Does anyone know if there are any charitable organisations or philanthropic organisations that might assist someone on a low income with veterinary costs? This is not for me, but someone I know whose dog apparently needs an elbow replacement due to severe arthritis, at an estimated cost of £5k.

Unfortunately the owner does not have insurance cover, and is not eligible for assistance from the PDSA or RSPCA clinics because she has a small income and is not on either Housing Benefit or Council Tax benefit.

The 2 breed clubs are being contacted, but it's thought unlikely that they will assist.

Just thought I'd ask on the off-chance someone might have a suggestion. Thanks.

I am just wondering if there are alternatives like amputation as if the condition is so serious I would have thought this was a cheaper alternative treatment and dogs are very capable of living a full active life with three legs presuming the dog is fit and active otherwise ? They could then agree a payment plan with the vet maybe ?

There is always a problem when people have an income of their own there often is no help, it's not fair but that is the way the world works. I can't think of anyone other than the PDSA all charities only help the financially impaired.

It is obviously too late for the owner but to others if there is no insurance then a stand by credit card needs to be at hand, vets bills are horrendous, this one particularly so.

Can this owner not contact family or very close friends who may have a credit card who can help with her giving monthly installments? £5,000 is a lot to ask a vet to do a payment plan for, it could take years depending on the income the owner has.

The only other thing I can think of is can she sell or pawn items to help pay the bill or re-mortgage her house? Or get a charity run or something similar going to raise the money in the owners area?

I don't know of anyone other than the PDSA, but just to say that I would not consider an elbow replacement for any of my dogs even if it only cost £1. If the dog has severe arthritis in this elbow chances are it's elsewhere in the body too, if it couldn't be managed by arthritis meds and pain relief personally I would let my dog fall asleep peacefully in my arms rather than put them through a difficult and painful op and recovery period.

Fully agree with you Chaumsong.  Even if I did feel it appropriate I would not borrow this amount of money, I certainly would not risk my house in a remortgage.  
Apart from family coming first, what use is it to have our dogs operated on if you risk having to part with them by being homeless when debts cannot be paid.

Have to agree our animals live for today, if they needed such expensive Vet treatment, and I could not reasonably finance it, then they would be PTS, but then I also disagree with doing very invasive treatments just because they can be done, and do wonder if the possibly lower  quality of life after justifies them.

A better use for the money would be to invest it into research that would help eliminate the problem, and as far as is humanly possible eliminate the problem being produced by breeders.  Of course it would require people only to buy puppies from health tested parents.

> A better use for the money would be to invest it into research that would help eliminate the problem, and as far as is humanly possible eliminate the problem being produced by breeders.  Of course it would require people only to buy puppies from health tested parents.

"Like" :)

> Have to agree our animals live for today, if they needed such expensive Vet treatment, and I could not reasonably finance it, then they would be PTS, but then I also disagree with doing very invasive treatments just because they can be done, and do wonder if the possibly lower quality of life after justifies them.
>
> A better use for the money would be to invest it into research that would help eliminate the problem, and as far as is humanly possible eliminate the problem being produced by breeders. Of course it would require people only to buy puppies from health tested parents.

Excellent post as usual Brainless, I agree with every word.

Hmm! I am of the opinion that we cover cost ourselves. I do not have a lot of disposable cash, but the pet insurance is at the top of the list. i hear all the time of people that cant afford it/vet costs. perhaps where i have learnt this from was years ago i had a friend who travelled 25 miles to have her pet treated free by pdsa, she told the pdsa that it was her mums dog as she lived nearby.  in reality my friend had a husband that brought home a good wage, he smoked and drank. had steak on a 'school night'.  So I never put into a pdsa can now. i am sure there will be deserving people that are genuine, however i would be happy to advise how they could save money, i did it when i was a single parent and still paid my own vet fees/insurand.
Wait on the posts guys!!!

> i did it when i was a single parent and still paid my own vet fees/

ditto

I wish there was a like button on this site! I would love to see one!

> i am sure there will be deserving people that are genuine, however i would be happy to advise how they could save money, i did it when i was a single parent and still paid my own vet fees/insurand.
>

Agree!  I'm alone, and having a lot of dogs, insurance is not an option.  I have a credit card for emergency vet bills.  I needed it when my old Beardie collapsed with internal bleeding.  Operation was a grand, and I didn't have it. 

If I had a hobby with "things", then I would wait and save up for stuff.  Dogs don't have that convenience.  You take on vet bills with the decision to own a dog.  (Even if it means the kids have to share Fido's dinner.)

Sorry tadog, said tongue in cheek!  :-)

You take on vet bills with the decision to own a dog.

When my OH died 4 years ago I had real financial problems, but my dogs came first in line for anything they needed. I had a vet bill of over £1500 so took out my very first credit card and spent over 2 years paying it back. Needs must....

> having a lot of dogs, insurance is not an option.  I have a credit card for emergency vet bills.

Yep I keep a line of credit for doggy emergencies, it's about £3500.

> if they needed such expensive Vet treatment, and I could not reasonably finance it, then they would be PTS, but then I also disagree with doing very invasive treatments just because they can be done, and do wonder if the possibly lower  quality of life after justifies them.

If a total elbow replacement goes to plan, the dog will regain great movement and be free from pain from the arthritis, so an improvement in quality of life.
Busters elbows are rubbish, elbow replacements have been discussed and would have been covered on his insurance. However, for a dog his size, I would struggle with after care and if anything goes wrong in the surgery, he is too big to cope with an amputated fore-leg (IMO as he's not a very co-ordinated dog).

I've decided he will not be having an elbow replacement, if things get bad for him and pain management is not working (which he currently doesn't need) then I would have him PTS. It would break my heart to have to do it, but I would not want to put him through the surgery and the recovery period (I've read it can take a up to a year on some vets websites)
Thankfully in Busters case, his elbows are fusing together, allthough this means he doesn't move properly, it means he has very little pain (if any) as the elbow joints are not moving.

Fusion of the elbow is in fact a surgical option where a total elbow replacement is not an option (I wonder if this is a cheaper alternative to a replacement?)

Busters is no longer insured as anything costing huge amounts of money would be major orthapedic surgery, which I will not put him through anyway.
The only thing I find strange is if the dog in question has advanced arthritis to the point a total elbow replacement is the only option - why didn't the owner know about this sooner? I've known since Buster was 5 months old his elbow was bad & therefore have needed to consider possible options for the future.

I would borrow money and get myself in debt if needed to help my dog, but there are some things I wouldn't put him through regardless of cost.

Sorry I can't help with suggestions for sources of cash, but I can offer my own experience. Having put a young cat through 2 very expensive and sophisticated joint repair operations, I would never do it or similar again, I would amputate the affected limb. Dogs, up to a certain size, and cats, do fine on 3 legs, and from my experience the cost and lengthy recovery period that follow that kind of surgery is not justified.

JeanSW, no offence taken, my daughter and me often ate less well than we ought to have due to our canine expenses. as i used to say (& sometines still do to my dogs) life is tough, but this is how we stay together!

http://vetspecialists.co.uk/veterinary_professionals/pro_bono_scheme.html

This company does a pro bono scheme for some instances.

However im inclined to agree with everyone else regarding financial situations but even more so with majorly intrusive operations.

I have just had a TTA done on my dog, and i regret it i would never do it again due to some ad complications.

> The only thing I find strange is if the dog in question has advanced arthritis to the point a total elbow replacement is the only option - why didn't the owner know about this sooner?

I only found out Hamish's hips (and other joint/bone problems) were bad at 9+ years old. Fair enough he doesn't need a hip replacement (yet, and he's now 12 and managed with medication and hydrotherapy) and I wouldn't put him through it, but not all symptoms show up early on. He never showed any signs of any problems and competed in agility from 3 years old.

Often an injury can result in arthritis in the joint as well.

I have a particularly painful thumb joint that gets bad sometimes from a dog related injury about 8 years ago .

I was also told by the trauma surgeon who did my ankle op to be prepared to suffer in a few years because of the trauma injuries received in my ankle and foot joints .

> I only found out Hamish's hips (and other joint/bone problems) were bad at 9+ years old.

Ahh poor boy :(
But you did see signs of his arthritis 3 years ago and he is still at a stage where hip replacement is not needed. Since you discovered he had arhtritis you would have been aware of possible future options then and not just suddenly wake up one day to see he has arthritis so bad he needs a joint replacement (if you see what I mean).

Thanks everyone.

Like most people, I too have a 0% interest credit card, pet insurance etc etc etc. Unfortunately this person does not, frustrating though it is for people like you and me who realise how essential it is in todays high prices. Which reminds me, at some point I WILL get round to organising a petition on the government's website and hope to get the requisite number of signatures to get the whole issue of exorbitant vet fees (when was the last time you saw a poor vet) and animal insurance debated. It seems to me that it's a vicious cycle - vets encourage insurance (unheard of in my youth), hike their fees because the insurance companies pay most of it, the insurance companies in turn hike their premiums, and so we go on and on.

The vet hospital is recommending elbow replacement rather than amputation. His problem was diagnosed relatively recently (within last 12 months) and he's been on drugs, which they then changed and which hospitalised him.

The owner is selling everything of value - but not remortgaging the house as there is a young family - but like many people today they and the extended family are struggling financially, and those of us who can, and who are fortunate to be in a better position, are contributing.

Obviously I can't/won't go into all of the background here - it would not be appropriate, and would probably just produce a flurry of responses about what this owner should have done etc etc. Please don't judge this person harshly, she has loved and cared for her beloved dog for more than 8 years and it's not her asking for help, but friends trying to explore what if anything might be available.

Thanks tillyandangel for your very helpful response - we'll follow that up.

>(when was the last time you saw a poor vet)

My vet is always there if I race in at 8am with a dog on my way in to work, and will still be there if I have an emergency at 10pm.

His car is a heap.

When I heard how much he earns (from a girl at the surgery) I was gobsmacked.  Less than double my salary.  He more than earns it.

>when was the last time you saw a poor vet

Daily. Many earn less than the national average (which is supposedly about £25k).

Before you go to the hassle of organising a petition, check out the prices you'd have to pay for human medical treatment if the NHS didn't exist, and see how very reasonable vet fees are ...

I agree JG. Vets like anybody have a right to earn a living they are not a charity .

They also spend many years studying to be able to treat our animals so also deserve a good salary.

I was speaking to the wife of my vet just before I had Moose PTS about this subject and they run a business and like any other business they have overheads and so the prices they charge are based on reasonable returns for the service they provide. I agreed absolutely with this.

My new vets are very fair, I rarely get charged the first consultation charge, usually the follow up lesser charge. I occasionally check online prices for meds and find that the vets are not that different. I recently popped in when Milly wasn't eating and I was worried about pyometra and they done an ultrasound at no charge.

My old vets however were a different matter, they seemed to charge for absolutely everything and I once got charged £40 for phoning up to ask them if rowan berries were poisonous, they didn't even see the dog. That was the time I moved to my current vets, because after the £40 charge I called and asked them the same thing, advice given for free and an offer to check the dog over too.

I agree that vets need to earn a living wage, they study hard and put long hours in and deserve to be rewarded for it, and I have no problem at all with paying a fair price for treatment received :-)

Which reminds me, at some point I WILL get round to organising a petition on the government's website and hope to get the requisite number of signatures to get the whole issue of exorbitant vet fees

When you consider they study longer than any other profession, have to buy or rent their premises and equipment and be or arrange for 24/7 cover, most buy in medication that may or may not be used and I hate to think what there liability insurance costs and then there are there vehicles, they either have to put bleeding or vomiting dogs in their own cars or go to the expect of having a practice ambulance. I admire you zeal but there must be loads of better causes that may even be successful where as your vet one has not a chance in hell, in this country everyone in entitled to sell their services for what they can get and there is no way the government is going to change that.

When you realise how much a vet's overheads are then you will realise the charges are more than fair. They aren't ripping you off they are trying cover costs and pay all their staff. One of our newer vets has an old Ford focus with a tape player in it - hardly top of the range and lives in a flat. She struggles to pay bills nad lives day to day on a strick budget. I hardly think she is rich compared to some office workers i see! Somebody remarked the other day that they woundn' t pay that much for their own tablets - well no, the NHS does, but think how much you have to pay in NHS contributions to get that.
It really makes me cross that people always go on about how much vets earn, think about how much their student loan is! I even get accused of making a fortune and i am a vets receptionist! No i still live at home because i can't afford to move out - much like one of our new vets!

I may get shot down in flames for this but, shouldn't it be the pharmaceutical companies that are held to blame for high costs ?. My vet has said many a time she doesn't blame people for getting meds over the internet, they just can't compete with their prices, and quite often the online price is cheaper than the price they pay wholesale. Once when I remarked about how cheap Tramadol was she commented that it was because it was a human med, if it got made for animals the price would rocket.

> shouldn't it be the pharmaceutical companies that are held to blame for high costs

maybe, but that wouldn't really have an impact on the costs the OPs friend is looking at.
£5,000 for an elbow replacement is not going to a general vet, it's going to an orthapedic specialist.
The specialist operation, is carried out by a team of people, at a specialist surgery, using specialist equiptment, fitting a surgical implant, which the specialist need to pay to go on extra courses to learn about, and still is in it's infancy being developed over the last 10 years.

I've had a quick google and found that elbow replacement in people, in the USA, can cost up to $50,000!

Sadly not, the pharmaceutical companies have to spend a lot of money on rigourous testing to get hte licensed animal equivalent on the market, and then vets have to use this product, but the drugs companies have to recoup this money from somewhere. You could also say you need to blame the government for the 20% tax that is on ever single vets bill you pay too. But sadly at the end of the day its our choice to have animals and they are classed as a luxury so althought its harsh i don't think you can blame anyone because when you take on an animal you take on the costs that come with it.