much red meat, coffee drinkers,  people who are under 35 in case they get pregnant people over 50 incase they die or become infirm. presumably only part time workers on a reasonable income so they can afford vets fees?
>>
> Pretty close to that, yes :-)

Just as well i don't want one of your puppies then as I am over 50 my grandchildren who are 2 and 3 visit frequently. i am overweight and have a penchant for cream cakes. Totally unsuitable as a dog owner.

However in spite of this I manage to walk all of my dogs for 1-2 hours a day, train them play with them do agility and spend most of my days with them.
But you still think i would not be good enough for one of your puppies?

> The kind of sensible enquiry you get is often people whose family is growing or grown allowing them the time and energy for a dog I find.

'growing' would imply young children (or potential young children) which you already ruled out in an above post.

For me I think there are very few things that I have set in stone, and have looked at every case on their merit.  The older person who has family willing to take the dog - the family may already have a dog and be well prepared to have the extra (we would), it doesn't mean there's a 'dog shaped hole needing filled elsewhere' or whatever the phrase was above.

I know I said on a different post that having a dog is a privilege not a right, however if someone is perfectly capable of caring for a dog, has contingency plans in place, and can afford it both financially and give it the care it needs in all aspects then who am I to deprive them of the opportunity.  I'd go above and beyond to support that kind of home!  They may still have 10-15 years ahead of them.  And tomorrow I might be run over by a car.

And if you think cancers only single out the type of people in your list then I'm not sure where you've been living the past 20 years.  Young fit healthy people are dying from cancer and having heart attacks for no apparent reasons.

So to the original question age would not be a defining factor - it would be taken into consideration with the whole picture.

OK, I've glimpsed through comments and seen quite a few "it would depend on the breed"!

I'm Border Collies :-D My breeder friend/mentor is BCs too. She had a gentleman in his early 70s for a pup a couple of years ago. He wasn't ruled out at all. He'd had BCs his entire life, was fit, active and healthy! He was asked if he'd considered his age and what if anything happened in 10 years time would happen to his dog.

In the end he visited with his son & young family. His son was primed that if anything should happen to his Dad then the dog would go to them. They'd thought about it very seriously, all were familiar with the breed, all were just wonderful and he ended up with the pup. What a wonderful life pup is having. Dad is still fit and active, pup is being mentally and physically stimulated.

How could he be refused a home? I certainly wouldn't refuse him based on age with the tremendous family support he had ... which extended out to a daughter and her family, not vetted but you sort of got the gist of the entire family.

So long as thought has been given to what happens to the dog - yes, by all means say it comes back to the Breeder, but the ideal is that it stays in a home it's familiar with - the person is familiar with the breed, is fit, able and capable of handling the breed, does it really matter the age?

If there is no backup support that is different, but in the above example Dad was more than fully supported by his family. Not a case of vetting two lots of people, get everyone to visit together, that way you truly know what they're all like with the dog.

> And if you think cancers only single out the type of people in your list then I'm not sure where you've been living the past 20 years.  Young fit healthy people are dying from cancer and having heart attacks for no apparent reasons.
>
>

And yes the list includes those who get killed in car accidents at the age of 40 leaving 2 dogs!!!

>If they have a dog shaped place in the house they are likely to already have it filled rather than wait for the chance that Granny will pop off?

Before my mother bought her golden pup she asked me if I'd take him on if 'anything happened to her'. She was in her late 60s at the time. He was her sole companion for 15 years, and gave her a renewed interest in life after my father died, and they grew frail together. Luckily the breeder was totally on her side. :-)

>'growing' would imply young children

Would it?  Perhaps I should have said growing up then.  No need to guess what that implies I can tell you I mean about the age of ten. :) 

> And if you think cancers only single out the type of people in your list then I'm not sure where you've been living the past 20 years.  Young fit healthy people are dying from cancer and having heart attacks for no apparent reasons.
>

I'm a nurse so perfectly aware that it happens. 
As I keep saying, probabilities. Fact is people over 70 are less likely to be around for as long as someone a decade younger.  Yes?
My interest is not just in longevity of course.  I like my puppies to go to people with active lifestyles because that is what I want for them.

> She was in her late 60s at the time.

I certainly would consider a fit person in their late 60s. Is that old? :)

My Dad is 77 and his wife is younger than me by 10 months, I cannot think of him as old at all. 

Physically he is as strong as an Ox, and before OH came along 3 years ago the man who could as regards any heavy lifting/furniture moving, emergencies or DIY jobs I needed.

On the other hand a chap me and OH socialise with who I think of as an 'old' person, I was shocked to discover eh was only 20 years older than me and a mere 68. 

He cannot walk very far without using a puffer, has a fully herniated abdomen that cannot be repaired, and yet spent a lifetime in the army during his young and adult life.

I'm not sure what your point is Brainless.  I would agree you can find much younger people who are not in great shape.

I would have thought elder people more likely to have serious plans for what would happen if ? - where as younger people don't and I hear so many rescue stories of animals left home alone when something tragic has happened to their 'younger' owners - who had not planned for the worse to happen :-(

My point is age is just a number.

The person who is prematurely old led an active life, but still has poorer health, and has aged faster than my Dad, who really could give a man in his 50's a run for their money.

Neither would make a suitable dog owner, but Dad only as he hasn't the inclination or commitment, thinks the Cat is too much trouble wanting her servants (his wife and himself) to open doors and windows at her bidding ;).

>I certainly would consider a fit person in their late 60s. Is that old?

Old enough to recognise that you're on the wrong side of the hill, and to make contingency plans! :-D

Would you have sold the Queen a puppy 10 years ago?

> - where as younger people don't and I hear so many rescue stories of animals left home alone when something tragic has happened to their 'younger' owners - who had not planned for the worse to happen

I know that scenario all too well :( but these occurances are rather rarer than the natural events of aging.

> Would you have sold the Queen a puppy 10 years ago?

Possibly because we have the distinct advantage of knowing an awful lot about her genes :)
Infact, thinking about it, I may make a firm conviction to except anyone from my criteria who has a swathe of footmen to take over :-D

We could look at many examples of people doing well or not so well unexpectedly, Brainless but, lacking a crystal ball, we don't really have any choice but to look at the individual and assess their probabilities of continuing good health over the next dozen years or so. 

I accept what people are saying about continguency plans, family stepping in etc, but this is not particularly desirable for me, after all they can always come back to me, but I don't want them to have a change of home so will be looking to avoid this where it is more likely to occur.

Divorce is increasing in the over 50s. I really think, Stooge, that you should restrict your potential puppy owners to wealthy (but not too wealthy - seeing that you are excepting those with footmen), celibate spinsters under 40 :) :) That would probably (unless anyone wants to own up) rule out everyone on CD :) :) :)

Just a thought,
I have had elderly several customers who wanted a dog and I have said that if they had noone else to have it then I would, they all know I am a dog lover. Noone as yet has taken me up on the offer, Although I may have a suprise one day getting a call to say they have passed and I get the dog !!! LOL (I do have a close friendship relationship with alot of my customers)
Equally with my mum and dad, if they ever want a dog, I would always take it on if anything happened to them.
It wouldnt be a dog I didnt want, it would be a dog that was special because it was gifted to me because the person trusted me with their much loved pet.
It would be loved the same way as my two dogs are and I would adjust my life to suit it, whatever!!!
The same way as I have all my other rescue animals that we now have.
Lea :) :)

:-D