Hi there

New to the form and after some advice please.
Long post sorry :/

We have a 61/2 month old Springer pup.
when we were getting him chipped at 12 weeks of age, our vet noticed that his lower left side canine puppy tooth was growing straight up instead of to the side.  We were advised to keep an eye on this as his adult teeth came through.
I had him at the vet again two weeks ago to have his teeth check as all his adult canine teeth had came through but the puppy teeth were also still there (was a different vet I saw, not his usual one).
The vet advised I booked him in to have these teeth removed, He was booked in for last Wednesday, we took him up, when we arrived, no one new what he was in for!! Then his usual vet asked to have a look at his teeth, she refused to operate on him and we were told we would be refered to a specialised dentist, because the dentist is a long way away, they asked us to take pictures of his mouth and teeth and email them down to them.
What they have advised needs done is Extraction of retained deciduous canine teeth, this is cyrrently 3 teeth as one came out, his lower left adult canine is to have a crown amputation and partial coronal pulpectomy.  So a lot of extensive work.
Has anyone had this treatment done and what was the out come???
Ive done a bit re-search on the net but cant find anyone that has had this preformed to there dog!!
Also I have been giving him bone hoping this may shift the puppy teeth but so far it has not, none of my other two dogs have had teeth problems or been under a gereral anasthetic(spelling!!!) so that is a worry on its own...
The vet has also said this is a inherited condition and has been passed down the lines, we bought the youngest for showing, but if this work gets done, I am guessing I wont be allowed to show him???
Any advice would be most welcomed, we are booked in for the operation this coming monday :(

I've had pups that have had retained deciduous teeth removed but nothing more specialist than that, I'm afraid.

Not that uncommon for dogs to retain their first teeth after the permanent teeth have erupted but a marrow bone will often move them but I have not come across any pup needing specialist treatment. Toy breeds do often have the retained teeth removed by the vet but nothing more. Think if it were a known problem in the breed we would all be aware of it.

I would be feeding raw chicken wings as well as marrow bones at this age to help loosen the puppy teeth.  I've never hear of a pup needing invasive treatment at such a young age.  Unless the lower canine was at risk of piercing the palate, I would think patience for a few months would be pertinent.

Thank you all for the replies.

Sorry I should have said that the adult canine has come through straight up, so pointing into the roof of the mouth, which is same as puppy canine!!
The roof of his mouth has not been punctured but there is a small red mark where the canine must be touching.
The vet wont allow us to wait but all they have seen is the pictures of his mouth that we emailed, he has no problems eating, drinking and he is munching on a marrow bone as we speak, I dont want to leave him to suffer, which I dont think he is in pain but I am concerned that at his age,he requires so much invasive treatment :(
Which turns out our insurance wont pay for as it is a problem with his puppy teeth, yet they would pay for his adult teeth if it had been chipped!!!!  So we are paying ourselfs and the quote is well very expensive, but if it has to be done , we wont think twice of doing it.

If it is the canine would it perhaps be worth considering removal rather than having the tricky work done. Our dogs have no need for the canine as long as they have the incisors for cutting and the molars for grinding the dog should have no problem having a canine removed. It should be considerable cheaper.

The vet was against removing the adult canine as "this holds his tongue in" I was told this by my vet!!!
The cost is not a problem, either way he has to have the puppy canines removed, which the gum is cut and opened to remove them, and it is only the one lower left adult canine to have the crown amputation and pulp ectomy.
I just feel he is rather young and I wanted ideally to find out the chances of the puppy canines coming out on there own rather than the extensive surgery.
I cant even ask for a second op as he is the only dentist arond here..

> The vet was against removing the adult canine as "this holds his tongue in" I was told this by my vet!!!

I've heard this as well. I might even believe it as we have an old boy whose tongue hangs out all the time - his canines are extremely small so maybe there's something in it.

So the vet maybe telling the truth, saying that the vet we have is very good :)

> the vet we have is very good :-)

That's a great thing if you can have confidence in your vet.

I wish I could remember where I heard that about the canines and the tongue. I'll ask OH when he gets in, his memory's better than mine.

Thank you

> The vet was against removing the adult canine as "this holds his tongue in" I was told this by my vet!!!

that sounds like a load of bulls**t to me. My old girl lost a canine but had no problems with her tongue.
If I were you I would watch and wait. My mums pup a few years ago had teeth which grew strangely. a canine looked like it would cause problems but as he grew it sorted itself our

either way he has to have the puppy canines removed
Some of mine don't loose their puppy canines until about 8 months so I wouldn't be in a hurry to have them removed.
Do you feed raw chicken wings?  I find that as they're cartilage they better at cleaning adult teeth and moving puppy teeth than raw marrow bones.
I would ask for referral to a Veterinary Hospital for a specialist proceedure.

Is there a certain way to feed the chicken wings??  All our dogs are fed dry complete.. I am a bit of a novice with the raw..
The dentist he has been refered to, is the only specilist in the UK!!!!

>  The vet was against removing the adult canine as "this holds his tongue in" I was told this by my vet!!!

> that sounds like a load of bulls**t to me.

My OH remembered where we had read this - I knew he would, memory like an elephant  ;-)  Anyway, it was in Trevor Turner (the Our Dogs vet)'s column of 02/09/11 titled 'A bit on teeth'

You would have to subscribe online to be able to read it, but we still had the paper here. This is the relevant bit:

"The two canines in each jaw ..... Another very useful function which is often overlooked is that they are essential for keeping the long tongue of the dog in place"

I know dogs' tongues are really long because our vet once anaesthetised one of ours in front of us and pulled out his tongue. I couldn't believe how much of it there was!

> Is there a certain way to feed the chicken wings??

I just hand mine out. The dogs crunch them a bit and swallow them down whole, with the broken bones held inside the skin. The little dogs take longer of course so I give them theirs away from the bigger dogs.

By the way, your dog dentist sounds most interesting. I'd like to read up on them - is there a website please?

With my 2nd dog his last puppy tooth came out when he was 11 months old. I reckon the chicken wings are worth a go.

> "The two canines in each jaw ..... Another very useful function which is often overlooked is that they are essential for keeping the long tongue of the dog in place"
>
> I know dogs' tongues are really long because our vet once anaesthetised one of ours in front of us and pulled out his tongue. I couldn't believe how much of it there was!

I know dogs have long tongues but still! My girl didn't have any problems in spite of losing her lower left canine and I am certain she is not the only dog who has lost one or more canines.

I haven't read all of the replies yet, so forgive me if this has already been mentioned.

This study uses a solid RUBBER BALL to align the canines in the proper position.   I have seen it done with good results on a six month pup.

http://www.toothvet.ca/PDFfiles/ball_%20therapy.pdf 

Seems to me that it's worth a try first, you always have the option of surgery of it doesn't work ;)

Regarding retained puppy canines, I have always found that a large knuckle bone every day, taken away once pup gets tired and then returned later for maximum interest and enthusiasm, does the trick.   Make sure that pup can get some of the bone in his mouth so that the retained teeth get some work ;)

> I know dogs have long tongues but still! My girl didn't have any problems in spite of losing her lower left canine and I am certain she is not the only dog who has lost one or more canines.

I daresay she isn't but I thought it might be of interest to the OP if I passed on to her some relevant info!

> solid RUBBER BALL

What an interesting link. This site is such a great place to learn.

I'm curious as to why you need such a specialist vet.  I have a toy breed that is reknowned for retaining puppy teeth.

I get my vet to check them at the 6 month puppy health check to see if any need removing.  It is usually only 1 or 2 teeth at the most.

But I did have one exception to the rule!  I had a youngster that retained every single tooth in the upper jaw, and they were above the permanent teeth.  It looked really peculiar and weird.  My own vet removed the lot, and made a super job of it.  It cost me just under £200, and he does a lot of work with dental problems.  Yet he is famous for his orthopaedic work, not dentals.  So why aren't all vets able to do dental work?

One of my girls hung on to their bottom canines till she was over 2yrs old, they were all perfectly aligned and vet said leave alone and if she ever needed surgery they could be removed then, one day I noticed both had gone, I doubled checked as I was so used to seeing them, I couldn't remember giving her anything different to chew on in the previous weeks, they were always rock solid when I had checked them in the past, very soon the gap closed and you wouldn't know now that there ever was a problem.

I think your dog is very young to be having such extensive dental surgery, puppies usually start losing their baby teeth at about 4mths old so only 10weeks has elapsed into this process so not long enough for it to have been completed naturally.

As to the teeth controlling the tongue our first ever dachsie back in the 70's had a very bad overbite and lost his teeth prematurely and his tongue hung out one side of his mouth and became very leathery regardless of how often he drank water or ate, he lived for at least another 5yrs after losing the last of his teeth and died age 13yrs of a kidney problem.

Keep us posted on how things go

Is there a certain way to feed the chicken wings??
A 6 month old puppy who has never eaten real food before will either not know what to do with it or be so excited that they will inhale it and reguritate it whole! :)
So in both cases I would hold one end of the wing while they learned to chew on the other.  Just one a day fed not at the same time as the complete food will be good.

Hi all
Thank you for all your messages, I gave Finn a wing this afternoon, he wasnt sure to start with then got straight to it.
We have also been giving him his raw bone inbetween meal time.
We noticed last night that the lower left puppy canine has started to move a little bit. It was solid before now a bit wobbly :)
After reading all the comments I am now not 100% sure I should be letting him go through all this at such a young age :(
I would do anything it takes to make sure he's 100% healthy but I am really wondering now if he is to young to have this work done???
I had a read through the link, it is great and being a spaniel he is obsessed with ball's, he always carrier one apart from when he's out as he never come's home with it :)
If any one has any other suggestions on how to help him moves these teeth (without causing pain) please let us know.
Thank you all for your suggestions so far
Lesley

You could massage the gums and put slight pressure on the new canine into the direction it should go.

Thank you
I will give that ago, he is starting to get a bit stressed when we try and look in his mouth, so now a have a sly look when he's playing, but anything is worth trying :)

The ball needs to be the right size and fit to be effective, just any ball won't do ;)   He also needs to be playing enthusiastically with it, rather than simply carrying it.  It's the action of biting down on the ball that exerts outward pressure on the teeth and effects movement.  He's about the right age for this as his jaw will still be growing and settling.   It does take a few weeks to make a difference.

If you can get him to 'rag' the ball with you it may make a difference :)