Hi all, would just like your thoughts on this and whether or not you follow these precautions with your own girls. My gsd girl Piper is due to be mated next week, this is her 2nd (and last) litter. She produced a huge litter of 13 last year, 8 days early, the only intervention she needed was a oxytocin jab in the early hours to get the last 2 babes out. She was perfectly fine afterwards.
Anyway, since then i have moved to a new area and although my old vet has said he is more than happy to keep us on his books it would mean that in an emergency we would need to drive over an hour away. I have joined a new vet and today was discussing out of hours care etc (nothing like being prepared) for when she (hopefully) whelps. He also mentioned that they insist on seeing the bitch on the same day after whelping for a routine x ray and oxy jab and a weeks course of antibiotics. I asked the need for this if all is well with the bitch and she doeesn't require this and he said that these are the conditions the practice insist upon??

Of course if she needed intervention she would get it but i don't like the idea of having to take her to the vets for this if she is well and settled with her babies. Any thoughts??

They simply cannot insist upon it. She is YOUR dog and you are their PAYING client. They are providing you with a service, not the other way around.
If it was me and my bitch had whelped and all was well afterwards then I would not be taking them for a needless vet check and treatment- including a GA or sedation- ridiculous (the risk of infection and stress outweighs the unnecessary treatment this vet is offering).

Obviously if there are any concerns about her then follow the vets advice, but I think this is almost money grabbing insisting on an xray.

I would seriously be looking for another vet, ones that are after money (and there are some that do!) rather than what is in the best interests for the bitch and pups (ie, a general anaesthetic or sedation is NOT in the best interests of a bitch that is seemingly settled and happy after whelping!) should be avoided.

I would say no and explain why (vets quite often back down and see things differently when they realise you are not an idiot and are prepared to walk...).

Thanks both, i did explain that i was not happy with this and that of course i would bring her in if i felt something was wrong but did not think it was necessary to do these things routinely and put her at risk (unsettling her or the risk of picking something up at the vets and bringing it back to pups).

I have taken mine in for a check up - but wouldn't go anywhere that 'insisted' on 'routine x-rays and oxy jab' as that for me is something only in case of a problem - and I'd rather a scan than an xray and certainly wouldn't put any of mine under anaesthetic for no reason.  They work for you, they can advise you, but they can't 'insist' on unnecessary treatments.  There must be other, more sensible, vets.

I too would be looking for a different vets,they can't force you to bring her in or refuse to treat her should you need to bring her in at a later date.

They obviously see breeders as easy pickings where money is concerned and there will be those that follow what they say to the letter. I agree a scan will pick up any pups lagging behind without the need for sedation. 
Your bitch free whelped previously so hopefully it will be the same again.

Insist?! I'm sorry but unless you're concerned, don't comply to it. I took my bitch in the day afterwards, and my vet said to me in her pre-whelp check up that if I wasn't worried and all was fine, to just leave it a few days.

>Of course if she needed intervention she would get it but i don't like the idea of having to take her to the vets for this if she is well and settled with her babies. Any thoughts??

Yes, plenty!!!  :-)

Like you, I would always see a vet if it was necessary, and would not begrudge any money spent on one of my bitches.  But I do expect my vet to accept that I am experienced enough to make the right judgement.

I have had an x-ray immediately prior to whelping when I thought there was a problem, but routinely??  I don't think so.  And, unlike some breeders, who prefer to get a bitch contracting afterwards, I don't ask for oxytocin after.  Like you, prior to, if needed.  So I consider that you ideas are exactly the same as the majority of experienced breeders.  I would not want to take my bitch to the surgery after a normal whelping, and risk her picking up any infection.  It's a different kettle of fish if she has problems.  I think you need to go with your gut instinct here.  A novice would, hopefully, have a mentor to guide them, but you know your own bitch.

I think you know that most of us agree with you!!  :-)

I'm with Jean. I absolutely detest the thought of taking a newly whelped bitch to the vet routinely, both for her own sake (the stress), for the sake of the pups (could get cold) and for the sake of possibly picking up infections (a risk which will be much higher soon after she has whelped). I also don't like oxytocin used for no real reason -why put the bitch through more pain? If my vet wanted to x-ray (imagine all the risks involved -sedation or GA, much bigger risk of infection, and the bitch may reject the pups afterwards due to being confused after sedation or GA -it does after all happen at times after c-sections) for absolutely no reason at all other than wanting to make money, then I'd change vet.

Hi, last yr my bitch went to the vet the day of whelping - we thought there was another pup to come. Vet did scan first then x-ray to double check - no more pups. However, a routine x-ray of an unsedated dog aint easy! Mine was, she's used to doing down stays & holding her position on her side & she's quite chilled, even after giving birth so there was no need to sedate her, just put a few sandbags on her shoulder & hips!! But if your dog isn't like her then she could become needlesly stressed.

Also I would never, ever have oxytocin administered as a 'routine'. Different bitch who whelped this year had a 'problem' diagnosed 3 days after whelping. If she had been given oxytocin on the day of whelping she would have bled to death. (An extreme case maybe, but we didn't expect to be an extreme case :-( )

My vet is a 40 min drive away. I chose to stay with them as I've many years of trust!

Personally i'd stay on books of both (thankfully vets are not like doctors!) and play it by ear at the time. Also talk to the new vets and ask them to explain their reasoning on their routine recommendations, do they instill you with confidence?

Good luck with whelping , how exciting :-)

Darn, sorry just re-read ... good luck with mating :-)

>However, a routine x-ray of an unsedated dog aint easy!

Believe it or not, I did it 2 years ago with a Chihuahua bitch.  It was a first litter, and her contractions were lovely and strong.  I wouldn't leave her any longer than an hour, I just knew something was not quite right.

The out of hours vet (it's always at night isn't it?)  wanted to x-ray her rather than scan.  She was positive that she knew the problem, and pups would be too big.  I couldn't be bothered to argue, after all the work I put in to get it right with these small breeds. 

My bitch was good as gold, and we could clearly see what was going on.  Two pups, side by side, in the same horn, packed so tight, that she was never going to move them down, bless her.  I knew this was just bad luck and you have no control over malpresentations, but they looked like conjoined twins.  Heads were level, feet level, exactly the same size.

A section produced 2 identical pups, a boy and a girl, exactly the same weight.  If I ever decide to breed from this bitch again, I would expect a normal whelping.

we xrayed a bitch unsedated a couple of weeks ago, i held her head down and she was good as gold.
we xrayed Prior to her whelping as she had her temp drop 72 hours earlier,  had a couple of contractions early morning and then nothing,
she was 2 days over due date, everything was normal in the xray and sure enough she had her pups when we got back from the vet!

> i held her head down and she was good as gold.
>

This is against the law in the UK as no-one is allowed to be present while the x-ray is taken.

Not even with those protective aprons? I see it a lot on vet and wildlife programmes!

Sometimes it's possible if you're staff, but not a member of the public.

> Sometimes it's possible if you're staff, but not a member of the public.

I would have thought the opposite as it is the staff that are in danger of too frequent exposure.
I did not think there was any law against it just recommended guidelines.

wow i didnt realise there were guidelines like that over there,  here in NZ we have no problems with it aslong as you are wearing the vests, over 18 and not pregnant lol

> i didnt realise there were guidelines like that over there

Actually I don't know if there is generally.  I do know the BVA issue guidelines for professionals because I have seen something about it in the Hip Scheme details but I really don't think there is anything laid down about owners although perhaps individual veterinary practices may have their own protocols.