Hi there could i have some more advice please :) My 7month lurcher pup used to have a fussy eating problem. Which dissapeared as quickly as it come. She was on tins, usually pedigree or butchers, but after some research into those types of food in regards to water to meat contents I switched her onto wainwrights, wet food and kibble, and worked out alot healthyer for her and also even though it is more expensive than tins actually worked out cheaper over a week or so. She has been on this for a few months now and is very happy and healthy, and now looks forward to meal times. She is fed twice a day. But the past 4 weeks or so she has been very very hungry, even after eating, usually on an evening. She is actually on more food than she should be for age weight and breed etc as i thought she must need to be as food did not seem to tooch the sides (she was never like tis before)and even tho fed more than it says she should be she is not over weight or anything, she looks perfect weight and health. But she still begs for food constantly, walks around on an evening whinning, back and forth from her food bowle, sniffing floor in living room hoovering up any crumbs and sniffing my table at any drinks or empty wrappers that may be on there, she noes that she has got food from that coffee table before as in the past me being thick has left food on ther for a second and turned my back and she has had it, i dont do that any more tho, have learnt my lesson and get rid or any wrappers so as to not 'wind her up' or tease her. Also if i have just ate something, or even just drank tea or milk or something, and go to give her a fuss she starts frantically sniffing my mouth, i have to walk away. And EVERY TIME i walk into the kitchen for ANYTHING or even walk towards that way but not actually go in, she leaps up and comes running as if hopefull, and it is actually annoying, as cats do it to (i have 2 very very greedy male cats, all my bleeding animals are food food food, and my cats will eat a tin each or even more a day which is so much more than my sisters cat which barely eats half a tin haha). How do i stop all this behavour from her and stop her getting stressed when food is not offered to her. I have never allowed her to eat on her terms, she has never been alowed food on offer all time eg biscuits constantly down or bones out, and at feeding times she has to 'ask' for her food, so it is all on my terms. And i never feed her 'tit bits' when im in kitchen doing sometihing so dont no why she is hopefull whenever im in there and why she thinks she is going to have something. When she was on tins she was never like this, i guess all the water contents filled her up and bloated her, where as that would not happen with this food. What shalli do?? Shall i feed more meals a day (split food up) would that fill her up more, shall i put up with it, or does she needs her food increasing quantity even more ???

Also wormed up to date so  have ruled out worms, and no worms in poo etc

If this continues it may be worth having a blood test as a few months ago one of our dogs became frantic for food. She got into dustbins and even managed to climb onto a work surface ( still don't know how she managed this ) desperately looking for food. While on the work surface she got into a cupboard and ended up eating a whole large pack of KitKat and box of chocolates.( bought in for Christmas)  She was rushed to the vets as that amount of chocolate worried us and it was found out that she had Thyroid problems, and this was causing her to be starving all the time. She was on a chocolate high for 2 days but with medication her eating is now back to normal. She is not normally a greedy dog, so this behaviour was so out of character.

Thank you, that is very helpfull, and something i would not have though off, what are the other symtoms do you no ?? Is not putting on much weight one of them? as she is not underweight and is gaining weight comfortly, but like i said on mor food than she should be and not over weight?? so maybe not putting weight on at the rate she should for the amount of food she eats. Also just this second she was just sick, completly out of the blue :o can not believe it. Brown smelly liquid with just a few tiny food bits in it. Not been fed today ???????? oh dear me :(

How often do you feed her and at what times?  I noticed that you said she hadn't been fed today in your last post.  Some dogs will be sick if they wait too long for food in the morning...

Once you've ruled out any medical issues - or whilst you wait - do look at your food timetable.  At 7 months she is still growing and will probably need more food than you would expect to feed an adult.  I have gundogs that would still be on puppy food at this age.  Also, some youngsters do better on 3 meals a day for a longer period than others - it just seems to suit them.

However, hungry phases and/or stealing isn't uncommon in young dogs.  It's a combination of a growth spurt, needing more energy, and some boundary testing that occurs with adolescence.  Putting some food into a Kong to keep them busy often helps.  I think I recall another post about your dog staring at you (?).  You had some good advice about discouraging her over dependance.  This will also help by giving her something to do whilst you are busy with other things.  You do not want to encourage her following you into every room :)

By the way it's unlikely to be the food change - kibble is actually quite filling but does need time to fill them up.  Make sure she has lots of water, or feed her kibble with additional water added
sometimes

i usually feed her late morning (should start to pull my finger out more and feed her earlyer) and then feed her about 6 on an evening. She is still on puppy food, maybe i should try feeding her 3 times day. Does it seem to fill them up more when fed little and often ?? Vet as always told me one meal a day, i have always gone agenst what he has said by feeding twice a day. I think you are right with pushing the boundaries, i knew this was what she was doing when she was refusing to eat (holding out for something better), she always seems to be testing things and pushing boundaries. But all other probs i have had with her have all improved, its like she is constantly testing me with one thing, then moves on to another thing. She is really smart like that and actually can sometimes get me worried that something is wrong with her, oly to find out it was a test lol when she was younger she had a water infection which cleared with medication, but i took her back to vets 3 times after that worried it had come back, but come to the conclusion she was re-inacting the behavour she showed with the infection to get both me and her outside all the bleeding time haha when i was walking her once, during time she had a recall problem, i kept her on lead as she was very naughty on her walk before, she was not happy haha she then all of a sudden started limping (she noes when she limps as she does sometimes after a run or a turn sharply that she gets attention and all feeling sorry for her) i kept checking feet and legs and could not see or feel anything, and nothing had happened to make her limp, and nothing was sore, i thought hang on a minute, and let her of lead, she started running around all happy and excited, not a prob in sight, i thought the little bugger was just trying to get me feel sorry for her hahaha

> Vet as always told me one meal a day,

OK for adults NOT for puppies/youngsters and I've always preferred 2 meals a day for life.  It's better for their digestion

> i thought the little bugger was just trying to get me feel sorry for her

Not really.  She wouldn't know how to do this BUT young dogs do need attention and she's trying to get you to respond to her

Do you take her to training classes?  She's at a great age to learn and it sounds as if you need to keep her brain busy.  Have a read of the The Puppy Primer by Patricia McConnell - it's an excellent book and her website is pretty good too.  Anything you can do to enhance your understanding of your dog will benefit both of you and this author is an excellent place to start :)

>She is still on puppy food, maybe i should try feeding her 3 times day.

I'm trying to get my 8 month old down from 3 meals (7.30 after our walk, 1pm after a walk, and 6.30pm when I get home) to two, but she's not interested in dropping one at all. I don't ever go down to just one meal a day, though, but stick to two throughout their lives. And they still have a biscuit at lunchtime and last thing.

what are the other symtoms do you no

She was very tired and just looked for food all the time, but did not put on any extra weight ( I did not want her to put on weight as she is just right ) However reading later posts, I did not realise that you are only feeding twice a day. My dogs are adults and have 2 meals a day, morning and evening, and also half a bonio at lunch time ( a routine they will not allow me to discontinue ! ) so I think the problem could be with making a young dog wait too long between meals, even I couldn't go that long without being sick.!

> I don't ever go down to just one meal a day

Me neither, for several reasons. Bloat/Torsion being the main one but also to avoid bile/too much acid in an empty tummy making the dog sick.

For the OP, don't worry about quantities, judge by how your dog looks, it's impossible for food manufacturers to give an accurate amount of food per weight of dog because dogs like people have different metabolisms and activity levels.

thank you all for your advice :) I wounder why the vet told me one meal per day :/ i will give her a morning meal and an evening meal aswell as something in between. and i did not no waiting to long for food causes them to be sick :/ she is deffinatly perfect weight and size and healthy looking so i think i am atleast getting the quantity of food correct :)

i fed mine wainwright for awhile and also my 2 friends did, we all had the same problem , dogs looking for food all the time and going in bins etc , changed onto a different food and problem stopped ,

what food did you change onto ? Because i dont want to go back on tins, butchers, pedigree etc becasue in my opinion they are noooo good. I like weinwrights because its better quality and not too expensive!!

also is there anything I may be able to mix in wit her weinwrights meal that is cheap and easy bu will maybe be good for her aswell as make her feel a little bit fuller??

Based on your description of her poos it sounds like the Wainwrights is full of indigestible fibre, hence the crumbly dry poos.

Foods that my own dogs have done particularly well on have been Arden Grange lamb and Rice and other praise fish 4 dogs.

Of lower priced foods my own older dogs have found Autarky useful as the herbs in it stopped one of mine getting occasional bouts of indigestion with bringing up yellow bile.

No one food suits all dogs or owners or p[pockets.,

The main thing to look at re ingredients is a high percentage of animal based protein (look for at least 25% meat/Fish meal) by dry weight.  Avoid colourings and artificial preservatives.

We tried Wainswright food 2/3 years ago but like you I could tell my dogs were hungry all the time! They'd never been like this before and I switched to James Wellbeloved - the problem disappeared! Now all mine are fed raw :-)

i was going to put her on james well beloved but decided to put her on weinwrights as was told it was pratically the same just a lil bit cheaper, but now may go with what my first choice was :)

Weinwrights box says - Turkey and rice. dont use wheat or mixed meat proteins. everything that goes in is easily digested. Composition - 65% turkey, minerals, seaweed, chicory root.
does not say any colourings or artifical preservatives. Maybe she does just not get on with turkey or rice ???

Try this website http://www.csjk9.com
The owner ceri@csjk9.com is very helpful and offers great advice, they also sell dog food to suit most pockets. I know many people on this forum use her food, she will also send it to you if you don't have a stockist near you. Well worth a chat with her.

Hi,

Don't worry so much about the composition, you need to look at the Analysis bit where is says how much protein. For a puppy I would be looking at 28% - 30% protein. If it has no wheat, that means it is probably hypoallergenic which just means it is suitable for dogs that have a wheat/gluten intolerance.

I feed Skinners which for my girls has done them really well, but be careful as some of their foods do have colourings. I feed the working variety as it is a good constitution and is VAT free which makes it an excellent price too. I am not sure where you live and if you could buy it locally but they are on the internet. I'm a trainer so I know lots of people with dogs and in current financial times I have recommended Skinners time and time again and several people have changed from James Well Beloved, Arden Grange and Wainwrights. Including a friend who has 4 lurchers, one of which is wheat/gluten intolerant which causes his skin to become very sore and itchy, which he rubs and causes wounds mainly on his head. Since she changed from the Wainwrights Hypoallergenic onto Skinners Hypoallergenic duck and rice his skin is better than it ever has been, even though it is still not perfect!

Also my new pup is 3 and a half months old and from the age of 7 weeks she would run into kitchen when someone went in there, especially if they made any noise getting a drink or making something to eat, as this is where her food is made up and she thinks that any food must be for her! She is very food orientated and it sounds like your pup is too, this doesn't have to be a bad thing, it will help you loads with positive training! Where as my setter is the polar opposite and is not a big foodie, so now even though she is 19 months old she is still fed puppy food for the extra protein (and she does do one hell of a lot of running!).

Hope this helps! I could bang on about food all day from all the research I have done recently, but I'll leave it there.

Oh one more thing, recently a friend was feeding her puppy Caeser puppy food from those little sachets.......they call it a complete food too....I looked at the analysis and nearly fell over.....from memory 12% protein FOR A PUPPY!!!!!!! OMG! So in a nut shell I do not feed any wet food as over 80% of it will generally be water. If anything I give a little freeflow mince to spice it up!

Hi Sue,

I was interested to read your post as CSJ emailed me recently to ask if they could come and give me and some of my clients a presentation about their products. I have not replied to them yet as I had not heard of them.

It also says in the email that they only sell via local distributors?

How long have you been using this food etc? And what breeds do you have?

Any information appreciated.

Jo

Hi Jo,
I used the basic Champs food for several years ( went through a financial crisis when OH died and needed a good cheap food ) and I had a GSD with inflamm. Bowel Syndrome and Ceri advised on additives and food for her. My other dogs apart from GSD were C. Spaniel and terrier. My daughter is still feeding this Champs to her 3 boxers and terrier and they are all doing very well and in good condition and weight. I have recently moved my remaining 2 dogs ( lost the GSD recently ) to a different food, but would still recommend the CSJ. I still buy salmon oil etc from here.

It also says in the email that they only sell via local distributors?

As we don't have a stockist near us my daughter has it delivered directly from CSJ, she usually buys 12 bags at a time, however you can buy just 1 if you wish. She offers several qualities of food the Champs being the most economical ( I think )

> Also my new pup is 3 and a half months old and from the age of 7 weeks she would run into kitchen when someone went in there, especially if they made any noise getting a drink or making something to eat, as this is where her food is made up and she thinks that any food must be for her!

Yes my girl also does this. And yes being food orientated it does make training easyer, and recently we have come on leaps and bounds. But it has not always been the case. In the first couple of weeks of having her is when she learnt most of what she noes now, and then all training had to be put to a stop, as she went of food, his dinners and breakfast ASWELL AS treats. She would still like high demand treats like some chicken or sausage and would work for a bit, but only what she already knew, so like sit or beg, if i tried anything new she would just walk of and was so not interested. But then after switching to weinwrights it was like she was never a fussy eater and was like when i first had her, and then training began again and if now going very very well :)

Just looked at the weinwrigts info and only 11.7% protein :( OMG :( I had no idea this was important i just looked and compared meat in them and weinwrights was alot higher than tins. I will check out on the net the food you have rccomended and also the food 'sillySue' reccomended :)

Be careful 11.5% in dry food would look higher than tin food, that's normal! You can't compare like this!
You have to compare the % of protein on the dry matter in both the kibble and tin food!

I suspect 11.5% protein would be a wet food, and the dry puppy food would be at least 28%.

> Oh one more thing, recently a friend was feeding her puppy Caeser puppy food from those little sachets.......they call it a complete food too....I looked at the analysis and nearly fell over.....from memory 12% protein FOR A PUPPY!!!!!!! OMG! So in a nut shell I do not feed any wet food as over 80% of it will generally be water. If anything I give a little freeflow mince to spice it up!

I think you are comparing the protein percentage with that of a dry food and therefore thinking 12% is incredibly low compared to the 28% etc of dry kibble when in fact it is higher. As you say the moisture of the foods is very different and has to be taken into account.

In simple terms if you bring this down to a dry matter basis to liken a wet food to a dry food, the protein content would be about 4 times the declared percentages, this is because there is approximately 75% moisture in the wet product and 25% dry matter. So a wet food that is 10% protein (x4) would actually be nearer 40%.

I tried to edit my previous post to add this but was timed out, so here it is:

From a previous search on this subject HuskyGal posted this, which describes what I was trying to say:

"To correctly calculate the protein content in any food (wet or dry) you should first remove the moisture content from the equation. So for example's sake Naturediet is 75% moisture; then you'd need to look at the protein %age on the pack; Naturediet varies from 7 - 12% depending on the variety; divide the %age of protein by the dry matter and multiply by 100 this will give you the ACTUAL protein %age which is as follows:

7/25 x 100 = 28% protein,
10/25 x 100 = 40% protein,
12/25 x 100 = 48% protein"

HTH

Thanks, very informative and got my brain going on a Sunday afternoon!

Another vote for CSJ here too.

I've used it for about 6 years now.  After going through Burns (they were like toast racks) Burns Active - great food until they changed the formula, Autarky - didn't agree with them. 

Brought up a litter on CSJ puppy food mixed with JWB (at least one of the foods would be locally available to owners)  and had all mine on CSJ That'll Do, but the youngest one was still mental.   Then last year we could only get bags of Champ as the delivery couldn't get through because of the weather and where the people lived (top of a mountain in Wales)   suddenly youngest was 'normal'  and the others were doing well too so we've stayed with it.