Are 'show breeders' puppies too expensive?

Following a conversation I had today with someone, I would be very interested in whether anyone feels this is the case and if buyers are being effectively driven away from responsible breeders towards less scrupulous individuals (cheaper puppies on free ads websites and papers for example) simply because the puchase price of a puppy from a 'show kennel' is too steep?
I know that responsible breeders incur costs for health testing, good rearing, stud fees (possibly abroad) etc and puppy prices need to reflect this investment, but would it be better to lower prices to make owning a puppy from a responsible breeder more realistic for more people?

Except in some fashionable breeds the average price of a well bred puppy is not beyond the average persons ability to save for over the course of 6 - 12 months, which is the sort of timescale they should be looking at for researching etc.

I had a couple here today going onto my waiting list for my next litter which are unlikely to be born before November or later.

In my own breed the unregistered or DLRC pups from BYB/commercial outlets cost around the same as a well bred puppy from parents who have been health tested are excellent examples of their breed and reared with the best of care.

It costs me on average around £1800 just to cover the costs of the litter (without factoring time, wear and tear, extra heating washing etc), if going the extra mile of overseas stud, or having a C section, veterinary needs etc it will be more. 

With a breed that averages just on 6 pups per litter, that means each pup has already cost £300 simply for rearing and parental health costs, stud fee etc.  Then we have the costs of keeping your line of dogs (you would only keep one or two for companionship alone).  I could add show costs, but some would say that's the hobby part.

So personally I don't believe any well reared puppy can really be sold as cheaply as some puppy farmed, desperate BYB knock down price.

I sold a puppy last year for the standard going rated for a decent puppy in the south of England, despite being out of my Champion bitch who is 2 gen MRI scanned as was the father...rare as hens teeth in England.
Short of giving him away, and Im not averse to that, how much less would you suggest?

The argument is a bit like selling Mercedes half price because they are the safest.

Most show breeders are looking to cover their costs because in most cases they only breed when there is a market or they want a pup themselves so I would be surprised if there were many charging an unreasonable amount.

The prices that leave me gob smacked are the designer crosses £1000 upwards for a crossbreed when my carefully bred, health tested and proven ancestry pup costs around the £600.

Well,  I had two families who came to me recently having visited  cheapo puppy establishments They were  horrified by the conditions in which the puppies were being reared  and  were unconvinced by the sales patter of the 'breeders'. Once they came here and saw how the puppies were being raised etc, they had no problem with my price.

Rearing a litter of puppies in optimal conditions and spending time and money on  health screening should be valued by those seeking to buy a  well bred puppy.  I am not prepared to' cut corners' and I am not a charity. I  charge a realistic price for my time and expenses. I love what I do but expect to cover those expenses and they include supporting all the 'golden oldies'  who are still around as their grandchildren and great children play near them.

There are too many internet sites selling puppies. Sadly, many excellent breeders consider advertising on them somewhat beneath their dignity. Well,  you should be on those sites advertising any litters you may have and using the opportunity to raise awareness of good breeding practice. Your ads will shine midst the dross of the 'fleed and wormed' brigade . The problem is that the puppy buyer taps into the computer  the name of the breed they fancy and these sites come up way ahead of  Champdogs and the KC puppy register.

Was going to say more but am tired. My short answer is No ! not too expensive !

I certainly don't feel well bred puppies in my breeds are priced too highly. In fact in one of them I am amazed at just how much the BYB charge for puppies. It is quite possible to get a good quality health tested puppy suitable for show or pet often for less than the price of a poorly bred specimen.

Thank you for your responses so far, much appreciated.

Just throwing this hypothetical scenario into the mix.
Suppose someone wants a well bred puppy but is on a fixed or small income (e.g. a pension or low wage) and saving £600 - £900 isn't possible in a realistic timeframe  (e.g a year).  Day to day costs such as insurance/vet bills, feeding etc are not a problem but finding the money for the lump sum (purchase) is.

I'm of the generation which was taught that you only bought something that you'd saved for. If you couldn't save enough then you didn't get it. End of.

Well if someone has saved for a year to buy a pup they would surely have put in some homework and know exactly where to spend their hard earned money. Poor quality is always expensive.

In all honesty some breeds are far too high and I can't see how they can charge the silly prices that they do.
Some show breeders do charge over the odds due to the fact that they have champions in their lines, above and beyond the normal cost for a well bred puppy of the same breed.

In general though i'm sure that they are all reasonably priced considering all that is put into a well bred and raised litter.
What I don't get is the different between some of the large breeds and what they charge, the difference being a good £200 between the breeds, there is little difference in the amount of food being eaten by the pups and the ones which are being charged at the lower price should actually go through many more health tests if doing it correctly.. So why the difference?

Should RESPONSIBLE breeders lower their prices to make their puppies more affordable? NO. Why should they? If potential puppy owners do their homework and want the assurance of decent rearing, reasonable backup and input of all the breeders hard work and knowledge they will be prepared to pay the proper price.

Are show breeders puppies too expensive Yes, in some cases. The newbie comes along, does a bit of showing, breeds from their first dog, sets up an impressive website to lure in punters and charges OTT prices despite not being able to tell you anything about the descendants on the pedigree.

>The argument is a bit like selling Mercedes half price because they are the safest.

Now where is that like button?

NO, NO and definitely NO!

A good reputable breeder IMO isn't out to earn lots of cash but to further enrich the lines of the said breed of dog.
I was at my vets the other day for vaccinations and i so happened to be sat next to a breeder of sorts who couldn't help but tell everyone in the waiting room that her Labradoodles that she breeds were the best on the market and were all prize winners at various dog shows. Not quite sure what she meant but since she said she had two other litters of other crossbreeds on the go at the same time, i couldn't help but wonder how she manages to divide her time between three separate litters and attend dog shows!
The fluffy, cuteness of a pup wins over many of the uneducated buyers which is where the BYB cashes in!
So sad but true :-(

I had an enquiry from Switzerland. One of the first queries he had  was would  my price go up  as soon as I knew who and what he was ,as some other breeders had upped their prices to him . My answer was no . There were no expenses involved for me . He travelled to my house twice.He took the pup on a flight (on the seat spoiled by staff) from City airport accompanied by us as far as customs.I myself have paid far below the rate for one of my breeds , and told the breeder off , only to be told she was thinking of the home the puppy was going to , not the price.I only had to mention I loved a breed recently and was immediately offered one by the top team involved.
You can tell the ones who do it for money , not just covering their costs.If you added up the hours of care and nurturing the income doesn't even cover the outgoings.

> Day to day costs such as insurance/vet bills, feeding etc are not a problem but finding the money for the lump sum (purchase) is.

That would be a one-off or a 'case by case' decision.  I wouldn't be averse to lowering a price for the perfect home if I knew it was right, and that the money was there for the important day to day things.  In fact better the difference go to things like insurance and training if everything else is good.

But as others have said if people have done their research then they should soon know what the average price of that breed would be and be able to save over time.

When I first started enquiring about the breed I'm in now I expected to have to save for at least 6 months to a year to afford it based on what I knew the prices were back home in Canada/US.  However I was pleasantly surprised to find that we could actually afford one a lot sooner than I had thought.  But I started making enquiries in January expecting that it would be at least October before we'd be ready to consider actually having one. 

If the situation is not an impulse buy, and we feel they've done their research and we believe it's the right home, then we wouldn't have a problem with adjusting the price for that individual situation.  But that doesn't mean that I think the price overall should be lower, particularly as our breed is one at the lower end of the price spectrum to begin with.

Re: the hypothetical question, I agree with JG. 

The purchase of the puppy is only the start of the expense and the day to day bills can build up more than some people think.  If people couldnt find the money for the initial purchase I would question whether they could afford to feed and insure a dog. A bag of dog food could cost up to £70 (not saying they have to pay those prices), puppy vaccinations and wormers wont leave you with a lot of change out of £100 where I live and insurance can be a bottomless pit.

Perhaps you could turn the idea on its head....... many of us who are successful breeders could name our price for a puppy yet dont.

> If people couldnt find the money for the initial purchase I would question whether they could afford to feed and insure a dog.

I would at present fall into that category - it would take me a very long time to save up the purchase price of a puppy. Thankfully, that's not something I have in my plans for a couple of years at least!

As to care, I raw feed and split the delivery with a family member, plus we are blessed with good butchers locally. Routine care such as wormers are very cheap online, and because I insist on treating the house with Acclaim once a year, fleas are not a problem. I can afford insurance. It is the large lump sums that can be difficult, and while family would help with any unexpected emergencies, they would not lend me the price of a puppy and I would feel embarrassed to ask!

I have recently seen mini long dachsies advertised for £1200(normally £800) and they weren't from top show/breeders or champ parents, I think they were hoping someone with lots of money was going to come  along.

I wouldn't lower my prices as I put a lot of time and effort into planning and producing my pups and others are getting the benefit, I am available for advice too.

NO!

I would like to think that reputable breeders are not greedy; however, quality does not come at bargain basement prices.  Most reputable breeders balance the books at some stage having lost a lot and gained a little (before loosing again!).

For reputable breeders puppies are not commodities, however in order to give the best to pups/Mum money has to be spent.  I've never made a penny profit on a litter, in fact I run at a loss which I accept, as money is not the motivating factor. If I were a business, I wouldn't be trading. However, leaving that aside, there is only so much loss you can endure before having to cut corners and do things on the cheap.

I don't breed pups purely to sell, but on the rare occasion I can break even on a litter then I consider myself fortunate.  If I were to reduce the price (for all pups rather than on a case by case basis) simply to satisfy the desires of another then I'd have to cut corners eventually, as I couldn't sustain the loss indefinitely and I'd rather not have a litter than cut corners just to make life easier for someone else.  Obviously, a good home is a good home, there will be several of us that have taken that into consideration and sold pups for less than we might have done simply because we are human and we take all factors into consideration.  Nevertheless, generally if you want something then you pay the going rate.

Cheap pups are cheap for a reason and that has nothing to do with the altruistic values of their breeders.

I've always fancied a top of the range sports car; can't afford one and never will be able to afford one!  I've never thought to pop into the Aston Martin dealership and mention that I can't afford the 138,150 price tag but do have £10k to spare so could they do me a good deal!  You know what the salesman would say, £10k will buy you a XXXX so go and buy one of those, this is the price of our cars and if you want one then that's the price.

Depending on your viewpoint, pups can be quite expensive but then so are many other purchases in life.  We all "cut our cloth", well reared pups aren't cheap but neither are the "running costs"!  Going back to the Aston, the purchase price is expensive but servicing/tyres/insurance is astronomical.  Even if I somehow re-mortgaged the house to buy the car how the dickens could I afford to run it?!!

Having a puppy/dog is a privilege not a God given right.  If you like, pups/dogs are "luxury items", they are lovely but they are not essential and like all none essential items, you budget for them and enjoy them if and when you can afford them. 

Like others have mentioned I'm of the belief that you save for what you want (& get there eventually). Until you've saved the money then you do without and not expect that because you WANT it but can't afford it that prices across the board should be lowered to save you having to buy a cheap pup (with the potential pitfalls associated with a cheap pup.)

Thank you again to all respondants for taking the time to provide detailed, reasoned and clear answers. Some excellent points have been made.

Another additional question now:
If someone is in the position of wanting a healthy, well bred young dog of a particular breed, but for whatever reason is unable to afford the purchase price (in a reasonable time frame of say, a year) what would their alternatives be?  It could be for instance they have recently and unexpectedly lost their previous dog so haven't anticipated budgeting/saving so soon, yet they do not want to be without a dog for a year.

If this scenario was a phone call from a potential buyer, about whom you know very little, what would you suggest?

Along the same lines, is there a necessity for cheap, 'value range' puppies (with all that implies) for those who want a dog of a particular breed yet are either unwilling or unable to pay for a dearer but more responsibly bred one?

A perfectly reasonable option would be to put them in touch with other breeders who may have run a dog on for showing who didn't work out and now looking to rehome.  Or who may have had a dog returned due to no fault of the dog.  These dogs would be equally as well bred and in many ways possibly better socialised than a young pup (ie house trained etc), but may cost less or even nothing depending on the situation.  Breed specific rescue is also an alternative.  Not all dogs in rescue are there due to bad situations.

I appreciate your questions but I'm not sure what you're really after.  Raising puppies COSTS money.  And owning a dog (even for those of use who breed) is not a RIGHT, it's a privilege.  No one HAS to have a dog though most of us on this board prefer it.  I had to live without one for 3 years when I moved from Canada to here until we knew if we were staying.  It was really hard as I had always had at least one (and usually two) 4 legged companions before moving across the pond.  But it wouldn't have been fair to a dog to get one just to 'ditch it' if we moved back (hubby from here, me from there).  Once we knew we were staying in this country we decided to look for a dog.  Ideally I wanted one in the breed I had had before moving, but there was no breeder close by that was breeding for at least another year, and at that point I felt I had been without a dog long enough, so we started looking at rescues.  I had to decide if I wanted 'that breed' and wait or I wanted a canine companion as soon as available.  For me it landed on the side of companionship as much as I loved my breed.  So we set out looking for the perfect rescue whatever breed it happened to be.  It still had to meet certain criteria, but in the end we did find one that actually began our love affair with our current breed (she was a cross).

So it's about priority.  Yes, I wanted a dog of my breed as soon as possible as I'd waited 'long enough' without a dog, but if it was truly that important to have a dog sooner than later, then I had to make some sacrifices and compromises.  If I really desperately wanted a good dog of the specific breed, then I would have had to wait.  Why should I expect someone else to be out of pocket because of my selfishness (if it had been about money rather than timing - and it very well could also have come down to affordability at that time in our lives)? 

What would a person do who's car broke down and is unrepairable, and they need it for work but don't have the funds...  That's a more realistic scenario- they NEED the car for work (it's in their job description or they work too far away etc) so should the car companies drop their prices because that person's car broke down and they can't afford one?  No - the person would find a used car or find some other alternative.

You can keep coming up with scenarios, and with every answer for that one you can find another 'what if' and another.  There will always be a reason that someone cannot afford a dog.  Heck people even balk at giving £50-200 to rescues because they 'can't afford it'.  So no matter how much breeders may lower the prices there will always be someone who can't afford whatever it is that's asked.

And back to the Commercial and BYB's?  Often they are MORE expensive, not less. 

Do I think some breeds are ridiculously expensive?  Absolutely!  But I also feel there are a few breeds that are undervalued as well.  So no, I will not be lowering my asking price any time soon (as explained above we're already at the low end of the purebred dog prices), but that wouldn't stop me considering an individual situation and I'm sure the same would be said of most breeders.  But as a blanket 'poll' question.  No.

> Along the same lines, is there a necessity for cheap, 'value range' puppies (with all that implies) for those who want a dog of a particular breed yet are either unwilling or unable to pay for a dearer but more responsibly bred one?

And the answer to that is: there already are - they're called all-breed rescues.

I recently retired and rehomed one of my girls who had never had a litter that lived, she was coming up to 6yrs old, I didn't charge for her just asked that they got her spayed within a certain time which they have done.

In the past I have paid for an older pup in 3 instalments( my puppy fund had to be used for a plumbing disaster a week before I was due to pick her up) and her breeder kept the paper work till she was paid for her.

I hate to see ads for pups wanted for free or very cheap, would they value it as much as one they had paid full price for or get rid when it was past the cute puppy stage and go looking for another.

>a healthy, well bred young dog of a particular breed, but for whatever reason is unable to afford the purchase price (in a reasonable time frame of say, a year) what would their alternatives be?

Then they can wait a bit longer till they can afford it, surely. There's a distressing modern element of "I want, I want, I want it NOW!" coming through with these questions. :-( I can't think of any situation where not having a pedigree puppy means someone's going to die, for example. If they're so desperate for 'a dog' then there are rescue centres. If they want a particular dog, then they wait till they can afford it. Having a dog isn't a right, it's a lifestyle choice.

> Suppose someone wants a well bred puppy but is on a fixed or small income (e.g. a pension or low wage) and saving £600 - £900 isn't possible in a realistic timeframe  (e.g a year).  Day to day costs such as insurance/vet bills, feeding etc are not a problem but finding the money for the lump sum (purchase) is.

Well actually I would say that if they can afford the day to day running of a dog then they can afford to save the money first to buy the dog. The cost of  keeping a dog  for a year must surely come to at least £600?

Also with regards to breaking even how exactly is that defined? On paper with some litters I might make a profit when the income from the puppy sales is compared to what it has actually cost to produce and rear the litter. But when  you consider all the costs for my other dog related activities then over all I make a large loss each year. And before you say the other expenses shouldn't come into the calculations as they are not part of the costs of producing the litter I would have to disagree.

People see my dogs being shown and worked. they get to know me through dog activities so they see how I keep my dogs and rear my pups. All this contributes to my reputation as a good breeder and allow people to,see they are buying a "quality product" if you like.

If you take all my dog related expenses into account I am already making a huge loss over all when i produce a litter but I don't do it for the money. I do it for the love of the dogs.

I keep my girls until the end and love them all dearly. To do this and pay for the cost of looking after them throughout their lives costs money and "if" you are lucky and have a larger than average litter it contributes a little to these expenses. I have had as we all have, the cost and distress of lost litters/puppies and small litters. I also restrict the number of litters to 2 at the maximum.
To keep my dogs ( currently 5 ) is also a restriction as we cannot just go out without thinking of the dogs ( minders etc ) or indeed easily go on holiday. We have even changed our careers so we can be at home with the dogs.
I would not have it any other way but puppy farmers seem to offload dogs to rescue when they are finished with, not necessarily look after them as they should so they keep a bitch for a few years solely to breed from them and then they don't even worry where they land up. You only have to look at MAny Tears rescue to demonstrate that. That is using a dog as a commodity and like Tesco, their prices should be cheap.
Sadly they are not always and people still buy from them.
Do I think some breeders within breeds are charging inflated prices - possibly but I think you have to take into account the individual breeder and the general public have to work out whether they are getting good value in the long run from their purchase and whether they think the adults in the equation are being suitably dealt with..
Yes it is true some people would not be able to afford a puppy of a certain breed but rescue is a good solution even if in our breed you may have to wait a little.

> Along the same lines, is there a necessity for cheap, 'value range' puppies (with all that implies) for those who want a dog of a particular breed yet are either unwilling or unable to pay for a dearer but more responsibly bred one?

Absolutely NOT - what an awful idea.  Why all the money questions?  Dogs aren't commodities

There are plenty of times when I want what I cannot afford but I was taught that you "Cut your coat according to your cloth".  If I don't have the money to buy what I want then I either wait, or find a compromise I can live with.  That's OK when I'm buying a product but finding and buying a puppy isn't just a question of economics though and the dilemma isn't just financial.  I suspect there are a myriad of reasons why someone is in your words "unwilling" to pay but I don't agree that responsibly bred dogs are necessarily "dearer" than puppy farmed ones.

Are you just playing devils advocate with your questions or do you have some reason for asking? 

This might be a slightly different response but if they don't want to be without a dog for a year then I would suggest continue saving and in the meantime volunteer at a rescue by walking dogs...you still get your dog fix whilst doing a very important job giving kennelled dogs attention whilst saving for yours.

If you can afford insurance, food and general dog costs then if you put this amount back each month it won't take too long to save up and if it does then so be it.  I have had the money in the bank waiting for a pup but due to unforseen circumstances no pups were available and I would have kept waiting.

My mum is currently waiting for a pup...mating was put back so by the time she gets this puppy (if all goes to plan with breeding) she would have been waiting for a couple years.  You do what you have to.

On the other hand I have had very well bred pups given to me because the breeder purely wants them in a decent home where they are shown and if things all work out well possibly a litter in the future.

> Absolutely NOT - what an awful idea.  Why all the money questions?  Dogs aren't commodities

Yes I agree.

Ive always struggled with the overriding feeling by many that breeders have puppies for the general public...the reason we do it, our aim.

Couldnt be further from the truth. If my pick of litter popped out on its own I would be delighted.
I rear a litter for me, no concern or interest in 'people who want to buy puppies' at all.
Sorry if that offends but I dont know these people and I breed to perpetuate my breeding.
Yes there are often pups I dont want to keep and I will do everything I can not to have to let them go to 'strangers'.
I will give them away to people I know and trust, send them to health conscience breeders abroad or keep them rather than offer to the open market.
Im afraid people who cant afford a puppy yet or want an economy model to suit their purpose is of no concern of mine at all.

As to your question do we want to break even...I dont even consider it but Im sure I never do...so what? Its my hobby not my job.

People who produce pups to sell may be your target audience I think.

When I give the going rate in my breed for a well bred puppy which will inevitable have at least a champion grandparent, though no-one really takes notice of that, they always seem surprised at how reasonably priced the breed is especially as our registration numbers are so low (under 50 - 100 pups in the last few years).

> Another additional question now:
> If someone is in the position of wanting a healthy, well bred young dog of a particular breed, but for whatever reason is unable to afford the purchase price (in a reasonable time frame of say, a year) what would their alternatives be? 

Breed rescue, or a breeder who has had a dog returned due to owners change in circumstances (breed rescues usually have the details of the latter too), also there are breedrs who run on two pups before choosing and occasionally retire older show dogs, or one needs re-homing due to a clash with two dogs.

so what are you saying? that show breeders are making money and others aren't?  I think you'll find that 'responsible' breeders charge about the same or even less than unscrupulous breeders who don't have the same outgoings etc.  I don't currently show but do compete with my dogs.  I do health checks and I breed occasional litters.  My dogs and agility cost a lot of money and many litters cost far more than any income from selling some of the pups.

You need to address the issues of responsibility to the puppy farmers and back yard breeders, breeders of poor quality dogs, breeders of expensive cross breeds and say shouldn't they be more responsible? shouldn't they spend more money on the dogs and on health checks etc? 

On what basis do you state that responsible breeders are 'over charging'?????

I think you'll find that actually responsible breeders simply don't breed enough dogs to cope with supply and that people though ignorance or simply lack of supply go to poor quality, often expensive, breeders.

Simply by charging less than a byb or puppy farm isn't going to solve the problems of dogs in the UK!

Along the same lines, is there a necessity for cheap, 'value range' puppies (with all that implies) for those who want a dog of a particular breed yet are either unwilling or unable to pay for a dearer but more responsibly bred one?

No, I don't think there is a necessity but there is certainly a market! There is already a "value range' for most breeds and they tend to be BYB/puppy farm/pet shop pups.  Obviously some poor breeders charge the same for their pups as responsibly bred ones but the majority do charge less.

I'm afraid it all goes back to the "I want it so I must have it but I can't afford it" scenario.  Sorry but I'm of the generation where we grew up within our own means, we didn't covet what others had and felt hard done by because we couldn't have the same.  We saved and budgeted or went without.  I don't see why dogs should be treated any differently. 

Of course it's nice to have a dog and I would be heart sore to hear that someone couldn't afford a dog of a particular breed because of the purchase price, however that doesn't stop them taking on a less expensive dog (rescue/older puppy/retired dog) provided they had the means to keep the dog well fed, healthy etc.  I'd rather they did that than went and bought a cheap pup.

I am going to see a bitch on Thurs who was returned to her breeder 2 months ago because her new owner was down sizing, she will be a year old in April.

The strange thing is I was going to buy her last year but the timing was wrong, so maybe fate has had a hand in this.

She has been attending ringcraft and is great on the move but playful on the table,better that than scared, I can work with that, she loves food so will use that as her incentive to do good.

So if all goes to plan I will be showing her with Lincoln.

So even serious breeders are open to taking an older dog if it is a good example of the breed, no guess work as to what she will look like fully grown, and fits in well with their breeding programme.

My 3 year olds will love having a new play mate, they miss their Mum and my other bitch.

Well actually I would say that if they can afford the day to day running of a dog then they can afford to save the money first to buy the dog. The cost of  keeping a dog  for a year must surely come to at least £600?

Very true, I was asked about how 'normal' people are expected to buy one of my breed and after doing a quick tally of food, insurance, grooming, vaccinations, and general dog keeping costs like toys, new lead or bed etc I hit just shy of a grand a year.  If you can afford to own a dog you can afford to save for one in a year.

Just tagging this on to the end, not replying to anyone in particular. I'm surprised at many of the answers because personally I find it is the BADLY bred pups that often are sold for more. For instance in my main breed going rate is about £650, yet I have seen some advertised for up to £2000 -without parents even having been hip scored. Looking at "that" popular puppy site for my other breed, there are seriously mismarked pups advertised for £700 NOT KC registered -I'd charge £600 for a KC registered pet. Looking at Cavaliers you find mismarked pups from parents NOT MRI scanned for almost exactly the same price as pups not mismarked with parents MRI scanned.

Same experience with my breed the commercial kennels that sell our breed were charging about £50 less than good breeders for non KC reg pups a few years back.

> Having a dog isn't a right, it's a lifestyle choice

Definitely - I can't agree more. No different to human children, if you can't afford them or can't give them the love, care and attention then do something else with your life.

> There's a distressing modern element of "I want, I want, I want it NOW!" coming through with these questions.

Yes :(

Thank you once again for your responses.

Just to make it clear these questions are intended to be 'impartial' rather than my personal views.

Someone kick me if i'm going too far off the point, but why don't people who want animals go to rescues instead?

I was allowed my first dog when I was 12, my parents probably wouldn't have considered paying for a pedigree. The day we went looking at a local rescue there was a choice of 2 dogs - a cocker spaniel bitch, spayed, vaccinated, full history, up for rehoming through no fault of her own and a male GSD cross picked up by dog warden in Wellingborough. Of course I chose the GSD with no history etc, as he was a pup of approximately 5 months. He died when I was 24, by which time of course I had had him half my life. I was not concerned that he was a crossbreed, I was just happy to have been able to share my love and life with him. I had a financially difficult period where I lived on a food/clothing/toiletries budget of £7 per week (this is after he was fed and looked after) as the thought of having to rehome him was devastating and I did everything I could to keep him, which I did.

I am now in a much better position and have 2 pedigree bitches who I love just the same as I did him and yes I probably still spend more on them than I do on myself!!!

Someone kick me if i'm going too far off the point, but why don't people who want animals go to rescues instead?

Personally (apart from everything else) I couldn't afford to. Too much of a risk of ending up with major health and temperament problems. I want to know what I'm getting.

Not to mention that rescuing isn't always appropriate or possible for some people. Rescues are often (rightly or wrongly) selective about who is permitted to have their dogs. (As discussed in a recent thread).It may be as well that the person might want a particular breed that isn't often in rescue.

That's where breed rescues come into their own.

I have jsut arranged for a friend of ours who wouldn't be able to afford a puppy right now, to have a 3 year old dog just coming into rescue due to new baby coming, both parents work and the lady is ahvign a hard pregnancy and can't cope with the dog beign bou ncy when they finally get home.

This family have wanted a dog for a while, but had an elderly cat who woudln't have coped, she died recently, and they have been lookign after a neighbours dog for holidays etc.

So in a few days we are driving up to Stafford to meet up with the family who are bringing the dog part way.

If nothign suitable would have come up then they would have waited and saved.

I imagine any responsible breeder who has bred more than one or two litters over the years will have had to help re-home one of their breeding at some point. 

That's where breed rescues come into their own.

Well in Malinois you might as well call the show lines and working lines two different breeds as they are so different and there is no breed rescue for the working dogs. There may be two or three show line dogs per year through BSD breed rescue (and if a Laekenois, well I've never even heard of one in rescue) -so anybody wanting a particular breed may well not be able to if they are determined to only have a rescue.

> Not to mention that rescuing isn't always appropriate or possible for some people. Rescues are often (rightly or wrongly) selective about who is permitted to have their dogs. (As discussed in a recent thread).It may be as well that the person might want a particular breed that isn't often in rescue.

but surely a good breeder should be every bit as picky as a rescue? I know I am.

I think we are talking of suitable persons who maybe don't have the money, or those who are met with blanket criteria, like not homing a neutered rescue to a home with an entire dog, or those who won't home larger breeds with children, but the family are more than capable etc.

Breed and breeders re-homing may be more able to work on a case by case basis when vetting.

but surely a good breeder should be every bit as picky as a rescue? I know I am.

I'm not, because I will sell pups even if they are NOT going to be neutered, and even if the owner already has other dogs not neutered. I will sell a pup to a home with a young child if the circumstances and the people are right, and I would sell a pup to a good experienced home despite it not having a large garden. So many general rescues have got their criteria all wrong.

I am paying over 2 grand for mine- the price of large breed dogs in Canada I guess. Have done my research and will be 2 yrs that I have been talking
to my breeder. When I was looking and talking to other breeders this is what they cost.
I am not sure, guess totally depends on the individual.

What I don't like is where breeders charge more do to color, saying rare ect, or show puppies. You don't no if the pup has show
potential at just 2 months of age.

I really like my breeder and they have been a great help and have answered all my questions- hopefully I get
to meet them all soon- looking very forward to it.