Ok, so we have been showing for a while now so really I should know this but on reading a schedule today I am unsure....Do both open and Champ show wins in post grad have to be counted when adding up your "5 or more" first places so as not to be "over qualified" for entering a post grad class?
Thanks
Paula xx

Championship show wins only.

Thank you :-)

And only Champ show wins where CCs were on offer.

oh, I thought some shows made a point of saying in the schedule 1sts whether or not CCs were on offer? It wouldn't be the first time I was wrong though :-)

It changed quietly a few years ago.

It changed quietly a few years ago.

to only champ show 1sts? or the other way round :-)?

It used to be champ show firsts, now only CC champ shows as the other wins like Limit and Open are.

thanks...we will be in postgrad for a while yet then!

''thanks...we will be in postgrad for a while yet then!''
You can go out of postgrad when you want . If you want to take a chance with a dog that's doing well, mostly in the cards , (some people even put puppies in Limit in some breeds) you could go under a Judge that you know likes your type , likes your dog , and get a stud number qualification .

Limit can be a bit of a fierce class in our breed, even more than Open it seems. I think we might wait a bit, maybe when he turns 3 and is fully mature

JAY15 Limit can be the same in our breed but there are people who feel that  Grad/Post grad are like the showing graveyard (you could spend years in there) and leapfrog into limit.
However I would like to think that judges judge on merit of the dog and not what class they are in?? So I will be in Grad/Post Grad until she has won her way out so that she can mature.
I recently put my girl into Graduate at a Champ show and LOTS of people were asking me why because in their opinion she was too good for that class??
It was Frank Kane judging, she won 1st place and was short listed to the final 4 for the tickets....now, she didn't get it but he did say she was his No 3 and with a little bit more maturity she will be a worthy Champion! so she still made herself "noticed".......There's no rush. I just didn't want to stay in the class if she wasn't still eligible.
Thanks for the info guys. :-)
Paula

The rule is different if you are entering a Limit show though and Open shows also taken into account - I was caught out recently!!!

i was wondering about post grad as well.i have only been showing 9mnths dog show sedules are bit confusing, i have been told not to do open level at champ shows only to pg and limit its bit confusing

''i was wondering about post grad as well.i have only been showing 9mnths dog show sedules are bit confusing, i have been told not to do open level at champ shows only to pg and limit its bit confusing''
Depends on your breed and age of dog ...Open in my breeds are considered for the ''big guns''

I also have a slow maturing breed and had pressure from people to move up to limit last year - I didn't  - and he won his way out - however, I did move him up in to Open at Open shows. 

At the beginning of this year he won his ShCM which I was delighted with.

People only pressure as they don't like the competition but do what's right for your dog if they are ready for limit go for it... but if not then stay way you are!

Yes...always double check the schedules for open/limited/champ shows as they all differ slightly..luckily there arent that many sanction shows now as they are also different...

Isn't it different for non CC breeds?  i've always presumed that it is just 5 wins in my breed as we don[t have CC's yet.

as far as I am aware if you are a non CC breed you can have as many wins as you like and they don`t count towards winning out of classes as it states that 5 wins where CC`s are on offer and seeing as we will never have CC`s on offer we can choose when we move up our classes, also means non CC breeds can go into PG stakes classes and Special beginners Stakes depending on the show schedule rules :)

> Special beginners Stakes depending on the show schedule rules :-)

I know you have stated that it depends on the show schedule rules but 99.9% are on owner/handler etc etc. Having said that I was able to go into SB class at a breed club, as it was never having won a first at their particular club. I have to say that I did feel a bit odd & almost as if I shouldnt be in the class....

I don't think you should feel you have to win out of every class before you move up; it depends on the age of your dog and how much showing you do etc. I do think, however, that when you move up you shouldn't change your mind and go back down.

You enter the class you feel you have the best chance of winning..assuming your dog is still eligible for that class.
Getting into the challenge for the CC gets your dog seen twice  ......Ive won tickets from Maiden.

In my and other numerically small breeds you may also choose to enter more than one class to have more competition, or in the case of youngsters to have any chance at JW points.

Both my champion girls that have JW's were being entered in Puppy, Junior and Post Grad, and most times only won points from Post Grad.

My girl with most CC's never got her JW as you needed 10 points from Open shows at the time.  She won her first CC at our breed club show after being shown in and winning 5 classes, she was moving better and better with each class, and I don't think she would have got it on her performance in Junior alone.

By winning several classes it also cuts down your competition in the challenge, on this particular occasion a friend had also won 4 classes, and was second in one of the ones we won, so there were potentially 8 fewer exhibits in the challenge.

Of course at general champ shows we rarely have more than 5 classes per sex, but it isn't unusual to only have three exhibits eligible for the challenge.

It is no fun winning small classes, and people are as likely to drop out when wining first and seconds in classes of one or two as they are in breeds where you rarely get placed, people do like to think their win was worthy, and no matter how good your youngster may be the victories are rather hollow, yet the exhibit may be to immature for high honours, so being placed in stronger/older classes gives some satisfaction compared to being able to stand in the challenge.

Personally I think grading in both numerically strong and numerically weak breeds would be a good thing giving an exhibitor an opinion of the 'quality' of the exhibit, in addition to how it compared to the rest of the class.

>only been showing 9mnths dog show sedules are bit confusing, i have been told not to do open level at champ shows only to pg and limit its bit confusing

I feel your pain, went along to a show for first time today (only watching) and my friend was explaining a lot of this to me, some of it went in, I guess the rest I'll just pick up as I go along. I'm lucky enough to have a few people around who show regularly and can point me in the right direction. Good luck!