Hi Guys,

Just wondering how you can teach a retrieve to a dog? Nando (6 month old GSD) is too young to be playing fetch constantly but in the park if I do throw a toy for him to chase, I have a lot of trouble getting him to come back when he has a toy, as outside the house he assumes toy being taken off him = fun ending. I don't know who/where he has picked this up from because I have always substituted his toys for a 'higher value' one or thrown it for him again but and continued play.

The problem is getting him to come back and drop the toy or give it up. He will stay about 5-10ft away from me and avoid getting anywhere near me. I've attempted to get low to the ground and hold out treats for him, but the more I lower down the more he thinks I'm just going to grab him. If I stay stood up and hold out the treats he isn't interested and stays away from me. Eventually I just end up walking away and that way he runs towards me (leaving his toy behind in case I grab it from him!)

I really don't have any idea about where he is getting this behaviour from as I have made a concious effort not to grab his collar when he comes back or grab his collar to get toys off him.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Josh

id be interested in any replies too,gwen is improving but its slow!

Some ideas for a dog that picks up article but won't return

keep dog on the lead;
keep distances short and owner run out with the dog;
reward dog as soon as the dog has come/been made to come by throwing the toy straight away again;
use two toys - one for the dog to pick up, the other as an incentive to return;
practise backing away exercises separately;
give the article straight back to the dog as soon as it has been recovered;
handler run off at an angle as soon as the dog has picked up the article.

BAck chain it
I start at 7 weeks sitting in a chair
Once the dog has been taught the "present" position
The dog learns to take hold of it first from my hands
Then pick it from my hands to the left and right of me and return to the present position
Then pick it up from the floor
Then further
Then walk around carrying it
And EVENTUALLY I throw things

This way the dog is always conditioned to come back

You get what you teach

You have taught your dog to play "keep away" ;)

What is the 'Present' position? Thanks for all the tips guys!

'Present' position is where the dog sits in front of you to give up the 'toy'.

Don't try to overdo the fetch game though, many would be gundogs have been put off by too much. Little and often is far better than too long at any one time.

How good is his recall? It's probably  good idea to get this right before worrying too much about his retrieve. Start in the house in a hallway so he can't do much other than return to you, it's probably far too exciting outside. Keep an eye out for useful training places outside--like a gap between a fence and a hedge, or a building and a fence. You can reinforce what you're doing with a clicker (must say I haven't tried that because my first dog is not in the slightest motivated by food) or a whistle.  I find the whistle is great, the dogs know they need to return when they hear the pips go (they usually but don't always get a reward), the whistle always sounds the same and it lasts a damn sight longer than your voice.

My 3 year old who is as giddy as they come was far too excited to bring the dummy back and much preferred repeated laps of honour. I have taught him some restraint by making sure he has a lot of hard exercise first (doesn't take too long running up and down these hills) and then doing exactly what you do--if he isn't going to cooperate, I walk away and pick up the dummy. He worked it out fairly quickly that if he doesn't bring it back the game's over. So although it really tests him to the limit he has just about got there...on a good day. Don't push your boy too hard or too early, it needs to stay fun for both of you.

Hello Josh
As everyone has their own success stories with their little ones, what works for one may not work for another but this is what i would suggest.
When mine are very young, I 'fun' throw with them...no pressure, light-hearted fun.   I sit in the middle of the floor and just play by throwing and really going over the top with the praise as they come back to me.

Personally, as they get older and when the retrieve becomes more prominent in their training (Gundogs requirement) I wouldn't contemplate doing any retrieving at all until I had them coming back to me.   My thought only (and probably totally wrong) but if they don't come back to you correctly and everytime they are called/whistled, I always reckoned that I would have no chance with a 'retrieve'.     So, I work on the recalls.  Big, big praise when they come back to you...masses of praise.    When you are out on a walk with them and they are off the lead, change direction and call them to you...when they come alongside you, masses of praise.  (You obviously know all this already, so I apologise if I am going OTT).    When they are coming back to you, take a couple of lightweight dummies or a nice soft toy - or several knotted socks put inside each other to produce a sausage shape.   As you walk along, throw the toy into the hedgerow (not a difficult place, just where they can get it easily but somewhere where they need to seek a little)....don't praise at this stage but use you recall instruction and then, when he brings it to you.....praise again.

If he drops it before he reaches you, you could try very gently placing it back in his mouth.  Don't make this a horrid experience, put it in gently and say "hold" firmly as you do so.  Keep repeating the word "hold" and whilst not actually holding the item, stroke under the chin (keep your hand close, in case they try to drop it) and whilst doing this, take just a couple of steps backwards, keeping the word "hold" as you do.   Then say your command for 'give'
- take the toy and praise.

Don't rush the process and don't expect it to happen quickly but just have patience and work at it.

As I say, this works each time for me.......others may disagree but I hope it's of some use.

Hi everyone,

Thanks very much for all your posts, as ever they are so helpful! I'm sorry this is such a late reply but I haven't been able to access Champdogs recently due to being really busy with uni work. I'm working hard with Nando as ever but the retrieve is getting worse- LOL! I'm not too bothered as it's not a formal thing, it's just something I thought would be a good way to play with him as a reward after training in the future.

His recall is awful at the minute. I think he is having a toddler/teenager phase as he is driving me nutty recently! His was always so/so but it was something we have been working on at his training sessions and he is getting better. At the minute, I think because of his age, it has gone back to stage-one, so I just take two tennis balls with me, I throw the first one and let him run about with it, and then when he won't come back with it, I throw the first one in the air and tease him with it so that he comes back. When he is on his way back I say 'Come' in an excited voice and move backwards slightly so that he'll follow me and then reward and make a big fuss. The bad re-call is probably mostly the reason for his bad retrieve.

It's not an ideal re-call but it works unless there are loads of other dogs for him to get distracted with! Any tips are helpful!

Josh

Don't know what sort of training club you are going to  but a GSD getting older , and not getting a recall is going to be a problem , especially in todays climate . You will get loads of differing advice on here ..but perhaps if we knew how you have been trained to do Heel , sit , and your recall , some of us can advise.

There is this site:  http://www.thegundogclub.co.uk/Reference/training/clickerretrieve.htm

My Lab and I found this to be tedious and too long and we gave up.  Perhaps because my dog is bred to retrieve and my problem was getting him to do it when and where I wanted, not that he didn't know how to do it at all.  I found something that worked much better for us, called North/South fetching, but I think it worked because my dog already wanted to fetch.

FWIW, I would not have gotten a retrieve out of my boy at six months old in a park filled with other distractions either.

                          and whilst doing this, take just a couple of steps backwards, keeping the word "hold" as you do.   Then say your command for 'give' - take the toy and praise.

Having come late to the party ...... Break it down even further into baby steps.  DO praise while the dog is still "holding" said item in his/her mouth.  Telling the dog "that's a good hold!" (once or several times) and petting/showing approval will let them know THAT is what you want.  The HOLD. 

Waiting to praise until after the "Give" command and execution will develop a habit of the dog spitting said item out as quickly as possible to get the praise as quickly as possible.  After all, you praised for "Give", THAT must be what you wanted!

I've got my youngster to the point when she will take the dumbell in her mouth, but she won't really grip it, only occasionally for a split second, which I do praise and give extra treats for. 99% of the time though she will drop it as long as I let go, and if I try to keep holding it while it's in her mouth, she just spits it out anyway. How do I progress from her taking it into her mouth then immediately dropping it, to even the shortest of holds?

I would put the treats away entirely when you work on the HOLD for a few weeks.  It sounds to me like she is spitting in anticipation of getting a treat.  After all, one cannot eat treats while holding something is one's mouth at the same time!  Get rid of it and you get a treat!  :D  

Have you tried clicker training?  Does she respond to that?  If she doesn't know The Clicker Drill, now is not the time to start with it BUT if she does, that would be a great substitute for a treat during HOLD training.  Just click and praise each time she closes her mouth over the object ..... she will know the treats are to come AFTER the session is over.  And then don't be stingey --- make her think she just hit the jackpot with treats!  Give her a dozen (tiny ones, of course)!  Or several different kinds in several different handsful.  Praising, praising, praising all the time you are doing it.  "Wow!  What a SMART dog you are!  You are SO wonderful!  I can't believe you are my dog --- you are SO SMART! etc., etc., etc."  GUSH !!!!  No such thing as overdoing it with dogs, they'll love you for it and try to get that same reaction again.  And again.  And again.

Yes, you have to get your hand off her mouth so she will hold it by herself.  Have you taught her to STAND and remain standing in place by pressing down on her back/shoulders/rump and encouraging her to STAND?  Same theory may work with your HOLD.  Perhaps she doesn't know you want her to GRIP it.  You might try your thumb under her jaw, your index finger over her snout and gently but firmly squeeze her mouth shut, telling her to HOLD.  Don't squeeze too firmly or you will close her air passages and that will panic her.

One of my dogs was obstinate about the HOLD until I "annoyed" him into keeping it in his mouth by pat-pat-patting him under the chin with the back of my hand.  He'd raise his mouth up and away from my hand at first --- but the motion is upward and at least he was holding it.  (For which I could praiseandreward.)  Try it on yourself and see what happens.  If your teeth are not closed, your patting hand begins to clack your molars together until you clench your mouth to stop it.

One other thing might work for you.  If your dog plays tug-of-war --- substitute the tug-of-war object for the dumbell.  You get her going in a good game of tug and then let her "win" the tug toy.  Guaranteed she will be gripping that!  AS SOON AS your hand lets go of the tug toy and she has it, tell her GOOD HOLD!  GOOD GIRL!  HOLD!  GOOD HOLD!  Give her a moment to let her realize what she is being praised for ..... and then grab the toy again and play some more.  No treats.  Don't require her to give up the tug toy.  Just play tug (and HOLD) with her.  Do that several times in a row and then indicate the game is over by 'standing down' (give a sigh, sit down beside her while you stroke her, sit down on a chair or bench and talk to her while she keeps her tug toy, just relax in some fashion) and telling her, "That was a good game, you did some good HOLDS, I am very proud of you, you are so smart, etc., etc."  She will probably drop the tug toy on her own, you can pick it up, put it AWAY, give her a drink, and then give her a good petting with praise.  Petting can be a reward too.

Josh I guess what you are really after is a play retrieve, rather than anything else.

He is at the stage where he is learning what he can and can't do, and playing keep away might be part of his fun and experimenting about his relationship with you, exploring his boundaries and so on, as much as the actual retrieve itself.

One of the first things I'd do is to teach him to enjoy having his collar taken - this should help. Do this at home - take his collar gently, treat with extra tasty food he doesn't usually get, and release. Repeat about 5 times a day twice a day. Eventually, take this out to the garden and then the park, but don't try it too early with too many distractions.

Re. the actual retrieve, you are doing the right thing swopping toys etc and understanding their value to him. The suggestions I'd make are to try playing on a long line for about 3 weeks, so you have some control. You can gradually drop the line and even cut it shorter and shorter over time. (Ensure he does not get accidentally jerked, you may like to use a harness with it).

If you buy the little book "Clicker training for dogs" by Karen Pryor, there is a fab photo sequence in it of training an Italian Greyhound to retrieve, it's really good and much better than trying to explain over the net - do give that a go too!

Lindsay
x

She's sometimes clicker trained so she knows the basics, I'll try that. Also like the patting chin idea. She doesn't do tuggy at all, so I'll try with clicker and patting. :-)