Hi we have meet a couple today who are intrested in a litter im going to breed in the future, he asked us about docking i said we are not docking the litter due to the Docking laws. he said he wants to work the dog and would prefer it to be docked. Now my question is can you dock just one puppy or do you have to have the whole litter done. He knows he will have to choose it at day old and is very happy to pay the full price when he chooses the pup. thanks for your advice on docking im not up todate on the law about what is right advice to give them.

The information you need will be here.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/45/section/6

Dawn R.

Have heard where people have docked because the pup was wanted for work and the purchaser changed their mind, I take it they are working stock.

yes they are working stock

If they are all going to working homes will you not want to be docking them all? Must be difficult to know what to do as the deed is best done soon after whelping so it is something you have to decide before the birth.

3 homes already linned up for the puppies, they are just going to pet homes, so dont need there tails off. can i just get the one docked??

I don't know sorry but I am fairly sure that you need proof that the dog is to be worked. Must be a problem because you don't want to break the law but on the other hand you don't want to risk a working dog damaging itself. Does the link you have been given not help, if not then perhaps a phone call would.

Does seem from the link that single dogs can be done but that would be difficult because the prospective owner would need to chose it at a day old.

Yes, you can just request that the vet docks the tail of one of the pups in the litter (provided you demonstrate you can meet the requirements of legislation concerning tail docking) and of course your working home buyer understands he won't have a choice of pups from the litter as you will have selected a puppy for docking shortly after the litter's birth.

Edited after Nova's post.

The onus is on the breeder to demonstrate a working connection to their own dogs (by providing proof to the docking vet as laid down in the legislation) and the likelihood that one or more of the litter will be following in the "footsteps" of the parents.  The onus is not on the potential buyer to prove he will work the dog (after all not every dog intended for working makes the grade and this can't be known in a newly delivered whelp).

Surely if he wants the dog to work, then your buyer would want the one with the best temperament for working, not just the one with the docked tail, wouldn't he?  Surely he'd be better to buy one from a working litter where both parents were successful workers to stand a chance of a good worker puppy?
Do you know him well enough to be sure that he won't change his mind and leave you with a docked puppy?  I'm not sure that I'd consider doing it. :(

I remember some years ago a friend wanted an undocked puppy in a docked breed.  The breeder agreed to leave a puppy with a tail on condition that she paid in full before the litter was 3 days old.  The breeder left the puppy that she thought wouldn't make the show ring, which suited the potential owner, but when she went to collect him, he wasn't the temperament that she would have chosen..........

Yes, you can get just one docked, and the CDB website lists what documentary evidence you'd need to show the vet.

Absolutely yes, you can dock as many or as few puppies in a litter as you wish. I find Docked puppies from working stock sell better. There is no need to have a very short tail ask your vet for half a tail, this is fine for working and there is still a load of tail to wag and cover up private parts if needed. It is a perfectly legal process within the working breeds although you will have to provide the vet with a letter from a landowner or game keeper who know you or a shotgun license certificate. Puppies are required to be docked during the first 3 days after birth. Search the DEFRA site for information or the CDB may still have information you can obtain.

Here we can have a problem, as the rules require the owenr of teh bitch to provide evidence that they work theri dogs, if the breeder does not work their dogs but a buyer wishes to work one from the litter, what then?

Some breeds are still very much dual purpose, and for some reason there are people who do not work their dogs but have working type dogs???

a friend had someone want one of her dogs for work so she docked as requested and then the buyer pulled out, she was lucky enough to find someone else that wanted a working spaniel, so she now insists that they want the puppy docked they must pay full price for the puppy before she gets it docked , she says she knows that it is a risk as you can't really tell if you have a working dog at that age but the people she has asked to do this are happy about it .

Brainless :: I know of breeders who personally no longer work their dogs due to health reasons or have never worked dogs themselves BUT have dogs that are equally as suited to working homes as show homes. The legal requirements offer other options for legal docking than the owner of the bitch holding a shotgun certificate. Another ligitimate evidence is * quote *
a letter from a gamekeeper, land occupier ( or his agent),  person with shooting rights, a shoot organiser, a club official, a person representing the National Working Terrier Foundation, or a person engaged in lawful pest control, stating that the breeder of the dog, who's tail is to be docked, is known to him and that the dogs bred by the breeder have been used on his land or in his shoot, or for pest control.

Alternatively ( if the breeder cannot obtain required evidence above ) = IF the puppy was purchased at birth, the new owner of the dog could provide their shot gun certificates, or official identification that the owner will be working the dog for armed forces, emergancy resuce, police, prison service or HMRC. The breeder can present the dog to the vet as the person authorised to repressent the owner.   

K

Yes I was aware of that, but if the breeder has no working links other than the dogs then they are stuffed.

if the breeder does not work their dogs but a buyer wishes to work one from the litter, what then?

Brainless this is us the breeder we dont work our dogs , but the buyer does want to work the puppy he wants to buy. can the puppy still be docked?

If I might refer you back to the link I provided earlier, the parts you need to pay particular attention to are sub sections 3, 4 and 5.

Your puppy buyer would have to show documentary evidence to satisfy the vet doing the docking that the dog was going to be worked, under one of the specific conditions stated in the legislation. In addition, Jeangenie has given another link which lists the types of document acceptable as evidence.

Dawn R.

As I read it those conditions have to apply to the breeder of the pup though????

The CDB site says "a current shotgun or firearm certificate issued to the owner of the dog, or to the agent or employee of the owner most likely to be using the dog for work in connection with the lawful shooting of animals OR ....

If the person who wants the puppy for working has paid for it in full, even at 1 day old, then surely that person is the owner who has to provide the documentary evidence, not the breeder.

I agree JG, if the puppy is bought and paid for, then it belongs to the buyer.

Dawn R.

I guess then it falls to the vet who will be docking to say if they will accept that or not. I would still think its a risky thing to do as the buyer has no idea whether that pup will have the right temperament for the job they wish it to do, especially if the parents have not proved themselves in that field, so may be very disappointed. I would have thought you chose a working dog once its temperament starts to show.

where is the OP? There's an outright ban in Scotland.

Gofaster :: YES the puppy CAN be docked if you are in England Or Wales. The purchaser would have to buy the pup at one day / two days old ( before docking ) the pup is then THEIR dog and they INTEND to use it for work. You can present THEIR documentation to the vet ( shot gun certs, evidence shooting rights, forces ID etc ) as the authorised representative of the owner.  

K