I wanted to get some feed back on this as i have now started using a muzzle on my 6 year old Rottie,
their are 2 main reasons for this , 1 he tends to eat bones and anything else off the floor when he is off lead (which he is off alot,) and he often sicks up the bones later,

2, their is a crazy man around our area who has an even crazier collie dog that is also always off lead but it will lunge and go nuts everytime it see's my dogs,

mine dont do anything but wag tails and stand staring at him, but i had a run in with this man the other night (he clearly is on drugs)
and after i see he was on a grass area up the road from where i live with his dog and his dog went beserk , i said opps sorry i will go the other way and i walked the long way round some flats to get to my house to avoid confrontation,
as i got to my front door the man is coming up my road not 3 doors away from my house with his dog ((And he does know we live here)), now both my Rottie and his dog where off lead so i have told my boy to come side so he stays firmly with me which he did and he ignored this collie, we went indoors no problem i thought,
Till my dog stars to growl i go look out the passage window to see this man standing at the top of my garden path and his dog is growling at my front door,, inside my front garden,,

so i went out to the man and said what are you doing he clearly was off his face , and stood their saying i had dangerous dogs and what was i worried for and aload of other old rubbish i wont go into,
i couldnt help think that this man is just wanting his and my dog to buck up into each other and have a fight that was the impression i was getting from the man,

he often has his dog digging big holes in the grass area on the estate where the council have just fenced it in so for me its a fab place to let my bully boy off lead to run safely , but this man has let his dog destroy it , he has the collie bitting the bark off the trees and theirs holes everywhere now,

i cant help feel that his intentions are not good so the next day me and hubby went out with my Rottie and bought him a muzzle :-(,
I dont like it but i feel its more for his safety and when i say this i mean i dont want my dog to end up in a fight with this dog and me the one with the Rottweiler would be the one with the police at my door!,  i am aware that if this dog where to attack my boy that my boy could not defend himself but believe me when i say i would have no problem jumping in their and dragging this dog off my boy if needs be, i just cant help feeling cruel at making my boy wear the muzzle but in all fairness he dont seem bothered in the slightest he was walking about and jumping the walls same old way last night and i will say and hubby says the same we feel better knowing he couldnt hurt this collie if he did meet him, peace of mind if you know what i mean,

To be honest i'd be more inclined to get the aurhoritys involved than muzzle your own dog :-)
Your dog has no way of protecting itself and quite frankly neither you nor your dog should be put in a postion that the man and his dog have put/are putting you in

No I don't think it is cruel but I see no reason why you should unless the bone eating is a problem.

I would however report this man for harassment and get in first.

I use a muzzle on one of mine, so don't think it's cruel at all, it keeps everyone safe. However, like others I think you should get in touch with the Dog Warden at the very least, then if things progress further you have the back up of being able to say this man has been causing trouble for you and allowing his dog onto your property.

I would suggest though that if your walking through a residential area, you do keep your dog on a leash, your dog may be lovely and not cause trouble, but it's the impression you give out that can matter in these sort of situations, if something does kick off, you will at least be in the right by having your dog properly leashed.

i did think of this freds mum but i know though past experience that the authorities around here are blooming useless,

i tried to speak to the man explaining to him that i feel what he is doing by deliberate letting his dog come into my garden i felt was his way of trying to antagonizing my dog (im not even sure thats the right word to use for it hope you know what i mean)  i was meet with a strange grin from him the whole conversation left me thinking that he knows what his doing alright,
i do feel he is waiting for the day that both dogs meet up and i cant let that happen i fear my boy would really harm this dog if the collie attacked him,

i dont want mine hurt either but i know it would be me and my dog who gets into trouble and maybe even taken away their seems alot of jealous people round here, the sort of people who want to see your dog gone ,

i can see it coming Rottie savages sweet sheep dog!!!,, only this dogs not so sweet when he see's my boys,,

i have seen and spoke to the man before about this i said once to him while his dog was going mad at mine, that one of these days our dogs will end up having a big fight, his answer was "Probably" ,

i feel with the muzzle on at least he couldnt harm the other dog!,

i did stroke the dog while speaking to the man and he tried to hump my arm i did make him get right off and gave him a treat from my pocket i had taken out while my dogs where with me, i was hoping to build up some sort of friend status with the dog he does seem like a nice boy with a very stupid owner sadly!

I can see where you are coming from, if your dog is muzzled it won't be blamed for a fight or harming anyone and you will be seen by any authorities as being a sensible owner, if your dog does not mind in the slightest no harm done. :-) In your own way you are protecting your dog from being deemed dangerous as this man wishes to blight his name and others may well join in because he is a large guarding breed, (though in reality prob a big teddy bear :-D)

I think you are doing the right thing.

However, there is a part of me upset that you are pushed into feeling it is the only way out, regardless of whether the muzzle stays or not, you really do need to report this man to your dog warden and also the damage the dog is being allowed to do, you may not be the only 'victim' of this behaviour.

Carry a walking stick and any other legal deterrent along with you to protect your dog, and no it is not cruel at all, it would upset me if your dog did not like it and was distressed, but if he is ok about it, don't beat yourself up. :-)

im in London the whole area is a residential area i wouldnt want to have a lead on my boy all the time he loves to run jump and roll down the hills on his back ,
to lead him all the time on walks seems crueler than a muzzle he would be depressed,

and yes the eating bones of the floor was getting bad not just bones either alot of the African community round here seem to go onto grass areas and empty whole pots full left over food i dont know what food it is but it smells awful when just walking past so this was another reason for the muzzle we had been saying it for ages but dragged our feet on getting one till this run in with this guy the other night,

Sorry, not explaining very well ( as usual ) by residential I just meant streets .

as this man wishes to blight his name and others may well join in because he is a large guarding breed

Thanks Carrington thats exactly it, he stood their telling me when i said about what his dog has done to the trees,, he said "well your the one with them bullies who love swinging off them",
Now that really got my back up because None of my dogs have Ever swinged from a tree in their life's they wouldn't know how to, my bulls dont even chase sticks lol, so i new this man was just putting us in the typical stereotype class of i have these dogs so i must be letting my dogs do this,, same thing when he cockily said "well your the ones walking round with dangerous dogs", :-O , i did say yeah but difference being mine are not dangerous and i have control of mine unlike you who are walking round with a sweet sheep dog acting like you have a savaged pittbull and allowing him to act like one!, he just stood grinning total prat,
I will mention it to our plastic police men who walk around when i see them they know my dogs and one is a dog lover with 2 pugs of his own just to cover myself!, i cant think im the only one who has seen this dog acting the way he does the man lives in one of the better blocks of flats where people moan alot maybe they have already complained about the trees i would hope so,,

if a dog is not controlable and is aggressive, then it should be muzzled. or owner may get a control order. best to do yourself before you are forced to by the authorities.

if a dog is not controlable and is aggressive, then it should be muzzled. or owner may get a control order. best to do yourself before you are forced to by the authorities.

Tadog I don't think that is a reasonable description of this dog at all, very unfair to suggest the OP would be forced to muzzle her well behaved dog.

I noticed you said you live in London, well I do too, and I lead walk mine except in areas where they are allowed off lead, and there are plenty of those. To stop the dog eating food that has been left by Africans!!!! What are you going to do about the food that has been thrown all over the parks and pavements by other members of our community! I mean, it is chicken shop paradise down here. Grow up!!!!!!!

my dog is controllable and is in no way aggressive, its the mans sweet little sheep dog that is out of control and aggressive!, people like him should not be allowed dogs for what he is doing to the poor thing!

Grow up!!!!!!!

Take it that remark was you talking to yourself?

My dogs are controlable and in no way aggressive too, but.....regardless of this other dog, you should have your dog on a lead. Not everybody in London loves dogs as much as you or I, we need to respect that fact.

im going to do exactly what i have said i done muzzle my dog thanks!, i know the chicken bones from the school kids walking home with chicken and chips are a problem for my dog, but so is the african food already had one dog ill on something they emptied out onto the grass, why people cant use bins is beyond me! i think the Grow up!!!!!! was uncalled for loobyloo2,

i am in a grass area when my boy is off lead and quite frankly my dogs are not the problem here!,
it may have escaped you attention that i have said this man also walks round with his dog off lead All the time and the girl who takes the dog out also rides round on a bike with the dog running along where ever it likes!

Well I will stand corrected. Maybe you too should correct yourself when referring to who is dumping food!
But.. residential streets in London, dogs should be on leads. Two wrongs don't make a right. If the other dog is off lead, then you have reason to involve the appropriate authorities, but you are just as bad if you continue!

ohh sorry its not the African community who throw out their left over African food its all the white people who do that,,, feel better now!!!,

No babes, it's everyone, from all walks of life.

No Babes it most definitely  the African women who lives on the ground floor flat in the block over their,their, their and their!!!!,,,, please Dont make this a racist issue you Really Dont know enough about me to even Go their with me hun!

Think you've done that yourself!

> i think the Grow up!!!!!! was uncalled for loobyloo2,

Perhaps that was a bit strong but I do think singling out one community for the rubbish that adorns our streets and parks is a bit rich.  No particular african community here but plenty of chicken and other remnants ever morning in our small market town.

you see thats the trouble these days in this country, you cant state FACT! without being deemed racist, it is a fact that a few women on this estate who happen to be African do throw out their food on a regular basis but because i say so i must be racist ,,, despite the fact my partner of 22 years is BLACK!!,, oppps am i allowed to say that!!,, my sons are mixed race opps am i allowed to say aswell!!,, 
I tell you i have experienced more racism directed at me from the black community for being with a black partner than my partner has ever faced growing up in London,  so go claim back on your high horse and find a worthier cause will you!

i am not blaming the community solely i also blame the school kids for the chicken bones does  this make me a racist against the school kids,

Then you, with all your experience, should have learnt by now what is an acceptable way to talk and what isn't!

> i am not blaming the community solely i also blame the school kids for the chicken bones does  this make me a racist against the school kids

Probably best not to single out one minority group then no one is in any doubt that you do not see them as solely responsible :)

you need to report this person asap to local authorities, council,police,neighbourhood offices and make them write it down and get copies of what you have said and then contact dog wardens etc etc, go onto the defra website and arm yourself with as much information about the dangerous dog act you can and start making a lot of noise about what is going on, because i have been there and had to do it the reason this is short, a gsd attacked one of my dogs on a public footpath it came out of its own garden and attacked my dog, i made a huge fuss as the police did not want to do anything about it , but i went armed with enough evidence to make them go and talk to the owner of the dog, he was warned but three weeks later this dog did it again but this time bit an off duty police woman badly on the legs, as it had all been documented this dog was taken from the owner , when the dog was being taken away he said it was old anyway and he did not want it anyway, i felt sorry for the dog but i had to think what would of happened if it had been a child that got in its way, or what would of happened if it had attacked me when walking my akita or rottie who would of been to blame. Do not sit back and let him get away with this rotties have a bad enough name as it is,without idiots like him making it worse,because if your dog attacks his in self defence know one knows what went on before hand if it is not documented to anyone your word against his.
And no i do not think it is a problem to muzzle your dog i have to muzzle mine at the stables due to him eating copius amounts of horse poo and then vomiting it all over the back of the van

you see thats the trouble these days in this country, you cant state FACT! without being deemed racist

I have to agree. If you had said "Those scousers" in my road are dumping food, that wouldn't have been seen as racists, and I bet if you'd said those Swedes, nobody would have thought it either. It may be different cultures doing different things and not thinking twice about it. (I've never seen anyone in England have a party to REMOVE the decorations from the Christmas tree for instance, then if you live in a high rise flat throw the Christmas tree off the balcony at the end of the party -but to a Swede
that would be normal). In any event surely dumping food waste is illegal and will attract rats, so something to rightly be annoyed at.

ohh just want to add that the old guy who works cleaning the estate across the road from me also throws out rice he brings in from home every morning which means i have hundreds of Pigeons perched on my roof waiting for him to arrive every day then they swoop down to eat the rice he puts out and its like Trafalgar square once was back in the day plus the bird mess is very bad here, dam supose im racist against old cleaners now!!! who new :-O

In any event surely dumping food waste is illegal and will attract rats, so something to rightly be annoyed at

Thanks Goldmali we have a tenants meeting coming up and will be going to it to put our concerns as the food being put out has become very bad over the last few months i'd have to say it is worse than the kids with their chicken and chips as the kids walk certain routes so you can almost pin point where they will be and avoid , but the food now its coming out of some of the peoples windows we try not to let our dogs walk under near the windows but then you get to the park  and their is piles of rice and other stuff it smells very bad seems to be the same 3 places its getting put, wouldn't mind their a big bin next to the flats,, my poor Tai was so ill after i couldnt catch him quick enough to stop him eating some of it one time, his better now tho blooming wish it had put him off eating from the floor again but it hasnt lol,

> If you had said "Those scousers" in my road are dumping food, that wouldn't have been seen as racists

I think you might feel it was prejudice if you were a "scouser" :)

yes Judge i will speak to our bobbys when i next see them to make them aware tho i would think they already know of the man, he says it is not his dog but his nieces i tried telling him it dont matter whos dog it is its with him most of the time he is responsible,, im not the only one pee'd off round here with the destruction of the grass area which is a dog area others are to, some of the tenants didnt want the dog area their at all, i love it all fenced in safe and away from people, i can let my naughty bully boy run around and the bullies love it, its bliss watching them 2 play together and so funny, i would be seriously gutted if the council removed the fence due to this one foolish man!, i cant even blame his dog it his owner,

ohh well just call me prejudice against people then i can live with that,,, Ahhh to live in a perfect world would be dogs dogs and more dogs ;-)

I think you might feel it was prejudice if you were a "scouser" :-)

No -that's why I ALSO used a Swede as an example. But more to the point, nobody else would have thought twice about it.

The world HAS gone mad, that is for sure. Maybe I should demand there be no repeats of the Muppet Show ever on TV, or on You Tube or anywhere else, because of the way they portrayed Swedes. :)

i am sorry if i have offended anyone but i really cant do all this politically correct stuff, i think it causes more problems than anything else,, i cant help speaking my mind and i tell it like it is,, couldnt give a flying pig what race religion or gender anyone is, we are all the same on the inside!

yes well im a true blonde think they should ban all blonde jokes cos i find then offensive loool, im not thick !! not really!! oh well maybe a little!! lol

> No -that's why I ALSO used a Swede as an example.

Sorry, I should not have clipped my quote to exclude your mention of Swedes, but yes if they were singled out I think they could object just as much as the scouser.

> yes well im a true blonde think they should ban all blonde jokes cos i find then offensive loool, im not thick !! not really!! oh well maybe a little!! lol

We could trot out examples all day.  Trust me I would never judge someone on the colour of their hair. 

i was kidding Stooge us blondes do that sometimes lol

I think it is a cultural thing as an Eygptian lady who lived next to the park at my old place used to dump all her leftovers (curry, bread, rice, bones etc) on the park side of her fence. Several of us reported her to the council (she had a perfectly good garden she could have used if she was wanting to feed the birds/foxes) but she kept on doing it.

Back to the OP's original point. If I were walking in a residential area, my dog would be on the lead, no question (and don't care what other people do, that is their look-out). Get to an area where they can run free safely (and legally) and then it's leads off. Too much can go wrong if your dog's off the lead (being distracted and running into the road, jumping up at kids/strangers, chasing another animal, scavenging etc). JMO.

> Sorry, not explaining very well ( as usual ) by residential I just meant streets .

After all dogs are meant to be kept on lead near roads.  Dogs should only be off lead in Green spaces where dog are allowed off lead, on lead rules sadly now even apply to some parks, but most (except children's play areas and ornamental flowerbeds) allow dogs off lead.

You are also then not likely to have a problem if someone is 'road walking' an in season bitch.

As for the man letting his dog into you front garden, do you not have a fenced front garden with a gate?  If not then that would be my next step.

May dogs for many reasons are only walked on lead, or on lead beside a bicycle and do absolutely fine.  I would certainly always put my dog on lead when I saw this man so that you cannot be put in the 'wrong'.

A problem with the muzzle could be that it gives the impression that you are muzzling because your dog is a problem.

You certainly want it all reported to environmental health (re food waste and the vermin it attracts), adn the Dog Warden re the dog.  Even if nothing gets done it has been reposrted and make sure it is writtten up, in case anything happens in future.

CG,

I have very strong views about dogs being on lead at all times other than in designated parks, in the areas they are allowed off.

I know some people have extremely well behaved dogs that are immune to any distraction and always walk to heel. Nonetheless, I think we have to lead by example and I have had quite a few near misses with offlead intact males owned by irresponsible status-type owners.

I also know of people who have had their dogs attacked and badly injured by offlead dogs on the street. I'm sure you are also familiar with the type of person that looks either very angry that you have a dog at all and who can scarcely contain their disgust at having to be anywhere near it, or those who look on the verge of a nervous breakdown as they get within a few yards of your dog.

Let us not forget that there are members of certain inner city boroughs who actively dislike dogs (and it is sometimes cultural). They would love to ban dogs from our parks and everywhere else if possible . I really feel that for the greater good we should always have our dogs on lead and visibly under control- no matter how well trained they are and not give the anti dog contingent the ammunition they are looking for.

> have very strong views about dogs being on lead at all times other than in designated parks, in the areas they are allowed off.
>
>

Ditto, it also means that thsoe of us with in season bitches, nervous dogs, or dogs that are not good with their own kind, can safely walk the streets with our dogs on lead, safe in the knowledge that we should not encounter loose dogs.

When we choose to take our dogs where off lead dogs are allowed then we accept that they will be encountering loose dogs, and have to make up our minds if they can reliably/safely do so.

> Let us not forget that there are members of certain inner city boroughs who actively dislike dogs (and it is sometimes cultural). They would love to ban dogs from our parks and everywhere else if possible . I really feel that for the greater good we should always have our dogs on lead and visibly under control- no matter how well trained they are and not give the anti dog contingent the ammunition they are looking for.

Quite agree, I have members of a family opposite who would rather walk into the road than walk past a dog, even though the dogs are on leads.

Let us not forget that there are members of certain inner city boroughs who actively dislike dogs (and it is sometimes cultural). They would love to ban dogs from our parks and everywhere else if possible . I really feel that for the greater good we should always have our dogs on lead and visibly under control- no matter how well trained they are and not give the anti dog contingent the ammunition they are looking for.

Where's that like button !?

i know im in London but their is alot of green and park space where dogs can go its all outside my front door , i am not walking around on the main roads with my boy loose as i open my door their is one small quiet back road and the green is all in front of me then go through a small pathway to yet more green then into a big park where dogs are allowed then theirs another green area just off that which has been fenced off its a designated dog are this man lives in front of this area which is why we keep meeting, i am not walking the roads with my dogs,
it would not be practical to take my dogs out of the area on late night walks,
i understand that some people are afraid of dogs all the more reason the muzzle should make them feel better, 
i know my boy is ok with other dogs its him who has been attacked by loose dogs in the past, the last one was a pittbull and  my dogs where on leads happy to say the man who set his pittbull onto our boy that time was arrested and i only found out before xmas almost a year after  the incident that he was an illegal on the run from police in his own country he has now been deported, the poor dog was taken probable pts,, 
those people who hate dogs because of religion well i dont no what to say about that really except we are a Christian country where a mans best friend is his dog dont like it tough! sorry!!,

as for the over reacting idiots who just love to run screaming at the sight of a poodle, never mind a big dog!,, i have neighbors  who are like this and it in no way stops their young children throwing things though my front door at my dogs in the summer months when my door it open with my big gate up ,,, i think they should be teaching their children how to behave because clearly my dogs behave better than them,

I'm sure you are also familiar with the type of person that looks either very angry that you have a dog at all and who can scarcely contain their disgust at having to be anywhere near it, or those who look on the verge of a nervous breakdown as they get within a few yards of your dog

boy yes i know this!!,

i have to say tho i have had a few of these petrified people who have asked me questions when they see my dogs doing something funny one women had never stroked a dog before and was scared to death but after watching my zoobie doo with his paw on a crushed plastic drinks bottle he found in the park using it like a scooter while trying to pick it up in his mouth but as his paw was on it he just pushed it round the park under his foot , she found it very amusing and petted my boy after ,, first time ever touching a dog i found that amazing but its nice to see some people can take the time to get over their fears , i find he gets alot of friends while playing football to cos he can bend like Beckham lol, even our local police in the blue suits have had a play with my dogs when we have been out, they know my dogs are sweet hearts even if bully boys recall is not to be trusted, he's one i would never let loose unless in a totally enclosed space or he'd be off running to our nearest chicken shop :-O,  But tonight his recall in the enclosure was spot on i'd still never trust him outside it one smell and his gone amazing nose this one :-),
Thanks for the advice i will take it on board, we didnt see the man at all on our walk tonight and normally when he hears us in the enclosure he does come out but them maybe he got his dole money and is to high to come out ,, anyway was a good walk and my boy seems happy enough with his muzzle he sits perfect while i put it on him i cant help feeling bad for letting him wear it tho, but it dont seem to bother him,,

it also means that those of us with in season bitches can safely walk the streets with our dogs on lead

ohh wish i lived near you then we have people round here who let their dog out on the grass thu their balcony when its in season they dont seem to care dont watch the dog at all, i always know when their dog is in season and it is right now because a small dog who belongs to a travelers camp quite far from us always comes around sniffing poor love is out their now blooming freezing to he will be barking later and winning he did it all night long last time, and no matter how many times the man comes round here to get him in his car and take him home the little fellow will be back tomorrow lol, you have to love our plastic police (forgive me i dont know what their really called but you know the ones i mean) they once where out their for ages trying to catch the dog he had them running round like nutters lol   was sooo funny to watch and you just couldnt make it up when 2 passing police cars stopped to talk to them and joined in the chase we was all laughing so much tears rolled,, i got a nice picture of them as they finally caught the dog looool,, all because the lady loves milk tray looool,,, round here Brainless people dont give their bitch in season a second thought,

I think it is a cultural thing as an Eygptian lady who lived next to the park at my old place used to dump all her leftovers (curry, bread, rice, bones etc)
yes thats exactly what alot of people do around here i am not the only person to have my worries about this not to mention i find it quite disgusting , i dont want to be in my local park or walking along by the flats to see someone willy nilly open their window and dash a load of old food out,
my hubby works for the council on another local estate as a cleaner and the things people put out of their windows is beyonde me he has a very large tower block where he is and he has has a few near misses from a women who keeps her dog on the balcony and she throws her dog poo over onto the path under their tea room its shameful really, i will be going to my next ta meeting about the food thing as around here it just got silly, when you get wardens fining you for throwing a fag butt, but its ok to dash a pot of curry or rice out off the window,

Purely on the food thing -

Contact your local Environmental Health office - let them know if there is a problem with anyone (regardless of race, ethnic origin etc) regularly dumping food waste in public spaces. If you KNOW who it is, tell them that, (as in, if you have seen them with your own eyes, not just hearsay).

There are things they can do, with individuals and with businesses too.

I would not wait for a community meeting - report these things now, and then at the meeting you can let people know it has been reported and what has been said/what action is going to be taken.