Hi there!
My 9 and a half year old Golden Retriever (Sam) has been looking stiff and occasionally lame for the past couple of months. For the past week or two, his lameness has been more constant and clearly seems to be in his right back leg. I took him to the vet's last night, expecting them to say he's got arthritis as I have been dreading for a dog his age. The vet says she reckoned he'd done his cruciate ligaments... Oh boy, I didn't know what it meant until reading topics on this forum... I'm feeling quite deflated. They wanted to book him for an xray to confirm this and were talking about surgery... I asked if we could just start with a week of anti-inflammatory and rest, just in case... So here I am with my Metacam and a lively dog unable to be walked and I already feel bad about it, so if he had to go through the op and recovery process, I don't know how we'd cope! I also have a younger Golden Retriever (Tessa) who's very lively, if not boisterous and very attached to Sam, the thought of keeping them apart is breaking my heart... I'm also a bit unhappy about having to put Sam under a general anaesthetic and what I imagine is a long, slow and probably painful recovery (especially at his age)...
But I've seen some people here saying they didn't want to go through the surgery route and so managed the problem with just reduced exercise and pain relief... Is this a fair option for me to contemplate? Or is trying to "fix" him the right thing to do?
I'm confused and a little overwhelmed. Thank you for your advice.

Hi Sorry to hear your boy has cruciate problems. My old gal did hers about 8 weeks ago now. I choce not to go down the surgical route though others (Have a word with GRETS) have I know done so with good effect. For me it was a case of what was right for her. She is nearly 10 a good age for a Bernese and was not very energetic prior to her accident. She would walk a fair way at her own pace, but no longer into running around She had some stiffness in her front legs and was often lame one one leg or another and taking a glucosiamine suppliment for her joints. Some years ago she had some surgery to the same knee joint and it was very poor healing with tha wound breaking down and taking best part of 6 months to clear properly leaving some nasty scar tissue on the joint and no fur. She is fit and well medicaly but even so a GA is not to be entered into lightly. She  would have hated strict rest in a cage and the option was to fence her into a small room for some weeks. She is a plod about sort of girl and likes to sit under the tree in the garden and potter in and out of the  house all day. This would have had to stop while she recovered as I have 3 steps down to the patio and she would have had to be carried while she recovered. I weighed up my options, rest and pain relief, surgery or a brace for the leg. I discounted the surgery for various reasons and after looking into the brace option (Quite expensive but good by all accounts) also discounted this for a dog who all her life when faced with a bandage for whatever reason has declined to use the offending leg till the bandage was off...I could see £800 of leg brace sitting in a cupboard gathering dust! Took the rest/pain relief option. She had a head start as she was putting some weight through the leg so we stopped all waks  gave maximum doses of metacam and gave her 3 weeks to do her own thing around the house. Next we gradually started to take her out to the side of the house to a nioce flat grassy area so she could potter, she would do 50 yrd and sit down or turn round to go home. I have to say I wondered if she would ever improve at one point and re-considered surgery but the vet supported me and I held firm and it has paid off. Now we can manage a 1/2 hour walk round the park and even do a 3/4 hour country walk at her pace once or twice a week. She seems to be improving all the time and for a 70kg dog is now only on a 30kg dose of metacam daily. She is happy and not in pain. She dictates the walks and some days she looks at me and says "Not today thanks" but she is not distressed in any way and is as bouncy as ever even running (Of sorts) to greet me if I have been out.
Thats my side of it but you need to talk to someone who has taken a different route. Good luck.
Aileen

My lurcher was diagnosed with damaged cruciates at 9 years old just like yours. Though in his case, they didn't show up on x-ray, it was only an MRI that showed the problem.

He had TPLO surgery last year in August to repair the worst of the two and he has been as right as rain since then (the second one still holding well for now). He is 10.5 years old now but you would never know as he acts more like a 3-year old running and playing as he always did. Yes, the recovery was long, although after the first few days, I wouldn't say it was painful. I was just very careful with the rehab to make sure the operated leg was strong enough before letting him get back to normal exercise.

Cruciate repair is quite daunting, but most dogs really benefit from it, especially larger ones. :-) 

if you do go down the surgery route, don't opt for the MMP surgery, I was convinced by the surgeon this was the best op but it's been nothing but trouble........TPLO is the best op in my opinion and the recovery really isn't as bad as what it may seem :-)

Thanks guys.  If you don't mind me asking, what's the difference between the 2 types of op and what kind of issues did you have?
Sam's been ok with the Metacam, definitely relieved him but he seems to rely on his other hip more. He still cocks his leg and the lameness is very very slight so that most people might not even notice... That's why such a big op is also putting me off, as he doesn't seem THAT bad. But anyway, I'll see what the vet says on fri.

In my opinion, surgery is the ONLY option for a young dog such as yours. Having had 9 cruciate ruptures with my dogs over about 30 years, I can speak from too many experiences! My first Goldens ruptured their cruciates back in the late 70s when surgery was not even offered. They stayed lame for years, hobbling round the woods. In retrospect, it was cruel but I was not offered any alternative. My latest experience is my 8 yr old Golden who had a TPLO 4 weeks ago. I spoke to 2 extremely respected orthopaedic surgeons who advised that no amount of conservative management would put this right and leaving it (wait & see method) causes much more arthritis in the joint, chances tearing the menisci (cartiledge) in the joint and puts a strain on the other leg, possibly leading to the cruciate rupturing on that leg. Saffi was only very slightly lame and had only been lame for 10 days when I went for a referral. She was operated on that day and her ligament was almost 50% torn so the degree of lameness doesn't seem to indicate the degree of damage (perhaps just the dog's pain threshold.) 4 weeks on, she is almost sound, can have 5-10 minutes walk 2/3 times a day. They have to stay TOTALLY on a lead, even in the garden until the follow-up Xray at 8 weeks (used to be 6 when Elkie was done 3 yrs. ago) and then they get back to longer walks, probably 40 mins if you have built the dog up to that and can go on a normal walk with the others for the next 4 weeks. At 12 weeks post op, they pretty much get back to normal and supposedly can resume agility at that time. (Not sure I'd chance that though!) So, to sum up, the sooner you go for surgery (if that is what you decide) the quicker the 12 weeks is over and after that, you should not even know that there had been a problem. I wouldn't let the G.P.vet do it, though, only an orthopd who does the TPLO. Saffi's surgeon explained why he doesn't do the TTA but it is personal preference I guess. Look up both methods on Google.  PS I hate typing: exhausted now!

PS I am not negligent or over-exercising my dogs in case anyone thinks of accusing me. Cruciate injury is the most common cause of hindleg lameness in the dog and it just happens.

>Cruciate injury is the most common cause of hindleg lameness in the dog and it just happens.

Absolutely right.

Thank you. I was expecting the "What are you doing to your dogs?" type of remark! Those with knowledge will know how awful it is to have to put another dog (and yourself) through this.

> I'm also a bit unhappy about having to put Sam under a general anaesthetic

With the modern anaesthetics used today I feel that a 9 year old GR would be no riskier than any other dog.  (If you decide to go the surgery route.)

Me again. Just incidentally, Elkie was 11 1/2 when she had her TPLO and 14 when she had a suture repair 6 months ago. Both very nail-biting days for me but I had the pre-op bloods done first and she sailed through both ops.(Better than I did!) A 9 yr old Golden is barely middle aged.

>A 9 yr old Golden is barely middle aged.

Exactly!  :-)

Thank you G.Rets, that is the most useful advice/shared experience I've had so far. It really helps. I'm also very grateful to hear someone who has GRs that Sam isn't that old. I think I kind of write him off too soon because he's my first larger breed dog and people tend to say that he's getting on. And to be honest, you wouldn't think he is 9, he's lively and silly, and until recently, would run and swim like any younger dog (well, not quite like my younger girl, but then she's quite mental!).
Thankfully, I got pet insurance for them only last year after Sam cost me a bomb with an ear oedema which was huge and wouldn't heal easily. I will contact them and see how it works and how they can help. I guess now, I just need to get the xray done and then we'll know more. Do you mind me asking where abouts you are and who your surgeons were?

Thank you very much again.

An Xray will not show ligament damage but an experienced vet will be able to tell by looking and confirm by manipulation. I wouldn't go for an Xray in isolation as that would mean another anaesthetic. Mine go straight in for the op once it is confirmed and the vet Xrays at that point to assess the degree of tibia tilt. I trust implicitly Ian MacQueen in Devises or Harry Scott at Southern Counties Referrals near Ringwood. Both are marvellous surgeons but I'm sure there are others. What area are you? I would say up to an hour's drive would be acceptable to get the dog home afterwards. May be a bit too long in the car if you have to go further. Your vet should be able to recommend an orthopaedic specialist if the 2 I have mentioned are too far. I'm confident that Sam will resume swimming & running in 4 months. I wish you both the best of luck. ( Incidentally, TPLO costs about £3200)

Thank you. I'm taking Sam for a chat with the vet this morning. Unfortunately the two surgeons you recommend are too far away (I'm in Wolverhampton) and it would be a good 2 to 3 hour drive. I am keen to find the right vet though, if it can prevent unnecessary tests like the xray and of course, increase the chances of a full and quick recovery. Thankfully, the insurance should cover everything as I have a £5000 max cover with no time limit.
Thanks again.

Just wondering how Sam got on at the vets today?

Also wondering how you got on at the vets today.

I have had surgery on one of my dogs, admitedly not a Goldie, mine was a BC aged 12yrs, her's was not a gradual decline with the leg it was bang the leg had gone, swinging loose and she would not put it to the floor at all.

The x-ray showed the ligament was completely ruptured, she went for surgery a week after the x-ray. With modern day drugs a healthy dog of older age can withstand a GA.

She had 'extra capsular repair' they remove all traces of the cruciate and any damage that may have happened to the ends of each bone, then a very big degradable suture joins the joint together, the wound site which runs right down the front of the knee was stapled to create a very strong scar, this scar almost becomes an external cruciate, the vet thought that because of her age, breed and activity level that TPLO would not be right for her.

After surgery she had restricted lead exercise only for 6 weeks followed by 2 months of hydrotherapy, she is now back to an all singing all dancing mad Collie that doesn't even know she damaged her leg.

It cost £1500, I understand that TPLO can be £4000 sort of figure depending on your area.

We're very very happy with what our vet did with our girl.

Hi guys,
Well vet was no use really, I could not get a clear answer or advice from them at all. They gave me more Metacam given that Sam isn't lame anymore with it now, just sort of shifting his weight to the other side when not moving. I'm actually going to stop Metacam today as I suspect it's giving him bad diarrhoea.
S basically, I've found a referral orthopaedic surgeon in my area and probably going to go to see him next week to get a bit of sense at last.

If it's any consolation, my old boy (aged 11 at the time) went completely off his left back leg this time last year. X-rays and manipulation whilst 'under' showed nothing abnormal - but he still couldn't weight-bear. We had him on high doses of complementary pain-killers and rested him for a month. He was allowed lead-walks - walking, not trotting - out to the garden 5 times a day for toilet breaks and that was it.

After a month he was able to weight bear as long as we went slowly, and a month after that the only sign that anything had been wrong were his wasted muscles on that leg, which gradually built up again over the summer.

He's now going lame on his right back leg, so we're preparing to do the same again.

one of my girls damaged her CL due to injury. I did not have a choice, the repair had to be done. she was in severe pain. big op and most importantly very good aftercare is so important. and she was great afterwards.  I had a large crate that I could let one of the other dogs go in for a short time to keep her company, they seem to know what is wrong and dont want to romp around, they just cuddled into her. good luck.

I think speaking to the orthopaedic vet is a very good idea. No doubt you will need a referral from your vet. If you can't get this referral, I am sure that Ian Macqueen at Devises will speak to you on the phone and give his opinion even without a referral if you explain that you live too far away but he has been recommended. He is so helpful and could no doubt point you in the direction of the best ortho vet near to you. I'm sure he would do this for you.

Hi guys and happy new year to you all,
So I went to see this orthopaedic vet before xmas who confirmed a partial ligament tear. Due to the time of the year, we agreed to wait until after xmas to operate as it would have been too complicated and stressful for me to manage him whilst having my family over.
So Sam had his operation 2 days ago and came home last night. The vet did the TTA procedure. He also xrayed his hips to make sure everything was ok there. While operating, he found that another bit of ligament (can't remember the name) was damaged too and had to fix that as well. The swelling is not as bad as I anticipated. Sam seems a bit sore to be honest, just generally quite miserable, but he's eating. He was shaking and whimpering a bit last night but today he seems a little better.
They really were heavy handed with the shaving and took almost all of his coat off his back and half of his ribs as well as the entire leg (apart from a little sock??)... Do he's a pretty sorry sight.
Now the long slow road to recovery.

[IMG]http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t40/gaellekonak/P1070873.jpg[/IMG]

(he still hasn't had a poo since being back, and I suspect he just feels too uncomfortable and unsure how to "manage" the position so he's holding himself... you guys had similar experience?)

Blimey that's a lot of hair taken off!  From memory my boy went 5 days without a poo after his op. he was having sardines in oil, chicken, anything I could think of but I think the AB's he was on made him constipated.

Hi guys, well it's now been almost 3 months, Sam is doing pretty well. Still not quite right but I think it will get better eventually with time. I have a question though regarding hair regrowth on the shaven area: I have 2 bald areas on which the fur is not growing back, on the top of the hip and on the last rib. Everywhere else is now covered in undercoat-like down, but these areas still show bare skin. Makes him look like he's got some sort of skin disease!! By the way, the skin looks fine and he doesn't bother/lick it at all.
Anyone else experienced this? I reckon it might be pressure points he lies down on... But I HOPE it's eventually going to grow back!!!!!

Poor Sam, I can't believe how much coat they took off. I would have expected some growth by now, my girl had surgery three weeks ago and the coat is already about and inch long. Someone suggested getting a product off Doreen Paige to massage into the skin, but to be honest I didn't bother as you could see growth within a few days. I did increase her evening primrose oil, but not sure whether this has helped or not. The only other thing I can think of, is if you think it could be due to pressure, what about temporarily getting him to wear a lightweight jumper, something along the lines of the equafleece ones. It might just give him a little cushioning.

Glad that Sam is now well on the road to recovery. They shave the hair over the root of the tail as the pain relief is an epidural these days. It does look as though they have been a bit enthusiastic going up the back though. I would try rubbing a small amount of baby oil in the patches which are not yet growing ( and I do mean a small amount.) I expect it will soon grow back whatever you do.