Just wondering how many of you have kept seemingly the best puppy only to find out it wasnt ?

Likely to be most of us.

depends what you mean by 'best pup'. When I kept my pup I went for personality, as, at the end of the day this is what you live with. The pup I felt might be the better of the two for showing didnt have the same bonding with me. so i took the pup that I would like to live with for the next however many years. As it turned out the bitch that I kept is also a good looking dog as well, so it was for me a win win.

The pup that I kept had much more of a show personality. from a young age she looked at me as if to say...don't look at the others..!!!
This has proved to be the case as she has done very well in the showring, due in no small part to her attitude. One of her sisters is probably a better bitch but has such a laid back attitude that she does not really project herself.

My experience was exactly the same as tadog. I followed heart over head and probably did pass the pick bitch to a pet home, keeping the sweetie who the whole family had bonded with.

Over a year later, I still feel the same, having seen the other bitch mature into a beautiful specimen. However, our girl is the light of our lives & makes us laugh every day, plus she was a much better "fit" being that her mother is more dominant and she'll never challenge that. She's also developing into a beautiful girl, although for show quality, the other one would have been the pick.

If I am ever in that position again, I would definitely "run on" two, as I don't breed often & it would have given me longer to make a final decision. I bowed to pressure from the puppy buyer & hubby who didn't understand that it was my decision and I would take as long as I liked to choose, even if the new owner would have to wait a few weeks' longer. I'll stick to my guns next time... Lesson learned!

Gosh yes! I often tell the story of two bitches from my second litter. There were only two. I picked the one that I felt was best, the other went to an agility home. Mine turned out to have a fault that puts off all judges (you couldn't tell as pups as it is ear carriage) but she is really bouncy and energetic and would probably be good for agility (which I have no interest in), the other one turned out to be slow and have no interest in agility but is now shown and is winning more than any other dog I've ever bred!

Same here, I kept the pied bitch from our last litter 2 years ago (along with a brindle boy), she's gorgeous, from the moment I was wiping the green goo off her at birth I just felt something I'd never felt before and I love all of my dogs to bits. From the day she opened her eyes something seemed to click with her too and I knew I could never let her go but I also knew she wasn't the pick of the girls. She's done well in the ring so I can't complain.

This will probably happen a lot to me my breed is very unpredictable and puppies at 8 weeks which look very promising sometimes end up the wrong size or something goes wrong in the 2-7 months period! :-( As some of you said, I think I would like to think I would choose a puppy of good breed type but also and very importantly of a temperament suited to my household. As was said before, you have to live with the puppy and enjoy them at home as much (or even more) than in the ring!

Very much so, in my case she was a singleton and born 3 weeks after I lost my Henry, and I told myself that the judges would surely forgive all the stuff that I could tell even then wasn't going to go away. However she is a lovely personality and does wonderfully at rally obedience, and I have since bought another puppy who I hope will become my show girl instead, and I wouldn't be without either of them. :-)

Not yet! :-)

>Not yet!

Now tooolz - that was really eerie! 

I hadn't scrolled down, didn't even know that you had joined the thread.  But read a post mentioning that somebody would - next time - take their time in choosing, however long it took.

And, I said out loud - tooolz would say, her dogs, her choice, and if people didn't want to wait for her to make up her mind then tough!! 

Because she breeds for herself.  I can't help smiling at the deja vu.  :-)

> And, I said out loud - tooolz would say, her dogs, her choice, and if people didn't want to wait for her to make up her mind then tough!! 
>

The problem is that most people these days have to make up their minds about which puppy to keep long before things are that certain, if they have any hope of homing them.

I would find it impossible to keep a puppy to past 6 months of age and then decide I wasn't going to keep it, even four months would be too long for me.

There is the other side that many people feel if they don't get a puppy young they will for ever be at a disadvantage behaviourally, and wouldn't touch a puppy over x weeks with a barge pole.

In the end we do breed for ourselves but the litter-mates need homes of their own.

Also the question can be asked several ways.  Are we talking about the likely to be most successful puppy in a chosen field of competition (then I am sure all of us who have not run on puppies have chosen the wrong one at some point).  Sometimes we deliberately keep a puppy that will fit into what we are trying to do with our breeding program, even if it will not be the pick of the litter.

If you have chosen a dog for your bitch to improve/strengthen a certain feature, then you would be silly to keep the puppy that did not have this improvement.  Or as someone else has said whose character would make a better fit in the home pack.

>If you have chosen a dog for your bitch to improve/strengthen a certain feature, then you would be silly to keep the puppy that did not have this improvement.

I hear where you're coming from Barbara.  I kept a dog pup because he had exactly the head I was aiming for.  And I still love it now!  But, as you say, once you have had them 6 months, it's too late to let them go.  My boy, who should have been in the 4 - 6lbs weight range, still has the type that I wanted, but could be used to pull a carriage! 

Ginormous or not, he is still here, and I love his temperament, and he will never show.  And I could never let him go.  Funnily enough he has only sired one litter - to an oversized bitch.  And produced a bitch suitable for the show ring!

Murphy's Law!

But I do accept that keeping an extra dog in the toy breeds is far easier than having large breeds.  At least I can get 9 Chi's in my largest Beardies bed!!  :-)

The problem is that most people these days have to make up their minds about which puppy to keep long before things are that certain, if they have any hope of homing them.

Exactly -it so much depends on breed. In Malinois it is virtually impossible to sell a pup aged 10 weeks or above. As they need so much socialisation and tend to bond to one person, everyone wants them at 7-8 weeks and whereas you can get the odd person to take a pup at 10 weeks and sometimes even a bit later when you can prove you HAVE started socialising the pup away from home, I know that if my pups reach ten weeks of age chances are they will never sell. In Papillons, that would never happen.

The breeder of my foundation bitch, who was the first UK breeder, used to say that she never picked a pup, she only ever kept the one (or ones) left to last in her litters. I can understand why. I have only ever had two litters where I didn't end up keeping more than one pup -that's the nature of the breed, extremely hard to find the right homes for. Yet we can't all give up breeding because the number of show breeders is so extremely small, the breed in any other guise than pure working dog (very different looks etc) would end up dying out. If I was to tell a Malinois buyer that they couldn't pick their pup until over 8 weeks old, I would almost be guaranteed to lose that buyer. But I can tell that to Papillon buyers -and indeed have done.

Yes, I could never let Hetty go now, even though, rally or not, it would be the 'best' thing. She would settle fine with someone else, and people often want young adults (she's 18 months old). And I have Ellie for rally and hopefully little Lottie for showing. But there's no way I could ever let my Hetty go now, it's much too late! :-)

> that was really eerie!

Yeah it was!
I was thinking about it for a while before I answered :-)
Ive always ended up with the right one (even with the bigger breed) for whatever reason but I like to think its because I can pick a puppy.
It helps that both breeds have markings and you can discount some straight away and with the toy litters that can be restricting.

I seldom 'run on' in the truest sense as I let them go at 12-14 weeks anyway and I know by then.
Last year, in a particularly good and even litter, all perfectly marked... I had 3 bitches. It was amazing how so many people wanted to see them in the hope Id let the wrong one go...I didnt :-)

I dont Really know if Ive got the best one until all health results are in however.

HAve  kept the one who seemed most promising as a baby only to discover that it matures in a very different way form expected, and an "ugly duckling" form the litter turns into the swan, but never quite as spectacularly as with a litter 2 years ago - kept a dog and a bitch pup  - the bitch as I wanted to keep a bitch from this mating anyway, the dog as he looked to have loads of potential - much more than the other 2 boys.  My nephew disagreed and wanted to keep the biggest boy, but was outvoted.  Bumble, who I kept, was a gorgeous pup, loads of show attitutude, qualified first time out at 6 months, won a couple of open show puppy groups - but reached full size at 10 months,, and never grew on.  At 2 he still looks like a pup!  However, his bigger brother has grown inot just the kind of boy I hoped Bumble would be, but is happily living as a family pet - everytime I see him I get "I told you so" from nephew!  The upsdie is that Bumble is very, very active and quick, and looks live he will make an amazing agility pug!

> In Malinois it is virtually impossible to sell a pup aged 10 weeks or above

I guess we were the exception there, we got Heidi at 12 weeks and we shocked to be honest that there was one left. It has always been evident though that she missed out on that early socialisation (she had some but no to the level she should have had really compared to if we had got her at 8 weeks)

I love this thread - as you all say it depends on what you are keeping the pup for.

We have a working giant breed,We have been in the breed 10 years and in March bred the love of my life - my Minnie for her first - and our first litter - we indulged in the situation to its full extent - taking 10 weeks off work each,and loving every second of it! we took paw prints from the pups weekly and personalised everything.We were lucky that all the homes were decided virtually before the mating - with the usual few hiccups and mis understandings - but luckily in the end every single pup went to working homes to people we know.

Now,this is where it was hard.

We have always worked never shown,so have in the past had our favourite colours - even if not accepted in this country so had decided on some criteria before the birth - we would have a female,and a black female so we could try showing ...despite a 'mis mark' being the thing we had always wanted . . . .guess what was born amongst the 8??? a mis mark ! ...2 mis marks!

Something about one of the black puppy girls drew me in at just 4 days old,and through the joys of Facebook all owners had kind of put 'notes of interest' on various pups,head ruled heart and we said no to the mis mark and went with my gut.

Our breed usually leave home at 8 weeks,but both the mis mark pups were staying with us till 12 weeka as the little girls owners were away and the little boy was flying to live with our very good friends who own their own lake  (and 2 other Newfs) in Michigan (one VERY spoilt Newfy!) ...which meant I got to spend some extra time with my 'second choice pup' .

Whether it was because I knew she wasnt staying and I was second guessing myself I dont know,but I was very very attached to her - and to make matters worse she became Minnies 'Teachers pet' puppy - Minnie would single her out and favor her all the time.She was like a carbon copy of Minnie,same personality everything.

We did not keep her,it broke my heart when she left - despite the fact that I would see her at least once a month at working event - it took me a while not to resent her being some one elses!

Look wise,other than the markings she is perfect size and shape and coat,and my little girl is yet to gro coat! however my little girl is the happiest dog in the world,never without a toy to greet me.

We have the little mis mark back to saty now for a few weeks whilst in season,her Mum Minnie still favors her,and structure wise she is lovely,and even though every thing suggests she would have been the better one to keep I can't help thinking my gutt must have been right and that i have kept an ugly duckling that will prove me right soon ! I wonder if this is just a Mothers pride ?

I only bred the once but have never regretted for one second the pup I kept, i chose him on personality and temperament and he's not known as " nice boy Spuddy" for nothing, he may be clumsy, a bit thick and a complete wimpy mummy's boy but he's been my pride and joy and loved by everyone who's met him.
I quite happily passed on the pick of the litter, a fantastic looking little bitch with stunning markings to a lovely family who showed her lightly but always did well when she was shown. I could have let her go to the club secretary as he was very keen on her, but i was more interested in placing her with a loving family than the show career, of course a show dog is also a loved pet, but I became uneasy with his attitude the more I met him.

A few people advised me to keep the other bitch from my litter as she did have lovely type and great movement, but she was so dark that I would have been so upset if she'd turned out too dark to show once stripped out, so kept her lighter sister who had finer features but in essence I feel was the right pup to choose; she too had good movement and a nice type, but could due with more chunk to her chest. I must admit to making sure my buyer who wanted the other girl (she'd visited weekly since before my bitch was even confirmed pregnant) knew that we bred for show and we would need to wait until 6 weeks before letting her know who went where. She was totally fine with this, and the pup that always fell asleep on her and she really bonded with was the one she ended up with, so good news all round really!