My vet mentioned this and was wondering if this is something people do for large breed dogs?

Moose being a cross (Great Dane / pit) would this be something I should consider?

Not spaying till after 1st heat cycle. I no nothing of her parents.

I am planning on raising food dishes as she gets bigger.

Thank you

It's major surgery so not something to be done unless absolutely necessary to save the dog's life; it's not something I'd consider as a preventative.

A lot of deep-chested owners now take this precaution when getting the bitches spayed.  I don't think I would unless I was 'in there' allready.  Meaning, I wouldn't operate just for that but I would add it on if I was getting my bitch spayed.

It's not something I would ever consider unless the dog was actually on the table having a torsion repaired, so not unless the vet was in there anyway.

There are lots of things you can do that significantly reduce the chances of bloat .. raised feeding stands as you mentioned, never feeding less than twice a day, feed soaked food, don't exercise for 2 hours after feeding and don't feed for an hour after exercise.

Definitely not something i'd consider and we own large and giant breeds.  I personally don't have raised bowls either...have a read up on the pros and cons before doing this. 

I certainly wouldn't do it as a preventative. It is major surgery and carries risks, not just with the anaesthetic, but with the recovery afterwards.

One way of trying to avoid Bloat is to schedule feeding and exercise carefully. So I never exercise my large breed dogs until 2 hours after feeding, and I also leave one hour after exercise before feeding.

> I personally don't have raised bowls either...

Same here, though it can be a way of keeping your growing pup up on its pasterns. So I often start them off with a raised bowl, but put them on the floor later on. 

I remember reading one survey that suggested raised stands increased the chances of bloat, they based that on the fact that a lot of dogs that bloated used raised stands. However most people (certainly before that study) with breeds prone to bloat used raised feeders, it doesn't mean that it was at all contributory to the bloat. I think it's a bit like saying wearing socks causes road accidents - personally I don't think it does it just so happens that most people involved in accidents are wearing them :-)

I should also have said in my first reply that of course tacking the stomach won't prevent bloat, it may prevent torsion though where the stomach twists.

>I remember reading one survey that suggested raised stands increased the chances of bloat, they based that on the fact that a lot of dogs that bloated used raised stands. However most people (certainly before that study) with breeds prone to bloat used raised feeders, it doesn't mean that it was at all contributory to the bloat. I think it's a bit like saying wearing socks causes road accidents - personally I don't think it does it just so happens that most people involved in accidents are wearing them :-)

That's true, statistics can be used to prove all manner of things, some contradictory. Trouble is, no-one really knows yet just what does cause the dreaded bloat. I think sticking to a sensible exercise & feeding regime together with keeping an eye on them, is all most of us can do. That and trying to keep ourselves informed.

I have a friend whose parents' swedish vallhund died of bloat so it can happen to much smaller dogs anyway. Rabbits get it too!

You're right of course Marianne, it's just that large deep chested breeds have a higher chance of it. It's good general dog management to not exercise straight after food and to wait until the dog is breathing normally after exercise before feeding, regardless of the breed or size of the dog :-)

> I think sticking to a sensible exercise & feeding regime together with keeping an eye on them, is all most of us can do.

I agree :-)

A friend who works for an out of hours emergency vet service has seen bloat/GDV in a Dachshund and a Schnauzer.

Our Boxer had bloat a few days after major leg surgery. She was crated with no walking at all and I believe this could have been the cause of the bloat. She had her stomach tacked at the same time as having her spleen removed due to the bloat. Luckily 2 years later she is fine now.

Are we in danger of having double standards if we condone such an operation. I remember not so long ago an outcry about the tacking of Shar Pei eye lids for a few months whilst it grows and now an abdominal operation is suggest and said to be becoming a standard practice.

Don't see that tacking would stop bloat although it would stop torsion but I would be very much against it becoming normal practice, but then I am against the routine practice of neutering.

Nova the person involved is abroad and I would think if the vet mentioned it it must be a fairly common practice over there.  Hopefully it's not in the UK?

It was suggested to my sister for her gsd although thankfully never done. Sisiter and dog are both in the uk and the vet has very good reputation at least locally ( different vet to me I may add)
Notice comment about boxer having bloat after major leg surgery sorry didnt notice the poster. My flat coat died from bloat shortly after major sugery on her jaw ( five days) the best guess was a combination of stress and a reation to rimadyl Interesting that it was major surgery again I would now be very careful about bloat in the future in any dog having surgery due to my experience. She was not crated for the 24 hours before the torsion norcould she eat much.  The only other significant thing was drinking substantial amounts about 12 hours before the bloat. Never again would I allow that 

Hmmmm not sure if it was something we should consider when we spay her. Now hmmm I don't no

We free feed and she seems fine on this- she doesn't eat to much at all, have been watching her.

As for the food dishes should I just leave them on the floor as she grows? Was thinking this way she needs to
eat slower or raise her head to swallow, where if its raised maybe she will just eat faster- I don't no.

A lot to think about any how.

Thank you

There's no conclusive evidence in any direction about what triggers bloat - dogs have had it who were fed from raised bowls, fed from the floor, hand fed, drank lots of water, drank very little, exercised immediately after food, hours after or before food, so on and so forth.

There's no best way - all we can do is try and use some common sense so generally no exercise soon after meals (I wait 2-3 hours, bloat aside I've run soon after a meal and it was extremely uncomfortable), raised bowls for tall dogs etc (that's my version anyhoo!).

Linc is fed from a raised bowl - the rescue insist on it because of bloat, I do it because of that and because he is a tall dog, I figure eating a whole meal from the floor is probably quite uncomfortable.  I don't find he eats any faster - he's quite a casual eater.  My lab on the other hand, eats from the floor and almost inhales her food!

Could there be a heritable factor to bloat ?.
I must say I'm always on the alert for it, a friends Bloodhound died from it and since then it's been something I'm very aware off.

> Could there be a heritable factor to bloat ?.
>

Well there must as it is more prevelent in some breeds than others but I doubt it is genetic as such but rather some aspect of the breeds conformation.
Therefore, as Nova alluded to, it would be wrong to deal with this in a surgical way but better to tackle it by using breeding lines that have a lesser tendancy and thus modify the conformation. 

This sure gives hubby and I a lot to think about with her- we took her in so def no idea of her back ground at all. Just hope that with her being a cross that
Bloat won't be something we will have to worry about- "fingers crossed".

She has really taken a liking to T-Bone which is nice, and T-Bone seems to play a lot more then she did before so I really like seeing that.

:-)

We free feed and she seems fine on this- she doesn't eat to much at all, have been watching her.

I would really avoid this if I was you because you don't know if she will change. We bought a dog that had been free fed (import so was 11 months old when he arrived) and the breeders had said the dogs eat just enough etc, and indeed the first couple of times we saw him he was fine. When we collected him he was seriously overweight. It was then a nightmare to get him used to feeding times as he was so used to being able to eat when he wanted that he would instead eat anything in sight -whether edible or not. And if you are worried about the risk of bloat, you can't ever be sure WHEN she last ate so not know when exercise is safe, so I would stick to certain times for feeding to play safe. Makes training easier as well -always easier to train a hungry dog that will be keen to earn as many treats as rewards as possible. :)

Indeedy and although maybe not that likely - if she ever needs meds that revolve around feeding times, free feeding would be a nightmare.  My boy is like this - he has 3 doses of thyroid meds a day, each one has to be 1 hour before or 3 hours after a meal so I could never free feed (not that I could anyway, dozy dog would eat himself to death and has tried twice!).  Likewise my lab's painkillers have to go with a meal, and giving supplements is easier with a meal to put them in (especially the turmeric I've just put 3 of them on).

It also helps to have set mealtimes as you will know how much she is eating and can pick up a change in appetite faster - when my youngest is slipping into a bout of enteritis the first sign is that she starts picking at her meals, and I can nip it in the bud from that.

I have always free fed my dogs and not one has ever been over weight.
Cuervos-Shepherd/collie
Taz- Wolf/rott
and all 4 of my bostons. My dogs are all the ideal weight. I believe if free fed from the start dogs do self regulate themselves. I think when food is picked up they no it will be removed
so they eat all that is there. So if you feed a lil more then normal it will be eaten up.

If its certain feeding like when Junior had his teeth pulled he got Honest Kitchen and I also softened his food and that I fed twice a day till he could eat hard again.

I no what my boston's eat and have now noticed how much she eats, of course this will increase cause she is still only a pup.
I only have 2 bowl down and so far so good. I guess you do what works for you and your crew :-)

I am proud to say at just coming 3 months on the 2nd she already goes outside with the other dogs and just went to the door and went out on her own- so proud of her.
1st time I didn't have to take her out when the other dogs didn't want to join her- She's a smart one :-)

> I have always free fed my dogs and not one has ever been over weight.

I personally wouldnt worry about that part of free-feeding, but as others have said - how do you know when she's eaten to ensure a large enough break between food & excersice? I would never walk Buster after a meal and he is has the typical 'mastiff tempo' and does everything slowly - his walks are more of a plod (unless he meets his rottie friend, then everything is super-fast!). With a dog that would be more inclined to actually exert itself on a walk I would have a nervous breakdown worrying about if they have eaten or not, I'd be worried to death about me causing bloat.

Here is some info about Bloat/GDV, just one of many that lists:
"Exercise before and especially after eating" as one of the possible causes
"Do not exercise for at least an hour (longer if possible) before and especially after eating" as a preventative measure.

ETA, feeding in a giant breed is not like feeding any other dog they have sooooo much more growing to do which requires enough nutrition to sustain the massive growth, but not too much so growth is encouraged. Too much food (excesive calories/protien/calcium) can all lead to developmental problems and over-nutirtion seems to be a contribuitng factor/trigger of HOD.  Free-feeding is not a good way to monitor the correct in take of the diet.

Thanks for the link :-)

I guess as for worrying about eating she is kenneled while we are at work- so get out to eat in the morning, afternoon, then when I get home after work go for a walk then allowed to eat.
Guess in away she is scheduled fed in that way. My boston's only seem to eat in the morning then again around 430 or so.

Will def keep and eye on that :-)

Edit: To say her walk is only half way around the block- not very big blocks-

My boy's breeders said recently that in the vet literature nowadays, many vets reckon that the modern upsurge in bloat has developed in parallel with the modern upsurge in feeding complete dry food (even when fed soaked). They have therefore switched from complete dry food to a more natural (raw meat, mixer, veg) approach.

> many vets reckon that the modern upsurge in bloat has developed in parallel with the modern upsurge in feeding complete dry food

In my experience bloat is far less common now than it was 20 years ago? I put that down to better management as the word spreads. Certainly I know several people that lost dogs to bloat 20 to 30 years ago but don't know a single person who has lost one in the last 5 years, and I know a lot of people who have breeds prone to it.

Can only say that they've had 3 quite large litters of Italian Spinones in past 15 years and have kept about 6 adults for themselves of which 2 had bloat - one died and one saved thanks to rushing to vet within 30 mins.

Haven't read the vet lit myself, just going on what was reported.

its done as the norm in my breed in the USA :( but here we only do it if a hound has a torsion. I have had it done under these circumstances. there is an increased risk of peritinitis after having it done but certainly after a torsion I would always want it done.

I have a boy who had a bad torsion back in July 2009 - he lost his spleen and whilst the vet was 'in there' he did the gastropexy - he was very adamant that this will NOT stop bloat - just buy some time and possibly prevent a torsion - although when the gas builds up too much,a few stitches wont stop in twisting.

My boys GDV was stress enduced

We have been 2 and a half years fine - but in the past month he has been bloating daily - filling with gas,and we have to massage it out of him,or tube him.This is common app in many post bloat dogs a few years after surgery.So the gastropexy buys us time to relieve this gas with no twist,and we are (so far - touch wood ) dealing with this issure as part of life.It does mean we can not leave him for over 45 mins any more.He has windeze,slippery elm and ggripe water which help,but not much

I dont think it is less common - in our breed there are lots of incidences - all fed differently,almost all occasions involve 3 dogs in the family and a recent stress or change to the pack - i.e season / new dog / vet visit