Hi, I'm hoping to get some opinions from people experienced with owning some of the breeds typically considered to be guard breeds by which I mean breeds like: Rottweiler; Doberman; German Shepherd and Bullmastiff.

We are researching which breed would fit into our family (2 children aged 5 at the moment, 2 cats, one female cross-breed) best. Why the above mentioned breeds? Well let me be clear the guarding tendancy is not my top priority by a long shot (trainability and suitability with kids are way more important, plus not being hyperactive) but as I (female) will be responsible for walking the dogs and we are soon going to be living in a more rural setting I would appreciate having a dog that by its looks alone would be a deterant and thus I will feel safer and our property less likely to be broken into. I dont really expect the dog to ever have to do anything to protect me, I know a true protection dog would likely be unsuitable anyway for a family setting, I would just like one that has the looks to deter trouble. Add to that I love dogs with a good working/training mentality that are steady and not basically nuts like a border collie.

Anyway, my main conern about these breeds is the potential for dog to dog agression with strange dogs (I would get a male as already have a bitch at home). I understand the importance of socialisation and would definately be going to training classes from puppyhood onwards. I would like to know though what the chances are that despite my best efforts I would still end up with a dog I have to keep away from strange dogs when out. Is it something I just have to accept with these types of dogs? Are there things that reduce the risk, like breeding lines/temprement of the puppy in the litter etc? Any experience/thoughts would be much appreciated.

Another factor would be exercise requirements - I know I can give an adult dog an hour a day regularly, 40 min or so free running off lead and 20 min or so training/playing/agility in the garden type stuff - is this enough for a Shepherd or Dobbie, from what i've read I tend to think this is ok for a Rottie or Bullmastiff but maybe not the other two.

Again any comments suggestions/other more suitable breed suggestions would be great, thanks

Leonberger, big and impressive/imposing, unusual enough to not be known for the cuddly bear it is.

On the other hand I have a little known medium size breed which makes a great watch dog, but is not really a guarding breed at all, though will protect if needed.  This has been more than enough for me as a lone parent bringing up two children.  the dogs look the part, but generally they treat everyone as a friend unless given reason otherwise.

I decided that I preferred not to have the responsibility of a breed with more protective/guarding traits than just alert looks and a good voice.

> Leonberger, big and impressive/imposing, unusual enough to not be known for the cuddly bear it is.
> ....the dogs look the part, but generally they treat everyone as a friend unless given reason otherwise.

Good point - people are often wary of any dog that has the same look or colouring as a Rottweiler, Dobermann or German Shepherd as they often mistake them for being that breed, or a cross. Leonbergers are fawn with a black mask (obviously must be half "Alsatian" !!) and any owner of a medium to large breed with upright ears (which isn't obviously a husky) also owns one! lol... There are a lot of breeds which look the part but don't actually have the guardiness - a trait that can occasionally be difficult to manage [and that may be through circumstances outside your control.]

Thanks for the suggestion, yes I have considered Leo's and I love them lots but hubbie prefers the shorthaired breeds so checking them out first really.  And I love the looks of all the Nordic breeds as well so if you can suggest one that will definitely come back when it is called then I will be happy to research it :) Obedience is quite a priority.

My thinking exactly.

I have a close friend and neighbour who has always had dobes, great dogs, but the responsibility takes a lot of the fun away when walking them.

We used to chuck her four and my four in the car and go to the country park (usually very early in the morning).

I was used to being able to let mine meet and greet and not really worry too much as they were not reactive with other dogs and generally didn't frighten people being medium size.

Quite they opposite for my friend who actively avoided other dog walkers and people with children, not because her dogs had any issues,b ut purely based on likely reactions, Small dog syndrome, or worried parents.

Then what to do when her dogs were attacked by a smaller dog?  It would of course be her dogs fault.

> And I love the looks of all the Nordic breeds as well so if you can suggest one that will definitely come back when it is called then I will be happy to research it :-) Obedience is quite a priority.

He he, mine have mostly been pretty good off lead, but absolute obedience is not their thing, and for some nordic breeds it is best not to ever let them off lead.

Smooth impressive but easy going????

Hamiltonstovare blanket tricolour, lovely nature, but a hound so not super obedient I woudln't think, but the ones I have known have been fine off lead in a large open space like a country park (but were owned by someone who had always had well trained collies).

OP, I have a rott and despite ongoing training and socialisation he can be horrible and a total liability in public!  He is fab with me and with people he knows and trusts but it takes a long time for him to trust anyone so would be of no use in the house if your children ever have friends round.

He is definitely a deterrent and has a woof that turns bowels to jelly and I find him quite easy to read and can predict his behaviour before it comes but it has taken a while to get to that point.  My boy has an extremely high prey drive and although it has taken 3 years for me to modify this to the point it is manageable it is only if I use an 'interruption' command that he won't chase bikes, cars, buses, joggers etc. 

My boys father is the biggest lump of couthiness you could ever meet and although his mum is quite a strong character, I believe all the pups from the litter were very headstrong.  In all honesty I am painting a bleak picture but you could end up with a dog like mine no matter how much research you do and how much effort you put in and he is not a family pet for anyone who isn't able to control his environment every minute of the day.  The flip side of this is that there are many rotts out there that are amazing family pets, totally trustworthy and can cope with ear pulling, lots of kids running about etc without responding to any of it.

The other thing is that due to the tails, he looks like a fat lab from the back (despite being a very slim rott) which isn't a deterrent at all.  I would say stay away from rotts given your circumstances and find another large woofer that will meet your needs.

>we are soon going to be living in a more rural setting I would appreciate having a dog that by its looks alone would be a deterant and thus I will feel safer and our property less likely to be broken into.

For home protection purposes any dog that makes a noise, however small, is better than a silent one, however big. Most terrier breeds (being notoriously fond of the sound of their own voices) are better burglar deterrents than most 'guarding' breeds.

ali-t has a good point. I own a large gsd love the breed and he is lovely but I also have a flatcoat retriever the general publics feelings about my gsd are so obvious. A walk Is always one on which you are extra alert because of his breed if he so much as looks at anither dog it is his fault regardless of what the other dog is doing. In fact I would reiterate everything ali has said. As long as you are of the character than can deal with all that gsd make fantastic family pets and I know many who are indeed good family pets and they would probably give you all your want but please remebr the gp are funny with them generally and theycan be guardy. Walking him is a far cry from walking my naughty flat coat who atm actually is a pest :) and at 9mths old wants to greet everyone has forgotten her recall and will jump on anything if allowed still she can get away with it where he couldnt.
Now for noise my pom x chihuahua could beat the lot I call her my alert dog !!
Hamiltonstovare nice looking dog  brainless
  

> I have a close friend and neighbour who has always had dobes, great dogs, but the responsibility takes a lot of the fun away when walking them.

Exactly what I meant - and also refers to the poster with the Rotties who said the same thing more or less. With breeds that have a natural guarding instinct, they not only need a big amount of socialisation to 'proof' them to things they are not meant to guard against; but as I mentioned in my above post, sometimes things outside your control can change that which leaves you with a reactive, over-guardy dog, and that can be a lot harder to live with afterwards.

I have heard of dogs becoming very guardy and possessive after attempted break-ins; or a bad encounter with a stranger on walks that looked (to the dog) that he/she meant harm. I speak from experience here --- as in my own case, it was gangs of male teenage youths who shouted at my dog (not to me though - they thought it was a bit of fun to wind him up and watch him go) and the result is, even though we have moved away, he is still not trustworthy around any male teenagers.

While you may think you'd like a guard dog, it's a bit of a Pandora's box in reality and in the light of recent dogs attacks and the DDA, it's not a good time to own a dog with instincts of that kind unless you are totally prepared for any fallout.

Thats true Jeangenie, I fostered a bullmastiff and she never made a peep. My OHs bedlington cross though has to be seen to be believed, he has a huge deafening bark you'd think there was something enormous in the house if you were just going off the noise he made.
I also found that people sometimes gave nasty or worried looks when out walking the bullmastiff even though she was good as gold so she didn't get as much chance to socialise as a regular dog, a lot of people were reluctant to let their dogs come over to her, which is fair enough for wee dogs I guess as she could have easily hurt one just by standing on it (although she was always ever so careful not to tread on my own small dogs and seemed very aware of her size).
I found her to be a lovely dog who was very trainable, she is the only one I've really experience though so don't know how they are as a breed generally.

As has been mentioned by others, some things to consider:

The look of some dogs make is very hard to socialise them, people will actively avoid them and keep thier dogs away, which is the exact oposite of what you need to be doing to socialise pup/young dog.

Socialisation is not just for the first few weeks, it is on-going into adulthood.

Once adult, even a well behaved dog with a certain look can be hard to walk if you want to be a considerate dog-walker. People - grown adults - will feel wary of passing some dogs, people with children/babies will be wary of passing some dogs, people with dogs will be reluctant to get near some dogs.

>I know I can give an adult dog an hour a day regularly, 40 min or so free running off lead and 20 min or so training/playing/agility in the garden type stuff

A pup will only need 5 mins per month of age of forced excercise per day (probably less for a bullmastiff). However, the comitment needed in general trainnig and socialisation will be a LOT, the more 'guardy' the breed you opt for, the more hours you need to put in as the more 'guardy' a breed is, the more chance they have of behaving in an unwanted manner to things they are not used to. That can be anything form spooking at an umbrella (for example) to the other end of the spectrum by acting agressive at a percieved threat.

I have no experience of owning any of the breeds you mention, but I do have an English Mastiff, it really is nothing like owning any of the dogs I've had before.
I keep my livingroom curtains open at night, with the light on, so any potential burglar can see that I have a huge dog - they wouldn't hear him as he simply would not bark untill they were actually in the house. My dog was 3 years old before the postie knew we had him, and that was only because the dog popped his nose around the door when I was signing for a parcel! A big dog is a great visual deterrant when out & about with it, but it's pretty useless as a visual deterrant when it's shut in the house, nobody can see it and if it doesn't bark they wont even know it's there!

> For home protection purposes any dog that makes a noise, however small, is better than a silent one,

I agree with JG.  We live in a rural setting and my barkers would certainly deter a casual opportunist.  I have one terrier type (quite noise reactive), and two larger gundogs that join in, simply because they think they should.  Very few people would knowingly walk into that.  They are pretty well behaved but the terrier type likes people so looks 'keen' when on lead which means that strangers stand back when talking to me/asking directions etc.  He only wants a snog and to frisk their pockets - but they don't know that!

Don't look for a guard dog because of your situation - look for a good family dog first and foremost.  It's also worth considering though too that, in a rural area, you might need to consider a breed which will be ok with livestock.  We are surrounded by cattle, sheep, and horses which certainly influenced my decision to go with a gundog...

If it wasn't for the long hair, the Black Russian Terrier would be a good choice for you. They are very loyal dogs, obedient, and protective of their people (versus guard dogs that protect their territory).

They are also very big, but have a silly look when they are young, that won't make people wary of letting one near their dogs to socialise.

I do not have a natural guardian breed having a SBT however I totaly agree with the public reaction side of this debate, people step back although mine normaly is either looking to get a fuss or to have a closer inspection of their footie.

I think as most have said a bark is as much of a detterent as is needed, for most intruders would think twice once they were rumbled. And if they were not then no matter what type of dog you have would make no difference. Sounds like you need a watchdog not a guard dog.  
I know this may sound a little left field but how about a Standard Poodle does all of your requirments and then some I think.

I only have experience of owning a German Shepherd out of the breeds you've mentioned.

She was so loyal and protective to me and my children. If I let anyone in the house she was fine with them but outside was another matter! If there were any other dog walkers she didn't bother but if anyone without a dog came near she gave chase! I soon realised I had to keep her on a very short lead. I couldn't trust anyone else to walk her.

She was short haired but the amount of hair she shed was unbelievable! Even with daily vacing the kids complained about everything always been covered in dogs hairs.

What about a smooth collie? Very good with kids, very trainable but has a strong protective instinct and is not a small dog. It is pretty much the same as the rough collie (Lassie dog) but short coat.

I think the age of your kids is a key concern and for that reason i was not so sure about the Airedale or Giant Schnauzer- both of which have many of the traits you seek. However, all of these breeds are very bright and could not be left for hours alone- they'd all need to be with you doing stuff. The smooth collie just wnats to be with its family.

I live in a very rural area and feel quite safe with my Labs.

I would feel alot more concerned living in a town or city to be honest so would perhaps look at a dog more suitable to living both in the home with children and a dog that enjoys country walks that will enjoy meeting and socialising with other dogs and people.

Hi RosiesMum

Have you considered a Rhodesian Ridgeback? A well bred, well reared Ridgie would be suitable for your situation. I have had this breed for over 25 years and the majority of the pups that I've bred over the years have gone to family homes. Contact the clubs if you're interested, you can arrange to meet some "at home" - and be aware, we're a breed that has been targetted by the puppy farmers :(

If you're not in too much of a hurry, Crufts has a Discover Dogs section where you can meet representatives of all the KC recognised breeds and talk to their owners.

> Have you considered a Rhodesian Ridgeback?

This was one of the first breeds I thought of, but sadly in some places, mainly in the North they have already become the next 'hard dog' with badly bred examples getting into even worse hands.

So my advice here would be to ensure the poster went to a reputable breeder through the breed club/s.

They do need firm kind handling during adolescence, and some can be a bit dog dominant so if choosing a male a lot of doggy socialisation is advisable based on the dogs I have met, and the owners I have spoken to at shows.

I do think they coudl be ideal for the poster if she finds a breeder who will be very proactive with help and advise, and I know the breed has soem excellent breeders of this type..

Have you considered a Great Dane? We have had 5 over 40 years and they are a wonderful deterrent. They guard their property and are always alert inside and outside the house. All except the present one were good with children and cats and other dogs. The present one is an exception on all three counts. They have all been loyal. They are VERY trainable to a high level of obedience and working dog stuff like tracking and searching. They must be trained from puppyhood.
All mine have been rescues. A reputable GD rescue will make sure the adult dog is fit for your family but beware of the non specialist rescues. A puppy from a good breeder is possibly a safer bet.
A downside is their longevity- short- 10 years is reasonable.
Good luck!

Thank you all for your comments, I will definitely take on board what you have all said.

I would be interested to learn more about Ridgebacks, I knew a friend who had a male who was a darling of a dog but the only thing that put me off was that they said he was unreliable with other male dogs and really not that interested in training etc. (a "bit thick" was how they put it) and didn't bark at all. Not sure if this is typical of the breed though? I thought on balance I would prefer a Rottweiler to a Ridgeback if you were going to be stuck with the same potential dog agression issues anyway you may as well have a dog that is more interested in training.

Did consider the smooth collie at one point but would honestly prefer something a bit larger if possible, but yes I might go back to them. Do you actually think they still have a protective instinct? I know it says it in some of the things you can read but I spoke to an owner at DD and he said not really, too gentle spirited?

How are Danes for slobbering? My hubbie really does not want a slobbery, hairy dog. And yes the life expectancy :( so sad for such a great breed.

Any other breed suggestions would be appreciated as well, I will research them all - requirements being short haired, trainable, the larger the better, no slobber and at least aloof with strangers i.e. doesn't greet everyone with a wagging tail like a lab or goldie.

Thanks for the help

I have bernese and they would fit all your requirements except for the coat but have a look at the Great Swis or Swissy as they are known:-

The Swissy is a beautiful dog - both in appearance and nature, but be sure to do lots of research into whether the breed is really for you. Swissies love to be part of a family; they do not do well if kept in kennels away from their people. They love children, and are very tolerant, but as with all dogs should not be left alone with them.

Great Swiss Mountain Dogs need regular, sufficient exercise. Their minds need occupying as well as their bodies, as they are a true working breed. Despite having a short coat, they do moult, and regular grooming is necessary. They have a natural instinct to guard and protect their family, and a good training regime is vital.

Sound perfect but there are not many arround in the UK as of yet.
I have had GSD's in the past (Many) and have had some who were easy with children people dogs etc.. and one or two notable ones who were very definatly not so if you go down that route be very cautious.
I only know two Rotties one is fine the other a walking nightmare!! and the only 2 Ridgbacks were the same one I see often is lovely the other I knew some years ago was a very dubious nature. Good and bad can come in all breeds and a huge part of what any dog will turn out like is up to you and how you socialize as a pup.
Enjoy your search.
Aileen

Ridgebacks are a beautiful,bright and loyal breed once you gain their trust.They are trainable but simply don't enjoy or see the point in repetition.They do bark but not excessively and trust me it is very effective.Read up on them and I'm sure you will be impressed.Also as with all breeds make contact with a reputable breeder.Good luck.

How about one of the HPR breeds such as a GSP or GWP or even a Vizsla, large enough to be a deterrant and would love the country walks.

I have a male bullmastiff and he is my first.  He was a rescue, which came to us at 5 months old and is now 11 months.
I also have 4 kids, aged between 2yrs and 11 yrs, 3 spaniels,a cat and (new) a budgie and I groom dogs so I have loads of people/strange dogs coming and going.
I LOVE this breed.  As I have stated, this is my first bullie breed at all as I had akitas before (and spaniels.)  This dog is brilliant but we have done loads of socialisation at training classes and with other dog walkers.  He is so laid back in the house that he is horizontal!!  He never runs/jumps about so isn't knocking kids over and stuff.  He has a very easy-keep coat.  Mud just literally wipes off and if I bath him, he is dry in about an hour!  He looks mean but really doesn't have a bad bone in him.  He loves meeting new people but can 'look' the part.  He is also really protective.  Like if we are up the forrest roads and someone comes into the distance from behind, he makes sure I see them with his body language and will keep an eye on whomever till they pass us.  Don't know if he would actually 'do' anything but I like that he looks like he would!  Especially when I am there alone or with the kids!  He has never chased the cat as my cat is a mean tom and would do him in lol.  He has got a fasination for the budgie though and has tried to catch him so now I keep completely separate.  They don't take a lot of exercise at all either.  One thing is, my boy is a chewer.  Not anything terrible but plastic and soft wood are his drug of choice.  Up to date, the worse thing he has chewed is my kitchen chair.  He does this even though he gets bones and chews and I even give him the plastc bottles to kerb his urges.  I use a halti if I am walking him on-lead as he is so strong that he could pull me off my feet if he wanted.  I like to have control.
So, my vote is for the bullie.  Great with my kids(who climb all over him), great with the cat, great with other dogs(males and females)(although the males could change with maturity), great with people, fantastic off lead, All round brilliant breed.

I was going to say Bernese and Leo's too until you mentioned wanting a short coat. I spent some time talking to the Swissy people at Discover Dogs stand at Crufts this year and found out that they are very much like a cross between a Rottie and a Bernese.

I do have a Bernese and a Rottie. The Bernese is very much on guard within the grounds of the house and garden, its just him. Out and about he is brilliant and doesn't require too much exercise a day, however will keep going if needed. I think I got a bright button here as he is very god at obedience and was told I should continue at the high end competative stakes!!
The Rottie on the other hand just doesn't stop and no matter what exercise or training she has, a little kip and she is bouncing again!! After speaking to many owners(As new to this breed) its fairly common. I haven't had too much of an issue with other people with her, being that she is female and also with a tail not so scary to the general public. Oh and she is a useless guard dog, jumps in excitement as to who maybe coming to see her!! lol

A good friend has a male GSD, he is brilliant with other dogs on and off lead, however very rarely barks when anyone comes to the door of their home.

I am not sure what you townies think goes on in the countryside :) but I have never felt the need to walk with a guard dog. 
Like everywhere you make sensible decisions about where to go alone and at what time of day but I have never felt particulary unsafe walking with just a cocker spaniel or a terrier for company and you can make your home secure as you like without the need for any dog although a noisy one can be an asset :). 
Have a word with your local community police officer who will happily advise you of what you can do if this is a worry to you. 

I think the first consideration when buying a dog is simply how it will fit in with your family and your life style.  If I had children I probably would be making general affability a priority which, for me, and others may disagree :), would rule out anything remotely guardy.

> i.e. doesn't greet everyone with a wagging tail like a lab or goldie.
>

Why on earth not?  If you are moving home a friendly dog is going to be a great asset in meeting other people.

> How are Danes for slobbering? My hubbie really does not want a slobbery, hairy dog.

Then a Dane definitely not for you LOL. Hairy dogs a funny old thing - I would find the coat on a Leo far less trouble than a Dane, which leave needle sharp hair everywhere (the roof of your car would never be the same again!).

Mind you, I've fallen in love with a friend's Leo, so would definitely be looking at that in your circumstances. Have no idea if they're all like she is, but if they are I'd have one like a shot.

M.

I think you are on the same thinking as me on this one Stooge :-)

> The Rottie on the other hand just doesn't stop and no matter what exercise or training she has, a little kip and she is bouncing again!! After speaking to many owners(As new to this breed) its fairly common. I haven't had too much of an issue with other people with her, being that she is female and also with a tail not so scary to the general public. Oh and she is a useless guard dog, jumps in excitement as to who maybe coming to see her!! lol
>

Busters best buddy is a Rottie (entire male), he seems tireless too. His owner has said that it doesn't matter how much of a run he's had, he's always ready for another. The biggest problem the owner has when walking him, is the Rottie wants to jump up at people to greet them, he's soooooooo friendly :) There are a couple of dogs that he has issues with, but in all fairness the dogs are the sort that would have a go at Buster too, Buster wouldn't take it as a threat so ignore them, the Rottie on the other hand has less tolerance for being bossed about in such a way (but bless him, he has all the tolerance in the world for Buster).

> I think the first consideration when buying a dog is simply how it will fit in with your family and your life style.

Most defiantely :)

> If I had children I probably would be making general affability a priority which, for me, and others may disagree , would rule out anything remotely guardy.

Just curious, why would you rule out a guardy breed if children were a consideration?

> Just curious, why would you rule out a guardy breed if children were a consideration?

Lots of reasons really.  Children like to have friends round, strangers to the dog sometimes. The way children play can spook some dogs.  Other parents may worry about this too and this can restrict which children may be allowed to come to your home. 
All sumountable problems I am sure but, speaking personally, if I did not have a yearning towards a particular breed and was looking at dogs generally I would be looking for a breed with a reputation of being more affable to hopefully avoid all these issues.

>I know I can give an adult dog an hour a day regularly, 40 min or so free running off lead and 20 min or so training/playing/agility in the garden type stuff - is this enough for a Shepherd or Dobbie, from what i've read I tend to think this is ok for a Rottie or Bullmastiff but maybe not the other two.

Definitely not enough for a Dobermann in my experience.

You don't really need a dog that has guarding insincts or looks........all you need to do when walking your dog if a strange looking person is coming towards you is make it look like the dog isn't friendly by holding it on a short lead or even by the collar saying very loudly leave & look like your really struggling to hold on to your scary man eater lol

Asbo my 2 year old boxer is the friendliest dog I've ever known and trys his hardest to say hello to EVERYBODY but me holding on to his lead short & tightly and him pulling and puffing can some times look like he's about to launch onto someone, which he is........just in a kissing jumping up to say hello way but they don't know that ;) certainly makes me feel safe on a dark night!

Plus side to him aswell he only does that with adults........totally different round kids, he's still Mr friendly but in a calm manner and sits for children to stroke & cuddle him :)

> How are Danes for slobbering? My hubbie really does not want a slobbery, hairy dog. And yes the life expectancy :-( so sad for such a great breed.
>

My rott boy has quite loose flews and drools like nobodies business but this isn't something I noticed about either of his parents.  He tends to have a drool bubble and a dangling string of drool at any given time (worse when anyone is eating) and when he takes a drink the contents of it go everywhere and for the next 10m he walks.  He sheds a phenomenal amount of hair too and after having a staff that took no more than a wipe with a damp cloth, I find the grooming of my boy to be quite a lot in comparison.  I am only expecting my boy to live to around 10 years too and my staff who is 6 years older will probably outlive him :(

I am not trying to put you off but there is a lot of research required to get one that will meet your needs.

I met a mastiffxwolfhound  that belonged to a friend of a friend and she is the largest but couthiest dog I have ever come across in my life.  She looks really intimidating but is a total pussycat and has a woof that would shake your house foundations.  As she has the wolfhound in her she doesn't appear to moult much and it is wiry hair rather than having a double coat that sheds at double speed like the rott.

> Children like to have friends round, strangers to the dog sometimes. The way children play can spook some dogs.

I see your point :)
However, I do not need to be any more carefull with strange children visiting with my Mastiff, than I did with just my lab cross. BUT, I don't like having other peoples kids around so I must admit to using the dog as an excuse for not alowing them in, LOL :-D

What about a Giant Schnauzer ? certainly big and impressive looking with a guarding instinct but ( certainly the ones I've known ) not so full on as some of the other breeds you've mentioned.
My first dog was a white GSD and couldn't fault his nature, loved other dogs, even though he liked to be the boss, he never had to resort to aggression with dogs to impress upon them that he was top guy. He was friendly with people but had enough of a guarding streak to bark if I felt threatened, loved kids, and other animals. The big bonus with him was that people didn't feel so intimidated by him ( I think ) because of his colouring,although he could step up to the mark if required.

I live in an annex in my daughters house in a very rural setting and between us we own 3 Boxers, 1 Spaniel, 2 Patterdales and until a few months ago a beautiful GSD. All visitors are welcomed into the house with very waggy tails, children are adored by all the dogs. However if anyone attempts to come in UNinvited well the boxers and spaniel would do nothing but God help them escape from the 2 Patterdales !!!!!

Ok, I know I have Golden Retrievers, and the OP has already said not this breed but...

My dogs do protect the house. I have a large male (42 kg) who barks like crazy whenever the gate squeeks. I defy anyone to chance coming in once they've heard him bark - all they know is that a large dog lives there. And if the two girls join in... eek... a pack of large dogs!!! lol!!!

When I'm out with them, my boy is often shadowing me, and will go off to play then come back and "fall in line". I walk alone 99% of the time in lonely places and have never once felt threatened or worried they wouldn't protect me if needed.

If the OP is moving to a new area, I would think that having a breed of dog which others wouldn't shy away from is doubly important. After all, how are you ever going to make new friends, find people to walk the dog with, have other parents happy to let their children come to your home after school etc if you have a breed of dog which people are naturally cautious of?

The hair situation with a Golden is just the same as most other breeds, only a problem when moulting (or maybe I've just got used to it lol :)). They do slobber... sometimes... but that's usually when they're waiting for a bit of biscuit...

The thing with Goldens and Labs is that they do generally make a fab family pet, have friendly personalities, and are not normally dog aggressive, so as long as they have been bred for temperament (obviously there are some bad apples), it's fairly difficult to make a complete hash of owning one if you're a novice. The same can definitely NOT be said for the guarding breeds mentioned.

I can't think of a better breed to bring your children up with personally. I know I am a tad biased, but having spent the last 20 odd years with Goldens in our home, it would be a very sad place without one...

Good luck with whatever you choose, and a huge thumbs up for doing your research before buying.
Tanya

Great Danes, well I have only known a few but they seem to be a bit on the clumsy side to have around small children, you know the sort of thing a ten acre field with one tree that the Dane will manage to run into, and can confirm they do slobber.

Think almost any hound would suit you well apart from their independence and the fact that they think they know best.

Guard dogs are fine but you do need to be careful to buy from only the very best type of breeder and meet plenty of their adult dogs to check the temperament and steer clear of the mastiff types because of slobber.

Would have to say that from the point of view of a dog that made a reasonable loud noise but was friendly and biddable I would suggest you need to consider some of the gundog breeds. But even a dog that is born to obey needs training, how much depends on the standard you require for your comfort.

> a dog that made a reasonable loud noise but was friendly and biddable

My auntie has a basset hound - wow what a racket she makes sounds like a massive dog when you hear her barking, but such a friendly thing :)

> look at the Great Swis or Swissy as they are known:-
>
>

Again these came to mind but I did wonder about the likely availability for a purely pet home with the breed being so new into the UK???

I too have a Golden Retriever who has a wonderful temperament but his bark is very loud and he sounds really fierce when anybody unknown knocks at the door. Most callers step back along the path when they hear him and are quite wary when I open the door. I tend to take him to the door with me but hold him behind it and just open the door a little way so they can hear but not see him :-) He stops barking when I tell him to and is a great watchdog from the barking point of view. The terrier also makes a great hullaballoo but he's not so good at being quiet when asked to be.

I walk in very remote areas - woods, fields and forests - and have never felt uneasy with just the dogs to accompany me. I did once meet a very odd chap walking in the woods - he was wearing a suit but had no socks or shoes on and it was the middle of winter :-O . I just called the dogs to me and held on to them and told them both to "leave" - and this odd chap walked on by with a wary glance at the dogs.

For me health and temperament are paramount in any dog we share our lives with especially where there are children in the home and that is my first consideration. Country living IMHO is far safer than living in some of the urban areas and I feel more comfortable walking in the countryside than I do in the towns.

Yes the hair can be a problem but that is the only down side of owning GRs and the pros far outweigh the cons :-)

> I think the first consideration when buying a dog is simply how it will fit in with your family and your life style.  If I had children I probably would be making general affability a priority which, for me, and others may disagree <img alt=":-)" src="/images/default/sml_pos.png" class="sml" />, would rule out anything remotely guardy.

This IS the first consideration, as I mentioned in my original post compatability with children and trainability are my top priorities. I like the typical guardian breeds that I mentioned because 1) I think their look as a deterant is something I consider a plus point and 2) well bred examples have steady, trainable temperements, are not flighty nervous or hyperactive. 

Based on anecdotal evidence of friends experiences I personaly consider the dogs more likely to bite children to be terriers (but not Bull or Staff), spaniels and collies. Also I think well bred bullie breeds and molloser types to be one of the best choices for a family dog as they are very tolerant of accidental rough play and are not snappy dogs. But of course as you say others will disagree/have completely different experiences.

The difference in safety between the town and country to me is very small, I've lived in both. The main difference when walking the dogs is that the late evening walk is now going to be a dark, quiet, isolated country lane and not near to plenty of houses on a well lit street. I personaly just feel safer with a large dog that looks the part.

To all who have suggested that I should have a friendly dog so I can meet new people - I dont want to meet new people! I have enough friends that I like and have no desire to aquire any more. I walk my dogs for peace and relaxation, not to socialise.

I do not have 2hrs plus to exercise my dog everyday so this may indeed rule out everthing except the Bullmastiff, but also I think rules out Schnauzers, Goldies/Labs and most other gundogs. Plus I dont want a Lab or Goldie, just not my thing.

I have looked into the Swissy, such a good looking dog, but I get put off because I detect a degree of unpleasantness between two prominent breeders i.e there are two breed clubs that have nothing to do with each other.  Just don't have enough confidence in the breed in this country to part with the kind of money they are asking for. Plus I have been informed by American breeders that some males are still dog dominant/agressive so again why not just go with a Rottie or Bullmastiff that I don't have to pay £1,000 plus for?

Having a dog desperate to say hello on a short lead so looks likes its really scarey ha ha ha, I think that is a great idea!

Folk coming to the door and hear my lot barking are amazed when I answer the door with a mini longhaired dachshund under my arm, they ask me do I have a larger breed too as they can't imagine a small dog having such a big dog bark.

My son grew up with my Mums dachsie, he was so tolerant, the longhair on his ears would grabbed by sticky fingers but he would gently move away till the hair was free. If you saw the dog in the garden or the house you knew my son wasn't far away.

Although longhaired the don't need lots of grooming, the hair on their paws and their nails once a month and their coat a couple of times a week.

If you want a larger one then the standard longhaired dachsie has the same laid back attitude as their mini cousins.

Good luck with your search

> Having a dog desperate to say hello on a short lead so looks likes its really scarey ha ha ha, I think that is a great idea!

Pst, that's the trick I have always used with my lot, works very well in urban Bristol. ;)

I think if you have a well bred Rottie then you won't go far wrong. My breeder as do many breeders have young children around them with no issues. I think you just have to be aware of the males and the fact that they can be dominant with others out and about.

They can be very active and are notorious for chewing. The other thing to also think about is those from working lines as in any breed will be much more 'up for it'. Mine isn't from working lines, however she is non stop until she crashes for about 30mins and then off she goes again,lol..

Have you thought about meeting up with a local breeder of the dogs of your choice in their home, ask to take your children to see how they interact. I think you do need to see these breeds in their homes and also out on a walk to get a good idea on what they are really like.

> I do not have 2hrs plus to exercise my dog everyday so this may indeed rule out everthing except the Bullmastiff, but also I think rules out Schnauzers, Goldies/Labs and most other gundogs. Plus I dont want a Lab or Goldie, just not my thing.

I actually think most breeds of dog will be OK with less than 2 hours a day. I also think that most breeds will take as much exercise as their owners will give them and if a dog is used to an hour a day (or less) it will be perfectly happy with that amount of exercise. If you take them out for 3 hours a day they will come to expect that. I feel time spent with your dog is far more important than giving it hours and hours of exercise every day. JMHO