Hello everyone.

Well pups are three weeks old on Saturday; where did THAT time go?! I have Welpi, but I've heard a lot of breeders use goat's milk to soak the puppy kibble in and then blend it for puppy porridge. What do people here do? I'd prefer to use goat's milk as it's yummier than Welpi, and I think it'll be better for them, but I'm not going to leap in with only that in mind.

I've made a little porridge with kibble and Welpi and the pups have licked it off my finger quite happily, but how do you make the transition of finger to plate? I mean, should I just plonk them beside it and hope for the best?!

I fed my girl this morning and the pups went crazy trying to get to the bowl so I just soaked a little kibble into a mash, plonked it on a plate and put it down and watched the feeding frenzy begin!

As you know mine are 17 days, I wasnt planning on starting for another week but they are obviously ready for it!

We use Royal Canin puppy milk mixed with soaked kibble, mix to a mush, put it in the feeder and wait a split second for the rush.  We watch to make sure they all get their fair share and help if necessary.

I don't use milk at all, they get what they need from mum -and the few times I tried all pups ended up with diarrhoea. These days the first solid meal is always raw mince (SO easy to eat and no pup can resist it), after a few meals of that I introduce soaked and well mashed puppy kibble or if they are my toys well mashed up Nature Diet puppy. They the get 50/50 raw minces and commercial food (not in the same meal, split).

Hmm, okay then, will try it with the milk and then swap to water if we need to. I'm really looking forward to it but Drover your pups seem so ahead of mine, lol! Mine sleep, feed, and sometimes play a little and toddle. There's no rush for food bowl if Maisy eats in there or such.

What happens if I put it down and they all just walk in it and then wander off?

I soaked the kibble in boiled water rather than milk/welpi though I did add a little of the Welpi to it as we fed.  Mostly I'm using up what's left of my Welpi in making their evening scrambled eggs.

I didn't use nearly the amount of Welpi/milk replacer etc that I did last litter.  Last litter I used Lactol and used TONS of it.  So I ordered 2 big tubs of the Welpi expecting to use the same amount.  Nice thing with Welpi is that the amount used per amount of water is much less (wish I'd realised that before buying two tubs).  The only reason we're still using it is because it's here and it's a shame to see it go to waste, but as I said above, it's only in their scrambled eggs, and we've got lots left to send home with new owners.

> What happens if I put it down and they all just walk in it and then wander off?

Doubt very much that they'll ignore it unless they're already full up! If they don't want it I'm sure Mummy will. Ours generally walk in it, fall in it and get in a mess, Mummy cleans them all up afterwards.

I'll try to get them interested then, fingers crossed!

Wendy, I'm glad I have Welpi then, it came with the whelping kit in powder form. I'm not sure about the milk now, will add it and see how it pans out! I'm going to get something for them to eat out of on Saturday, a large plastic tray or similar. I'm kind of glad I only have four now!

>Drover your pups seem so ahead of mine,

I think yours and mine were born the same day.  Mum always has her food very close to pups.  A couple crawled off the vetbed and started licking wet puppy food at day 16, so I started mashing some and putting on a saucer for them.  I felt it was less likely to tip up, and they are only small pups.  They are eating a small amount, but find it far easier to lie/squirm in it, and then lick it off each others bellies.

Mine are three weeks on Saturday; I just tried them on a dish and they were great, all of them had a litlte lap and then rolled away again...Timmy just waded through it! Hoping that on Saturday we can get them going again.

Does anyone put them in babygrows to let mum's milk dry up?

Yes mine are 3 weeks this Saturday.  They are having a go at walking, but a little like Thumper with Bambi on the ice.  "Kinda wobbly ain't ya?"

I never, ever stop pups from suckling.  If mum had a need from a medical point of view, fine.  But mine are allowed to choose to feed or not.  I let them run away from pups and escape if they want to.  At the moment, my bitch is laying outside of the whelping box, staying close, but only going in to clean and feed. 

I find it perfectly normal for my bitches to suckle a pup on the day that it leaves home.  I have allowed this for years, and the milk tapers off naturally.

> Does anyone put them in babygrows to let mum's milk dry up?

No way, the milk will dry up naturally when the bitch decides to feed less and less.

Thanks, that's great then; I'm glad I asked!

Jean, mine are all walking now and you're right, they definately need someone to hold up their bums, LOL! They're started playing and mouthing which is just delightful to watch.

>They're started playing and mouthing which is just delightful to watch.

It sure beats doing the ironing!  :-)   I love it when they see something move, so they grab it with their mouth - and it's a siblings tail!  I could watch for hours.  I have often found the washing up still in the sink, and the soapy water has gone cold!   :-)

They have piddled all over the duck that I bought them!  I get so much pleasure from watching them develop, and can't wait to start introducing them to Collies.  My elderly Beardie bitch is always the first, as she loves to lie perfectly still while they crawl all over her.  But I do wait until they are more sure on their feet.

>Drover your pups seem so ahead of mine

Mine are a very different breed though!

Ive been using the blender after soaking the kibble as F4D tends to take ages to soak enough to mash it!

Well I got loads of toys today for them from Poundland (classy me!) which are sat pristinely in the corner as they nap. I got some baby teething rings too for them, and some soft toys.

My boy loves them, he gets in with them now and play bows, realises they won't play with him other than getting lost in his beard, and then leaves again. Maisy is happy with it and snoozes on the sofa as he entertains himself so I haven't stopped it!

> Well I got loads of toys today for them from Poundland

Empty pop bottles, yoghurt pots and card board boxes go down a storm :-) i bought a crinkly play tunnle for mine too and it was great to watch them :-)

> My boy loves them, he gets in with them now and play bows, realises they won't play with him other than getting lost in his beard, and then leaves again. Maisy is happy with it and snoozes on the sofa as he entertains himself so I haven't stopped it!

When we had our pups I was worried my flattie would be way too excitable around border terrier pups. I couldnt have been more wrong, she adored them and just lay down while they crawled all over her it was great :-)

My male keeps going into the whelping box and laying down with them enjoying their attention before falling asleep cuddled up to them. He is also cleaning up after them and reassuring them when they cry. My bitch is over the moon with this! Though she wont let my other bitch anywhere near!

wow your girl must love him and know hes not going to hurt them , ive never herd of the male cleaning up after pups lol

My lad loved getting in with the pups and checking their tail ends to see if they needed cleaning, I was very surprised to see this behaviour from a male dog, Mum supervised the first couple of times then left him to get on with it.

It was so funny when the pups went looking for his teats amongst his belly hair, he jumped about 3ft in the air and would leave so they could be fed by Mum. 

Mine still have no teeth so he rolls on his back, legs in the air showing everything off, lapping up the attention. He's a bit of a dimwit so it doesnt surpise me!

LOL Drover! What a little love!

Well Freds doesn't clean them, but he does lots of play bowing and earlier on he fell asleep with Maisy with them in the pool. At the moment he is SO desperate to play with them but knows when to stop.

Really looking forward to the doggy conga to the back door when they're 5 weeks and start house training!

I did put my girl in a babygro some of the time - partly so they would be a little hungry and willing to try the food, and mostly because they were such hulks even at 4 weeks that they could bring her to a standstill whether or not she wanted to be attacked by piranhas! :-D I only had her in one for a couple of hours once or twice a day though, never full time or overnight.

Henry LOVED Ellie's 1st litter, he would go in and snuggle with them, funny boy!

>He's a bit of a dimwit so it doesnt surpise me!

That really tickled me!!!   :-)  :-)

> they could bring her to a standstill whether or not she wanted to be attacked by piranhas!

That made me laugh - we've called ours the Ravenous Zombie Hoarde!!  Even from teeny weeny when they seem so cute - just a smell of mum and they descend and devour!

Our little delights are 4+1 weeks now and have ben eating for a week today. I gave them full fat goats milk just to get them used to lapping and they loved it, they are now eating raw chicken mince and raw lamb mince. Going to start them with tripe soon and then onto bones, which Im certain they will love :) And what a bonus, they have only walked through the food bowl twice in all that time!!! They are quite happy to take a paddle in the water bowl though, hehe!

Im quite jealous of everyone saying about their other dogs playing with them etc, my boy seems terrified. Although I must admit, we do laugh when he is being chased around the house by little balls of fluff! He isn't allowed on the sofa and he knows it but he wont walk past them, he will jump from sofa to sofa to get from one room to another!

You're so lucky, I wish mine would eat like that! So far they're on a very strict routine, I'm feeding at 9am, 12pm, 3pm, 6pm, and 8pm; however, I tend to push those times back or add a meal here and there if they're asleep when it's meal time, etc. They're loving scrambled eggs mixed in with their food, and raw mince in the afternoons. I've been advised to give rice pudding at night so started doing that in the evening before bed time.

Ran out of goats milk so I'm using Whelpi for the time being too.

I'm so worried that they won't be on solid kibble before they go to their new homes though! Mum is only feeding about once a day now, and she's in a lot of pain when she does, her tail curls, her hackles raise, she just stands there though so I call her away and express her milk in the evening whilst she's asleep.

>so I call her away and express her milk in the evening whilst she's asleep.

She won't dry up if you express the milk - you're stimulating production.

I had thought about that, but I was worried about mastitis; should I stop expressing it, or would it be too risky?

If the puppies take less then it will naturally dry up.

>so I call her away and express her milk in the evening whilst she's asleep.

No no no no no!!!   You are only encouraging her to make more milk.  Let her dry up naturally.  If she decides to feed pups less, milk production will sort itself without you doing a thing.

I agree that the less demand that the puppies make on the milk supply the quicker it will dry up naturally, the dam can usually know how to keep herself comfortable and wean the pups off her.

I found that the pups would sample their dams kibble which let me know they were ready to cope with theirs dry too as they were both being fed the same, by 8 weeks they were mainly on kibble with goats milk or water to drink with the occasional treat of cottage cheese,minced beef or scrambled egg a couple of times a week, they leave here at 12weeks on small breed puppy kibble 3 times a day and it is up to the new owners if they want to substitute a kibble meal with something else.

Thanks everyone; I'll stop expressing her then, I was just so worried she'd get sore.