Hi, would really appreciate some ideas on what kind of surface/material to use please. We have a large plot of land but are thinking of fencing off part of it - nearest one of the back doors - and creating a large area where the dogs can be clean/play/mooch around in the winter. It's all grass at the moment and with nine dogs running round (we have a dog flap so they come and go at will) there is a lot of black mud which means a lot of muddy dogs and mud being tracked in. That part of land is on a slope so outdoor tiles (the slab sort) would probably not be suitable. We had a partial gravel area in the last house but you have to keep replacing it (when you pick up poo inevitably some stones get picked up with it), it tends to get pushed to the boundaries with our lot running round on it, and it still produced mess (maybe because rain etc just sits in it). Not too keen to have the astro-turf as it would be hideously expensive for the area we are thinking of and it would also smell with our number of dogs weeing/pooing on it. Many thanks for reading this.

Gravel/chips really are the cheapest way to make a large area clean for dogs. Yes they are annoying because they track all over the place and like you say they get picked up with poo. Also a lot of dogs won't run on them so no good for playing on.

Our local council often offers broken slabs free to take away when they are replacing pavements, but they are heavy to transport and lay and require a lot of preparation work.

Personally I don't like wood chips as they rot and the dogs may eat them.

Concreting, monoblocking etc are all far more expensive than astroturf.

What about just doing what you can afford with astroturf and maybe doing a little more each year? It doesn't smell any more than chips or concrete do with dogs peeing on them, and is as easy to clean. Failing that I reckon chips are your best bet.

We have a gravelled area and, while it's much cleaner than muddy grass at this time of year, it's still a bit grimy and the dogs don't like it much.  It partly depends what surface you lay the gravel on and what size you choose.  The other problem is that if it's on a slope you'll end up chasing it all back up the hill every day!

Astro turf would sit properly on uneven ground but if you intend to wash it regularly you'd need to put some good drainage in.

Have you considered concrete?  It's pretty ugly but might do the job more effectively than a loose covering.  You'd still need drainage though, on a slope...

As it is on a slope could you not tarmac it? It would need to be done professionally though, which would add to the cost.

My ex had a slope and he bought a cement mixer and cemented it. It caused problems when it was icy/snowy as the dogs would go racing down and slip, though I don't ttink any of them ever hurt themselves. It wasn't a large area and he eventually 'dug' it out and put steps there.

I was thinking about concrete or tarmac. OH thinks tarmac might be too hot for their feet in the summer but by then they would only be passing through this area into the paddock, or we could use another set of doors to let them out into the paddock so they don't need to go on the tarmac. Are concrete and tarmac expensive? Hadn't thought about them being slippy in the winter, don't know what we'd do to make the surface better grip (if it was just human you could salt it but not for dogs' feet). Fancy the idea of large concrete steps with a wooden edge to each step as that might slow them down a bit.

Tarmac is VERY expensive!!!!!
70 square meters(approximatly) would set you back abouit £10k!!!!!(laid)
Block paving about £90/meter squared.(laid)
Bog standard 10-20mm down gravel is about £50/ ton, which will do 13 square meters at approximatly 3" deep.
Membrane about at £1/ square meter, and easier for a 'layman' to do.
It all depends on the area. We did a dog run using 2'x2' council greys. Butt jointed.
Cost them about £2k, but they will never move, easy to wash down. never be dug up even by an avid digger (cant remeber the amount of slabs we used but remeber the back ache afterwards!!!!
If your husbands handy then that might be the way to go. But bare in mind they are heavy to lift and need 2 people to lay each slab ideally.
How large is the area and how much are you able to spend??? (if you want to tell me that, I wil be able to work out what you can and cant do )
I priced upo to professionally Artificial turf an area of just under 40 meters squared. it worked out just over £1k, where as we turfed it and it worked out at £250 so there is alot of difference in price!!!!!
Lea :) :)

If you are considering chips, try to source from a local quarry rather than a DIY/builders yard.  We just had 10 tonnes delivered (loose) of 20mm chips for £18 a tonne.  Dogs are loving running around it!

I've researched for months as to best surface for my back garden. With 6 collies running around & weeing on grass it became a mud bath!

The new garden was started today - I hope I have chosen well! In the end I've opted for chippings. I have a slight slope sompebbles were ruled out. Chippings are a bit more angular so we're not expecting so much movement. Gone for membrane, then hardcore then chippings. Normally you would have membrane on top of hardcore but due to slope stones would move. I did take my shoes & socks off to test the chippings would be kind to pads :-)

To pave with bog standard slabs would have been double the cost. Ruled out artificial grass due to high cost. Didn't want wood mulch as didn't think especially clean. I did consider quite seriously a surface like an equestrian menage.

Too early for verdict on what I've got but have high hopes :-)

What about that cut-up rubber stuff they use for horses in outdoor schooling enclosures? I've no idea how much it costs or if there may be welfare implications with using it for dogs but it must be fairly cheap, although probably not the best looking solution.

With my lot a grass run would soon be mud and mud means misery.

We put down a concrete base 31' x 25' with proper drainage which has been fantastic, I can power wash it every week and keep dry doing it cos it's got a roof as well. It took a lot of preparation and 2 huge ready mix concrete lorries plus a lot of manpower on the day but so worth it.

> What about that cut-up rubber stuff they use for horses in outdoor schooling enclosures

Judging by the state of my boots after I've been to Gleaeagles I don't think that rubber stuff is very clean, and I wouldn't want the dogs bringing it into the house. I can personally testify that it is fairly comfy to fall on though!

You can get rubber slabs, the sort that's used in kids play parks, I've been looking into them for our terrace but haven't found a supplier in scotland.

We need to do something about our back garden too, we have an area between the house & grass that is slabs, the grass was there raised slightly but the dogs have made the edges of the grass into small slopes and the mud is running off onto the slabs in this weather. I would like to put in an edging of some sort around the grass areas and then fill with chips but I worry about the dogs eating stones. One of them will chew and play with a stone if she finds one in the garden although I she gives it me no problem but I don't want this to become a habit with her. Do you think the novelty of all those stones would wear off?

We've declared our back garden a hazard zone, I swear the grass is actually rotting!  There is a permanent layer of water on the grass and it's running on to the concrete.  We have 1/3 of garden at the back door side fenced off and slabbed but this current bitch won't toilet on the slabs so I have come up with an idea.. please advise me if it will work or if I'm mad?

Local carpet shop sells artificial grass 6ft wide, so I was going to get about 2m of it x 6ft and place it on the concrete (with a poo from garden on top for scent) and lock up the garden side.  It's plastic grass or no grass!!  What do you think?

Wow, thanks for all the replies! Have had a rough measure up and the slopey area is 40ft x 30ft (and the slope itself is undulating). Then we have a 50ft x 13ft relatively level area. So in all, an L shape area with a slope away from the back door. Would consider artificial grass if it didn't smell too much. Would also love slabs (and have used some in the stable area which hubby got for £2 each, they are the very large heavy ones that the council lay in shopping centres) but don't know if they would lie properly on the slope area. Perhaps we could have the artificial grass on the slope (as long as it doesn't 'travel' with nine sets of collie paws running up and down it lol) and slabs for the rest? Had no idea tarmac was so expensive, don't like the mulch chips and the horse menage material would be a pain to spot poo/keep clean. Gravel at the last house cost about £24 per tonne, hadn't thought of chippings but worried that (a) it would disperse too much (and need topping up) and (b) wouldn't be too kind on active pads? Does anyone know how you go about finding someone who could quote for concreting it as well?

As long as Slabs are laid properly on a bed of sand and cement mix they will stay put (on top of 3" hardcore!!!!)
Gravel would be the cheapest. I put £50/ ton bulk bags, but as you would need about 16 ton then you could get bulk discount if tipped loose. Depending on where you are depends on the cost. xx
If I have my sums right :- Using approximate measurements of 3' = 1m
13 x10 = 133 meters squared
17x 4.5 = 76.5 meters squared
Total 210 meters squared.
A large area to do anything with.
If the flat area is 76.5 meters Square you would have to lay approximatly 212number  2'x 2'  Slabs!!!!!
Which would also mean digging out 6" and getting rid of the soil, importing 6 ton limestone, 3 ton Sharp Sand and about 15 bags cement to do the job properly!!!!
Your cheapest option would be gravel. You can get angular, flat, Round (I wouldnt use round as that moves alot!!!!) Flat gravel is nicest on the feet.
Chippings, unless you have a quarry around you that quarry them and can deliver loose will be alot mor expensive as mainly come in bulk bags or priced high because of transport costs (you cant get chippings around here for less than £50 a ton and that is at our price not retail price!!!!)
Price up for concrete, ring builders. Can a concrete mixer lorry get near it, well close enough to get a pipe round??? If not it will have to be hand mixed. And again you will have to dig out 6-8" remove soil. import limestone and concrete 4" on top. If anyone suggests just concreting ontop of the soil, donnot touch with a barge pole!!!!!
Also you vave to make sure it runs away from the house, otherwise you will get damp in the house.
HTH
Lea :) :)

Lea,
Would scalpings be any good/cheaper for a big area?
I agree foundations are key to a long lasting surface, before our concrete went down the dogs went out on a 20 year old crazy paved area laid on mud, trying to keep that clean drove me nutty.

Scalpings????? Are they the mashed up stuff from roads???
If so then its what we have on our drive way, but wouldnt a clue where to get them from or the cost (drive was put down before I moved in)
I know we trapes alot of stuff into the house from it.
Lea :) :)

After 2 days intensive work, I now have a wonderful back garden. It's not huge, but it doesn't have mud :D ... we have chippings/gravel. My 6 collies have had a wonderful time running around on it and there is no mud. No mud at all ....

I am very, very happy with my new back garden :D Gravel/chippings may not be everyone's ideal for landscaping but after looking at all, and I DO mean ALL, the possibilities, I think it is going to suit us just fine :-)

Sorry, made a mistake, the slabs were £25 for 10, so could do the level part with them perhaps? I defo don't want gravel as we've had that before and still get stained/dirty floors with the added inconvenience (and expense) of having to top it up again. Ours also didn't want to play on it and it did get pushed to the boundaries fairly quickly. I'm going to ring the Artificial Lawn Co. tomorrow as saw some of their stuff at Crufts (and bought a few small samples lol). They also do a 25% discount at the end of Crufts if you want to buy the stuff they lay in the big ring. Just a question of hanging on 'til March then but could get some slabs down in the meantime......

the artificial lawn company are very helpful. They will help you work out what you need, and cheapest way to do it.
And if you can lay turf you can lay that stuff. You just need strong people to help :) :)
Good Luck
Lea :) :)

I have that Artificial Lawn stuff from Crufts in my garden and absolutely love it,its well worth the cost.I have to say I don't find it smells at all and I only tend to disinfect it in the summer when its very dry,I find the rainwater keeps it clean enough. Its a fairly big area(about 50ft x  30ft)though and I only have 3 dogs.

Do you use sand in it as someone else was saying that it can be a nuisance in terms of being trekked into the house?

Spoke to A. Lawn Company and it would cost over £2,200 just to do the 40ft x 30ft area. Good job I was already sitting down lol.

> Do you use sand in it as someone else was saying that it can be a nuisance in terms of being trekked into the house?

No,there's no sand in it,I think its only the longer grass that needs sand.
Yes,it is expensive but I try and justify the cost by saying its saved me many many hours of cleaning over the years!

Can the artificial grass burn the feet when tearing around on it as one of mine only dose thing at flat out.

> Can the artificial grass burn the feet when tearing around on it as one of mine only dose thing at flat out.

Its quite soft so I can't see how it would,mine hasn't caused any problems anyway.

> Can the artificial grass burn the feet when tearing around on it as one of mine only dose thing at flat out

It's not like old fashioned (5-a-side) astro turf that was lethal to fall on, it really is like real grass. Mine race around flat out on it and have never had any sort of injury.

Where did you get yours?

from these guys...

http://www.asgoodasgrass.co.uk/

Which one out of there range did you get?

This one It's not cheap, and very heavy to lay, but it is very comfy and looks good :-)

The time has come for us to do something different with our 'doggy do' area.  We have an area which is fenced off in which they go - we have re-turfed the area twice and it lasts no time at all.  I do also have a yard but my oldies refuse to go on it!

Just had a long discussion with hubby about it and we're considering bark - does anyone have bark or used it and given up?  The lawn lies very wet in winter and cracks in summer therefore doesn't help with the grass growth.  I don't want gravel as I fear they may eat it.

With the hosepipe ban already in force in our area, I don't really want to do concrete or arficial due to the time involved in hosing down most days and where does the water/soilage run to unless you have a drainage system laid.

Comments most welcome...

My youngster likes to eat bark and wood, so I'd avoid that as a hazardous surface.

You'd also have to make sure that it wasn't cocoa bark for that reason, and I'd imagine you'd have to disinfect it just the same as any other surface to stop it smelling?

I'd give bark a wide berth as well. One of the places I train has bark as a surface and the number of dogs that spend their time crunching on it is incredible. I've got gravel and paving but would advise against the gravel, not so much with the eating, but because it seems to hold the smell.

I think with multi-dog households you're fighting a losing battle with most surfaces and my vote would be for paving or concrete.

Someone I know had a dog choke to death on a large lump of bark, they thought she was dozing in the sunshine and only found she was gone when they went to call her in for dinner. Horrible. I know it was a freak accident but I wouldn't risk bark. :-(

I think my lot would be likely to chew it too - looks like it's going to have to be concrete.....