should you give raspberry leaf tablets to a pregnant bitch i am sure i read somewhere that you could as it helped for an easy birth but can't remember where i saw it any one know

Dorwest herbs do Raspberry tablets for pregnant bitches, I think the dose is 1 tablet per 10kg from 3 weeks in whelp to one week post whelping.

Personally, I would not give any unnecessary drugs in pregnancy.

Used them only ever once, girl who had had 2 previous litters where she would always stop pushing for the last pup.  Regret giving her them as she ended up having to have a c-section for her last litter.

I've always given them to my bitches and they've had uneventful pregnancies and easy whelpings.

We always used to give them to the Boxers, never had a problem.

> Personally, I would not give any unnecessary drugs in pregnancy.

They are herbal & not a drug.

They sometimes work & they sometimes dont...every dog can be different with herbal remedies. So some swear by them whilst others have tried & failed with them. They are also used for phantoms with  similar effects ie work or dont work....

One of my clients used them to stop her staffy bitch having a phantom after her season last month. She has had several phantoms and it has put the vet off spaying her. The tablets seem to be working so far as she has not had another phantom. Her 'Mum' is a naturapath and is very health conscious for both her and her dog, so i can pretty safely say that these are far from being 'drugs"!

If I remember rightly, the entry in Martindale's Pharmacopoeia for raspberry leaf, used to read "May act as a uterine tonic in some animals." I don't know if later editions have changed that.

Drugs do not need to be pharmaceutical and herbal ones can be just as toxic as any other, take digitalis for instance.
Not suggesting that this one is particularly dangerous but neither have any studies been done on whether it crosses the placenta or what effect may have on a foetus not forgetting the fact if it has an effect on the uterus, which I think it probably has, that effect may not always be desirous.
As I say, personally, I would not consider unnessary drugs during pregnancy.

> so i can pretty safely say that these are far from being 'drugs"!

Definition of drug
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/drug
If it is has an effect on the body, it is a drug.

Sorry Stooge I was referring more to the use for phantoms, as I have no experience with pregnancies and would most likely follow the same course as you if I were ever in that situation, ie natural

I used raspberry leaf for my first litter of Toy Poodles back in the 70's.  The bitch had an awful time, and I never used the stuff again.

I'm perfectly aware of the fact that she may well have had a bad time anyway.  I have just never bothered using it again.

>She has had several phantoms and it has put the vet off spaying her.

Having phantoms makes her even more susceptible to pyometra.  With a bitch that bad (where she is never at the right point to spay), I would ask my vet to use Galastop just so that we could get to the point that the op was possible. 

"A tonic effect" as per Martindale's could mean more than one thing. Raspberry leaf does contain a very high level of iron, more than spinach, which would be beneficial for the dam in the later stages of pregnancy.

It would be very hard to prove that a hard whelping (or kittening) - or even an easy one - was due to the raspberry leaf; but at a nutritional level, it will boost iron levels at a time when the dam could certainly benefit from supplements.

I know a few women who have taken raspberry leaf tea themselves during pregnancy and they swear that it helped, but who knows really what they would have been like without it !

Regarding phantom pregnancy, I have used Evening Primrose with excellent effect with two of my bitches, one of which has the phantom and hormonal acne on her back as well.   No phantoms last year and the previous year was particularly bad.  Still too early to say definitively, but friends also have reported a big difference.

Contact Dorwest herbs for details.

Regarding Raspberry leaf, I used it with Burmese with no problems, but didn't bother with the dogs and also have had no problems so far.  As has been said little scientific evidence to show whether it works or not and as each pregnancy is different, difficult to say whether it helps or not

Sorry to go on about phantoms, but thanks for all your comments about them. JeanSW, they tried Galastop but she still had phantoms. And she is now gearing up to get her spayed, only a couple of months to go! I didn't know about them making her more susceptible to pyometra, I will pass this on.

I used them for my toy bitch and she had a pretty textbook whelp. It was her first litter to. I used the leaves instead of tablets. Just mixed in with her food. I'll def be using them with my next litter :)

I use it everytime.  The one time I didn't bother, the bitch had an awful, messy and long whelp.  This bitch had previously had a litter which was an OK birth so I blamed myself for not bothering with the tablets.  Since then I always use them.  They do no harm whatsoever so you have nothing to loose.
I also used them myself when having my 'litters' lol.  I swear by them even more since!!  I was told by my midwife that they are fine to use during pregnancy as they don't affect the baby.

> JeanSW, they tried Galastop but she still had phantoms.

I didn't mean use Galastop to stop phantoms, because there isn't anything that will.  Except removing the cause.  I meant use Galastop to dry up milk in preparation for spaying.

Jean, by removing the cause are you talking about spaying??

The testaments to raspberry leaf are anecdotal as one can never know how that whelping would have gone without their use.

Ive never used them.

> I was told by my midwife that they are fine to use during pregnancy as they don't affect the baby.

I wonder what evidence she based that on :) 

The other issue I have with this is my perennial concern that breeders seem to prefer to find a way to tinker with natural reproduction rather than take the safest route of always keeping to lines that do the job with the greatest of ease without any interference.

>Jean, by removing the cause are you talking about spaying??

Yes; the only permanent cure for phantom pregnancies is spaying.

>Jean, by removing the cause are you talking about spaying??

Most definitely - by removing the hormones that cause phantoms.  Which is by spaying.  Once the uterus and ovaries are removed, the problem of phantoms is away with the fairies.

>The other issue I have with this is my perennial concern that breeders seem to prefer to find a way to tinker with natural reproduction rather than take the safest route of always keeping to lines that do the job with the greatest of ease without any interference.

A bit of a sweeping statement.  And one that has me irked.  I have dedicated so many years to producing a self whelping line, and this in a breed that only has 1-3 pups, so takes a long time to get anywhere, and I have quietly worked away with dedication.  Religiously spaying bitches that have any difficulty in whelping.  And ensuring that their offspring doesn't go into a breeding programme.

Those who know me will confirm my thoughts on natural reproduction.  So, I am NOT a breeder who "tinkers."  It is not fair to lump all breeders in the same boat.

Sorry, can't understand your post at all Jean.  Aren't you saying the same as me then?

I think if you had put 'some' in front of breeders it may have not been interpreted as all.

I agree that it is not clinically proven that it has any effect so not really a thing I would do even to myself if I was pregnant as would rather be guided by health professionals :-)

I've used Raspberry leaf and was pleased with the results.  From what I understand it helps the uterus expand withut some of they pain they experience, it softens it i think.  I also used Evening Primrose Oil to help.

> I think if you had put 'some' in front of breeders it may have not been interpreted as all.
>

Maybe, but that should not have been necessary.  Of course not all breeders interfer.  She had already said she does not use it so I have no idea why she thinks I was accusing her of being an "interferer".

> I agree that it is not clinically proven that it has any effect

I'd be more concerned that it may have effect!