Hi all ,
I havent posted on here for a week or so , im but im sure you are all awear i have a 12 and a half week old brown Newfoundland bitch Cru'Ella.
I am , at the moment quite concerned , Ella is a darling , and i would not swop her for the world,but im having problems with her ... and to be honnest im not sure HOW serious they are ( this is where i need the help!!)
I'll set the situation first.
Normal day ~ Hubby in bed ( works nights ) i get up ~ feed dog~get kids ready~hubby gets up and drives us all to school~come back~hubby back to bed~take dog for short frolic~brush her~hse work~pick up 3 yr old at 12~Give Ella lunch~hubby up at 1 ish~pick up 5yrold at 3~cook tea~eat bout 5~hubby to work at 6~feed dog~kids in bed at 7.30 ish~me and Ella alone all evening.
As you can see , i spend the most time with her.
She seems very defiant of me , she is constantly barking at me when i tell her "no!" for biting , she will bark and bark right in my face and nothing i do seems to discourage her,untill i eventually shut her in her room.She dosent behave this bad with any of the other family members~just me ( not saying she's a saint with them!) but its starting to worry me , she actually scared me last night~she weighs 3 and a half stone and was jumping at my face ( of course we are NOT allowing this ~but how is the best way to make her know its wrong ? she dosent listen to no , grabbing her snout or scruff).
I want nothing more than to have a well behaved dog , and im trying everything i can think of , we dont smack as we dont want her to fear hands , we dont shout so she will not fear voices,we just raise them to say no.we make her sit to greet guests , she gets brushed twice a day and lays perfectly for that , and is an angel for me on the lead.
Thats the funny thing , she behaves best for me in every way .. its like shes pushing me .. im happy if this is the case .. im sure it is , but i dont know how to respond to make her know i wont put up with it ... with out frightening her.
I hope its just a puppy thing , im not forgetting that at 12 weeks she is still very much a baby , but im sure that she should know the definate "no nos" ie~jumping at your face,biting you etc ... but i cannot make her stop....
I feel like im failing , and i sooo dont want to ..i feel silly that i cant think of ways round this , and im sure she may be starting to sense my worry or apprehension.
I dont want to give the wrong impression ~ i am not giving up ~ no way ! i certainly dont think i have a vicious dog ( shes a pup for heavens sake ! )~i just know that i must inforse these ground rule now while she is 3 and a half stone ...and not in 4 months when shes a lot heavier and bigger !!!!
I am all out of ways HOW to inforce them.When i keep sticking her in her room i then get worried as we dont get play time together ~ and as shes ok for hubby he plays with her a lot ~ will she have less of a bond with me if i keep shutting her away for biting and barking?? ( how many stupid things can go around one persons mind ???!!)
I really would love some advice , my quandry in a nut shell is how do i stop her ~ if shutting away is the only answer will it effect our relationship as we will not have as much time toghether? will she bond with me less as all i'll do is evict her to her room all the time ??
help !!
Zoe and a wee bit naughty Cru'Ella x x x x

you will hate me for this zoe, but have to say that I think your no shouting/no smacking policy is wrong. I agree that there is nothing worse than someone continually shouting or smacking, but there are occassions when the short sharp shock treatment does the trick. I would judge this to be one such occassion.

thankyou Sam.
I must also stress that we have had dogs in the past , and have allways used a "wop" ( rolled up newspaper) . we were trying not to this time round~thought the dog would be happier etc ..but its so much harder doing it this way ... not to mention it appears not to be working !
I think i may get a wop ready tonight...
Do you think she will dislike me though if i wop her ? and where ~ backside..snout?

Smack her on the muscley part of her back leg (thigh sort of area) and you won't do her any harm. She'll probably sulk for a while but she will get over it and won't hate you for it.

After you've smacked her don't make the first move to be with her again - let her come to you and things will be fine :)

Good luck and I hope things get better.

Fiona
x x x

thankyou ,
I think ive been making a few mistakes , if i take her to her room and leave her there a while when i let her out allthough i dont talk to her as i do , i am almost allways the one to make the first move so to speak.

Any ideas why its mainly me she is like this with ?

Because you're the one that's with her so she knows how far she can push you :) My cocker used to be like this until I took her in hand - now she only plays my hubby up as he doesn't 'punish' her.

Dogs, like children need to know their boundaries - it helps them feel more secure in their pack position.

Fiona
x x x

Zoe,
Even when you 'take' her to a room, you're giving her some type of feedback on her behavior. It gives her a chance to resist or fight you....
Have you just tried walking away and leaving her alone? It's a bit more neutral and you don't get into trying to grab on to her and creating a chance for her to react to you instead of think a moment on her own.
best wishes on this and don't give up :)
regards,
toodles

Ive tried turning my back ~ she then lunges at my back and bites it ~ i then dont know wether to tell her off again or ignore her again ( have tried both ... ignoring is more painfull as she continues to bite) if i walk away she follows me barking and barking .. lunging also.
Perhaps i should go upstairs ? get straight up and leave her ?
The other thing i noticed last night was she whinned a few times.She has never done that before even when we first got her.Maybe she was bored , or maybe she feels uneasy as she dosent know where she stands.
Its been a bad few days , as her behaviour only towards me has made me feel she dislikes me .. so maybe she is picking up on my worried vibes.
So , now the quandry is whether to go with walking away upstairs .. or the "wop".

Hi Zoe

Was it only a few weeks ago when I was concerned that you were so excited about your new pup and may feel let down at times once you got her

It sounds as if you might be being too gentle - if this was one of your children cheeking you and constantly pulling at you what would you do , slap them, shout, get cross or just gently berate them? There is no crime in getting cross with a pup and letting it know that it has pushed you to the limit and if it goes further it will be punished - dragged to another room with no eye or voice contact and shut away until you are ready to receive her into your presence again.

Good luck

Christine

thanks for the advice , allthough i do feel id be just as upset if i Hadnt been so excited to get her ! i dont feel im upset because i was excited.Im more worried because i know what a big powerfull dog she is becoming , and i dont want to let her or anyone down by not training her correctly and letting an unobediant dog loose on the world !

Hi Zoe - I had the same with Willis - GD puppy at about the same time. I started to think he was a devil dog - he was SO defiant. I had to resort to a slap on the thigh area and a few yells right in his face - well he sat back down like he had had the shock of his life. He's now 19 weeks, and knows how far not to push me.

Oh, and don't feel guilty about getting some time out - put her in her own room for a couple of hours and give yourself a break :)

I don't know, Zoe, I haven't dealt with a large breed puppy in years. I can sympathize with the jumping/biting back..that sounds painful to you.

She's doing the 'moving target' assault when you're walking away. You could try the 'quick turn - loud "NO"' when you know she's about to jump on your back. If she keeps jumping up or grabs on to your leg... then the paper roll. The sound will put her off more than any hurt.

She does need to learn early that 'no' means 'no'. Perhaps the 'wop' after your "No" is ignored.
If your past methods of training worked with your dogs and you had a happy life with them once they learned.... go back to it. It's nothing to be ashamed of, imo.
If your mood settles to normal calm assuredness again, I'm sure she'll be a lot happier because YOU are happy. Don't forget that emotions are easily contagious, esp. when she's around you ALL of the time :)
good luck,
toodles

Zoe - if she were mine i'd wack her with the news paper!
Murph was like this with me and a couple of wallops and its all but stopped -it's attention seeking ! and any attention will do ,whether it be good or bad .
As to why she does it to you ,my theory is it's the same as the kids -you spend more time with them so you have to be at fever pitch before they listen whereas hubby only has to grunt and they hang on his everry word ,
You're not a failure -we've all been there ( me more than most )
chin up
Liz :)

I thank you all so much for your help at tis time , its very easy to feel alone and that this ONLY happens to you.Im just glad i found this site before i got Ella.
Ive made the dreaded newspaper roll , we shall see how things go tonight when were alone ..
How ever ... sods law or what ! she's being an absoloute angel right now ! im sure Saul thinks im making it all up!
Zoe x

another thought Zoe...a newspaper roll is quite solid & to be honest you would have to give a fair old wop with it to make much impact.....something small & stingy is much safer and effective as you only need a tiny flick...like a flyswat or best of all a riding whip. Sometimes even the noise it makes is enough. I have a hound who has never known what it is to be smacked with anything, but when sudden discipline is needed I only have to reach up to my hunt whip which hangs by the door.....instant effect...she does what she is told...she simply hates the noise it makes when I crack it.

Zoe, I'll admit to not having read this right through, but I think she is like it with you because you are with her all the time, try ignoring her for a few days, only pay attention if she is doing as you wish. Jackie

could be right Jackie , thanks
It will be very hard to ignore her though ... she's allready sniffing round for play time , maybe i should start , then when she's bad ( inevitable) cut it short for toight .. no more play
Thats the other thing , i never know how much time i should devote to her.How much is too much? she isnt so spoilt that she cries when we leave her , shes fine if we go out...but most of the evening is devoted to her.
Any thoughts on why she has been whining ??? its almost like shes bored.

I would say she is whining so you pay her attention, and you ask how much play, well how much time do you want to play, when you have had enough, thats enough. She is in your home as a guest and she will have to get used to that so the sooner the better. Grit your teeth and make your life a bit less puppy centered. No way can you live with a big self centered Newfi who thinks you are there for her benifit. The longer you leave it the harder it will be to convince her she is not the centre of the world. Jackie

thank you for all your help
You are right , i tend to do everything around her in the evenings~we play , she gets brushed , then we do training ,and play more~i only rest when she decides its sleep time! tonight im trying to curb that..as you say , the sooner the better.I just feel wicked , as though im ignoreing her !
Zoe x

think ive found a solution!! ill post later
zo xx

Hi, I have 2 thirteen month old newfs and although youre right to stop it' dont feel too bad. it is typical newf puppy behaviour.

i must say that has really put my mind at ease !! also floozy , regarding excercise , how much is too much ??i feel that Ella could take more than she's getting but im so worried i'll over do it that i tend not to.
She has a 5 min frolic in the field thats litterally behind my back garden , its full of long grass and she loves it.Bunny hops all over the place,after 5 mins or so i bring her home again the long way ( i say long way , its only 2 mins~just instead of going right into the back garden we go round the other way so she has some lead time ).We do this roughly every other day.She can come and go in the garden when she likes.
She tends to have loads of energy in the evenings , which is what makes me think she may not be getting the excercise she needs...but id hate to give her too much.She is afterall , still tiny !

Well the experts including my vet says newfs shouldnt be walked until they are 6 mths due to their hips, but when she was small enough my lucy I carried around and let her walk every now and then. even took her out in a trolley much to the kids embarrassment! drove her around in the car etc. You will know when she has had enough. Her littermate I got at the age of 6 mths as it didnt work out with his owners. He had not been walked at all I think and was totally unsocialised, very scared and actually fear aggressive. He was like a wobbly colt at first and has one hip that is not as good as the other. Lucy on the other hand has no joint problems and is a joy on and off the lead. so although the experts would say otherwise, if I get another pup one day I will do the same, start with 2 mins down the road then slowly increase each day and if she seems more tired than usual, cut back.

Have never heard anyone suggest that they should not be walked at all under 6 months old. There are lots of Newfis in the show ring at 6 months who have obviously been exercised and are developing well. If you have a pup with bad hips then you will be advised by your vet what sort of exercise but if you have no problem with your dog then whatever the breed it should be exercised very little to start with with gradual increase just as you would yourself if you took up jogging.

A pup of six months that had had no exercise would be in real trouble, it would not have the strengh to hold it's own body weight, you will see this happen with a dog that has been kept in a cage and not allowed to exercise.

So anyone who has a new puppy, walk and carry until they have had their injections and then starting with about 5 mins increase week by week until they reach 12 months when their should be no need to control the work they do as they will stop when they have had enough. You should avoid puppies jumping up and down on furniture, running up and down stairs or playing with heavier or boystrous dogs.

So steady walking under control is what is required and long before six months.
Jackie

I admit to not having read all of this thread, but I DO recall lots of different things being done to this pup - in my humble opinion enough to confuse anybody.

I recall all sorts of advice being given, most of which seems to have been tried in a very short period of time. Zoe, my experience is that the more you grab a pup's muzzle, the more you alpha roll or just keep physically trying to get on top of a pup, the pup learns that this is acceptable behaviour from, and to, pack members and starts to try controlling by being aggressive in a defensive way. The dog is confused and unsure what good behavour is.

This seems to be exactly what is happening with Cru'Ella in my view. You have all sorts of advice on here and my view is that it isall making your relationship with your girl worse. Many people do smack, hit, and give short sharp shocks but at the end of the day I feel the previous advice to muzzle grab, roll etc is causing all this :( the trouble is that the damage has been done. Sure, a short sharp shock may work - but what to do the next time, if there isone?

I have a trainer friend who has been involved with dogs for many years. She says that any punishement should only be necessary a maximim of 3 times, or it becomes abuse and the dog has learnt nothing anyway. I agree with her.

For her sake, please, get her to pup classes as quick as possible.Book her in now if you havent alreadydone so. A good teacher will help you and show you how to be consistent.

As you are also experiencing a wealth of confliting information and time is of the essence, here, I would also recommend a reputable behavourist. It could really save the whole situation. Ask your vet for a referral, that would be my recommendation, as you won't get to pup class for a while and you need responsible help NOW :)

Good luck.

Have you got the Perfect Puppy yet? :)

Hi Zoe,
I was not going to post a thread, because I thought you would find a method that suits you and your dog. But I must say that I feel Lyndsey and muddydogs are over reacting some what. I must remind you she is a 12 week old puppy, just like every other puppy, she is testing the water.
I have had to use different method with all my newfs over the years. One didn't react to anything other than a smack, one hates being ignored. I have never used the alpha roll as I didn't fancy trying to roll a 12 stone newf over, but it works for some people.
When do you start puppy trainning classes?
One of the things I do is have quite time, when my daughter goes to bed of a night, the dogs all go to their places around the house and we all chill out. They all work their way into the lounge and end up at my feet, but they know this is my time to relax. But this has taken me a great deal of time to master and it is like everything, you need to have alot of patience. I am still battling on with Pip (22 months). She went through a stage of growling and nipping (always at my feet, nobody elses). I do not believe in sending a dog to bed when it is naughty as i feel they start to resent their beds, but I use to hold her muzzle closed, a strong no and then walk away from her. I never had to do this more than a few times, because she didn't like being ignored. She even tried sitting right in front of me, while I was watching Eastenders one night (the cheak), but I turned off the telly and started reading. Its a battle of wills and you will win. She is getting a lot of your attention and feels she has the right to demand it when she wants, try getting hubby to give her a groom or get the children involved, so you are not on a one to one basis with her all the time.
I do strongly recommend puppy classes, but I don't think a the dog needs to see a thearpist (sp).
Once she starts classes and you lay down some ground rules, that YOU stick to, then she really will be a great dog. Also have a chat with your breeder, ask her what mummy was like, I am sure she can give you some tips, and never feel embarassed or ashamed to speak to your breeder as this is your first Newfie and if she anything like me, she will like being needed once in a while, Oh and you said you were going to go to a water group with your breeder, she may be able to show you some methods she used on Mum.
Don't let things get you down, just look forward to her getting her first certificate at her water group and doing you proud.
Best Wishes
ILOVEDOGS :) :)
(sorry a bit long winded, just got alittle bit wound up with lynsey comments)

I tend to agree with ILD....and also would suggest that you speak to the breeder to find out how she deals with such problems.

:( :( :( I do hope you manage to sort it out Zoe:)

ILOVEDOGS
As usual you have managed to put my mind at ease ! i can tell you are a Newf breeder by how laid back and relaxed you are ~ and you seem to say just what i want to hear !
My original post on here was perhaps a little alarming , i didnt mean it to sound so diar (sp?!).Things are not dreadfull , i guess i just need reasuring im not alone !
I certainly havent confused her and i dont feel she needs to see a behaviourist ...or i hope not yet ... but i certainly wouldnt say anything against them. i just wanted opinions on how you all controlled your pups , as my methods are not working.
I dont have any other dog owner friends to chat to so i rely on you guys !
As i said , the saying "NO" was new to me , as id allways used a wop before , and this was a waste of time , as im sure Ell translates no to mean "oh , go on then " so it was great to hear that so many of you use so many different techniques.I guess i overlooked the fact that i may have to try several before finding one that suits her ~ i thought she would fit around my chosen method ( derr !!)
Last night i decided that she wasnt going to beat me , when she started , i told her no firmly , she began the usual~barking back with wagged tail.So instead of locking her away or turning my back i got straight up , walked out the front room and shut the door behind me leaving her in the room alone.Madam DID NOT like this ! she has never been alone in the front room before , she whined and cried.I left her a min or two then opened the door and sat down.She came over with her tail between her legs.We had only one more incident that evening , i did the same again.She was good the rest of the evening , and i didnt devote so much time to her.
Its one of those things where the answer is so logical that you cant see it ! with her lead training~if she pulls she is doing so to get there faster~so i stop~letting her know pulling DOSENT get her there.So , now she will learn that barking at me to play fight with her makes me leave her....lets hope she cottens on !!!!
I certainly will talk to the breeders this weekend , i need to talk to them about her feeding too , as im not entirely happy with how she eats ~ and as you say im sure they'd love to hear from us other than thousands of emalied pictures !!
Thankyou all for your help and suggestions , esp. thoses with Newf's , as i have owned dogs in the past ~ but they are nothing like my bundle of fluf ! its very relieving to hear from other owners what their little Newf's get up to... not many 12 week old pups out strength their owner when they pull on the lead ~ but Ella does allready !
Please keep posting to all my riddiculous worries ! im sure there will be more to come !
I must mail you some pic's one time ILOVEDOGS
Zoe x x Cru' x x x x

Hi Zoe,
By all means email me kelshenewfs@aol.com. I am having trouble with aol at the moment as they keep telling me I am idle, when I am typing away (they sound like my hubby) and then they throw me out
If you email me, then I can reply to your email direct and I may be able to return some pictures of my gang. Its at times like these when I wish I still lived over there as I would loved to have met up with you and Ella, I live in Ireland now, in the middle of no were, I do have a little village/town I suppose you could call it, theres one shop and a pub!! its great for the dogs.
Sorry getting abit of track and I have already tried to respond twice, but got thrown out, so forgive me if i do not answer your posts straight away.
Best Wishes
ILOVEDOGS (Amanda) :)

Sorry Zoe but I wanted to say, get a halty (sp) they are a lead attachment that goes around the mozzle, but doesn't restrict the movement of the dogs head, you attach it to their collar and when the dog pulls on the lead, you pull it gently and the dogs head will turn to the side, they don't like this. I didn't get Storm until she was five months as she was given back to her breeder as they couldn't cope and she called me as I got Hudson from her!!! she was terrible on the lead and a newfie friend suggested a halty, and after a couples of pulls, she was walking at heel, all the dogs have them now, but they don't have them around their mozzles all the time, I put them on if they are being especially bad. Walking four Newfs can be a task, the gsd are great, they don't give us any trouble, they are very well trained dogs, a credit to there pervious owners. Sorry just try to think of little things that have help me survive being owned by Newfoundlands. .
Best Wishes
ILOVEDOGS

I Love Dogs,

I am sorry if you got wound up by my comments, luckily we are all allowed to post our thoughts and believe me, most of us do so.

I feel it was not helpful of you to say that my post wound you up - sniping doesn't help. I get wound up just as you do, but these days try hard to be tactul. THere is absolutely nothing wrong with having a different viewpoint, or making a suggestion, as i have been doing on this board for many many months :).

Give advice by all means, and make suggestions, as we have all done so far, in peace and harmony :D but please leave the personal comments behind :) That way we all get on and no-one feels they dare not speak.

(By the way, it's Lindsay and not Lynsey , that is another poster)

Lindsay

Hi Lindsay,
My opinion was that you may have over reacted a little, I am sorry if you felt I was "sniping", but I can assure you I was not, I felt your response may have caused Zoe unnecessary concerns and that you may have scared her a little, rather than help her, I was simply pointing out that the puppy was no different from other puppies of the same age.
In regards to saying it wound me up, well it did! I am being honest, I did not make any snipes at you personally, just your idea. I am well aware what the board is for, but I thank you for taking the time to point this out to me!
Best Wishes
ILOVEDOGS

:P lets not fall out anyway :)

Zoe did state originally that she was feeling afraid of the puppy. My own view is that, although she seems to feel better now, at the time she posted she seemed in need of help on-the-spot, rather than advisors (including myself) not able to see the situation.

I agree her pup isn't any different to any other, but some people can cope and some can't. We are all different after all :) and in my view, better to sort it out andhave help when needed. Less stress :p for human and pup.

I wouldn't hesitate to call in a behaviourist if i was having trouble; i know a few locally and personally, so have no problem with it, and also know, having shadowed them, that many pup owners are so grateful to be actually shown, and also that they don't have to hit etc. after all :)

If i was honest too, there have been many posts lately that have really upset me, and had me gritting my teeth but the trouble is, if we all said to each other "so and so's post wound me up" there wouldnt be a board left after a while :p

:) Lindsay

Hi Zoe,

I have an 8 mth old newfie bitch called Demon and sometimes she gets a little ahead of herself thinking she's boss.
Trust your own instincts with Ella and if she is doing something you don't like stop her but remember she is only a puppy and try to be gentle.Her size can be a problem in this respect as you tend to think she's big enough to know better. This was brought home to me when I saw a friend of mine with a lab puppy the same age as my girl and it was only half her size!!!!
When we first got Demon she was great but as time went by and she became used to us she began to act up, esp on me as I am around her most and it took endless patience and bribes to gain her attention and persuade her to behave. She is much better now ( not an angel by any means).
Also we started using a rolled up paper as I broke my wrist and I found that after a couple of smacks on the thigh, depending on what she was or was not doing at the time as to how hard the slap, she now instantly stops when she sees the paper aproaching. Sometimes when she starts mis behaving all I have to say loudly is "where's the paper" and she starts behaving again.
If she keeps jumping up on you each time she does catch her just at the chest area and push her down - she will get the idea eventually.

Try not to get disheartened and I promise it will get better.Try find an obedience class in your area and train her to sit, lie down and stay and if you are eating I found if you put her to bed or refuse to allow her in the room you are eating (within sight works best though) she will get used to seeing you but not being in your face all the time.
Lets face it Newfies are lovable and while we wouldn't swap them for the world when they sigh and slump down onto the floor and look reproachfully at you, it tears your heart out.

Sorry this was so long, hope the reasurance helps.

Brenda

PLease don't forget to reward her when she does the right thing, Zoe. Just wopping her is much better than a muzzel grab but she may become shu of your hand, and even start to destroy newpapers!!!
Also there have been instances of dogs, actually attacking an innocent man reading a paper because the dog, a rescue BC, had been punished this way.

If you get a good book it will tell you how to interract, how to ignore, how to stop whining, how to stop the pushy behaviour. I understand you get frustrated and concerned, but please please try to understand what Ella does and why. It will be horribley unfair if you punish her and she does not understand. She will start to get growly and to fight back.

Have you stopped the play fighting? with all family members? or this will give even more confusion :( Playing with toys etc is good, and builds up a relationship, but rolling on the floor with the dog all over the place and pretending to fight will really not help Cru'Ella.

hi Zoe, and lindsay, I havent answered on this thread, but was thinking about your pup last night. I have to say I totally agree with Lindsay:) I would also suggest you contact a professional, whether it be a good trainer or behaviourist to observe you and your family interacting with your pup. Everyone is trying to help, but it is extremely difficult to post advice when it has escalated like this, and you have tried various methods, without actually seeing the pup in action - what to one person is bolshey bordering on nastiness to another might just be boisterious puppy behaviour, (thats not meant to read that you are blowing it out of proportion at all, I dont mean that at all, I dont think you are, I mean its hard to get a view of exactly how pup is reacting to all of you, you are right, you need to sort this now:) ) I also feel that your pup is coming back atcha , so to speak, I have seen it with puppy mouthing, whereby the 'ouch' makes the pup think ooh thats interesting, I can make that human make squeeky noises!, or the smack on the nose makes it snap back, all breeds have different temperaments within that breed and so I personally feel have to be dealt with as individual, once the behaviour has been defined - your pup may be thinking she is having a grand old game with you and is doing nothing wrong, she may on the other hand be really pushing you to your limits. I find it interesting that she challenges you, in my house I would be the last person the dogs would try it on with, my hubby is lower down the scale to me and I get more respect :D My personal opinion is that you should get advice from someone that can come as see your pup reacting to you and your family, in your home enviroment and also outside with you. Hope that helps Julie:)

HI Zoe

I am having dreadful problems with my private email programe again so I do apologise if you got a mail from me with just the one letter on it!!!

As for the behaviourist, take a peek at www.ukrcb.co.uk and look under members for Carol Price.

I'd also recommend maybe reading a dog magazine every month, YOur Dog is easily available from Smith's and gives good training tips, and it's also fun to read the problem page and commiserate with other owners :D ;)

Lots of luck and keep going Zoe!!! :)

Lindsay

I've just caught this thread. Zoe, I agree with Lindsay in that you have had a wealth of info and ideas on here which all goes to prove that there is more than one way to skin a cat! As Lindsay says, if you are not careful you will be trying too many things without giving any one method time to work and be so doing completely confusing your puppy!

There is an old saying, "When you are up to your **** in alligators it is difficult to remember that the object of the exercise was to drain the swamp!"

Number one/ Don’t let anything happen (or her do anything) which you don’t want because if you do then at sometime in the future you are going to have to stop it and stopping is harder than preventing.

Number two/ Familiarity breeds contempt! An old saying but true. She is use to you and does not feel she has to be on her best behaviour. One word commands issued once then enforced if they are not obeyed! By the same token, try to never issue a command if you are not in a position to enforce it.

Number three/ ANY physical punishment which involves pain, (a smack) should not be seen by the puppy! If she gets the idea that hands hurt then rather obviously, guard against hands getting too close! Think about the bitch, what would she do. It is physically impossible for the bitch to smack her puppy, her paws don’t work like that!!! I prefer to take my puppy by the loose skin an each side of the neck, lift the front paws off of the ground and read the riot act! One last thing on correction, If you always use your severest correction you have nothing left for the real emergencies. Also your puppy gets "Conditioned" to a harder regime

For what it's worth, pick a method you feel at home with and stick to it. Consistent handling will achieve far more far quicker than chopping and changing.

Just my thoughts. John

I agree John,and as usual you have put my thoughts much more succinctly than I do ;)

The reason I suggested a behaviourist is because Zoe herself seems so upset and worried - and we as advisers cannot see exactly what does go on - as Muddydogs also pointed out. A reputable one will clarify, give training help and also explain exaclty what is going on. Hopefully the puppy trainer will also do this, to an extent, but I felt Zoe needed help pronto as she seemed very upset :(

I feel the behaviour is pretty normal really, but at the end of the day all the advice received on here, plus the advisers being unable to see the interaction, is a recipe for later problems.

I agree consistency is the key, but I also feel Zoe does'nt understand how to enfore the law with a pup, and that it needn't involve physical punishment for every small misdemeanour. It's important too to givet the pup a chance to behave correclty, in my view, so that it then understands what is actually required.

For instance i always praise Banya for just lying doing nothing, as that is really good for an active BSD!!! :D I feel if only Zoe could buy the book I recommended and implemented the strategies she would be fine and not worry so much :)

I agree too that smacking is not what a dog would do - that to me is treating puppies too much like children, which at the end of the day, they aren't. As you have probably gathered John :) I choose not to physically punish, but if I did I would do exactly what ou have described as I feel it is the best way, but as you also point out, correction of this kind must be used judiciously :)

LIndsay

I know a behaviourist who gives advice to new puppy owners too. She just gives general advice on how to raise puppy's and is there to reasure them as well. She's had quite a few of these sort of clients.

Helen

Yes, it doesn't necessarily mean the pup is bad or totally untameable, sometimes it just helps to have someone there actually on hand, seeing for themselves what is happening, and saying "When the pup does that, you can do this and this will then happen" etc. :)

Reassurance can be worth its weight in gold to pup owners :) and much as I love this board, we can't seriously give more than general advice for problems ;)

Lindsay :)

yes Lindsay and Helen, thats exactly the sort of thing I had in mind too! oh well Julie:)

:)

ZOE

My b/c pup is doing all the same things as Cru'Ella. It did start to get me down too especially as I'm the one that spends the most time with him. It can get confusing what to do. However you give me hope that I'm not alone and my dog isn't going to turn in to a wannabe pitbull. If you feel down and want to chat my email is jilldes@btopenworld.com. Good luck
xx

Hi all ,
I havent been on the board much of late , i have found a great new board for Newf owners ( thanks Ann!!)
Its called Newf net~any one thats interested.
I want to thank you all for trying your best to assist me , but also want to say that Ella is now doing fine ! without so much as one sinlge wop !
She has calmed down soo much in the last two weeks , really seems to have found her place in our pack , and definatly KNOWS im boss now !
She follows me round like a shaddow and i talk to her likes shes my best friend.She still has "devil dog" ~ her side kick second personality~ show through every now and then , but i know when enough is enough now , and i know how to stop her !
I was very upset to think id have to resort to wopping her after we'd talked about not wopping , so im over the moon that we've been able to find alternative ways.I dont have to alpha roll/shout/smack or wop~ and now , if she's been too lippy ( not her ~ but "devil dog" side kick you understand! ) she will roll over onto her back and look up at me !
I cannot believe the change .. but boy do i like it !!
So thank you all for being there for me and advising.
Oh , and if any one is interested in the two little "magic " piece's of advice i was given from the U.S Newf net site email me !!!
Zoe and Ella ( occasionally Devil Dog too !! )

i'm glad all has gone well Zoe :)
Lel

thank you ! me two ! .. thou as i write Devil dog is attacking slippers !

HI IVE GOT TO ADMIT WHILE SCROLLING DOWN I READ THAT PEOPLE TOLD YOU TO HIT THE DOG WITH A ROLLED UP NEWSPAPER. THIS IS THE WORSE THING TO DO . I KNOW SOMEONE WHO WAS TOLD TO HIT THERE DISRUPTIVE DOG WITH A NEWSPAPER AND MADE THE SITUATION A WHOLE LOT WORSE . WHEN THE DOG EVER SAW A NEWSPAPER (SOMEONE READING ONE) SHE WOULD WEE AS SHE ASSOCIATED IT WITH BEING SMACKED. HAVE YOU TRIED GIVING HER TEDDIES I KNOW THIS SOUNDS STRANGE BUT IT DOES WORK!!!! IT KEEPS THEM OCCUPIED OR THEY MIGHT LIKE TO SLEEP WITH THEM IT REMINDS THEM OF WHEN THEY WERE WITH THERE BROTHERS AND SISTERS.

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