I had a Flat Coated Retriever, show name was Darilans Drummer Boy, pet name Ranger. It is now nine years since he died, but he was such a handsome,beautiful dog, that I did'nt even try to replace him. He was 16 when he died. My question is, does that particular breeder still exist, I think his name was Mr Allen, from Rivelin in Sheffield. I would also like to know why Flat Coats now seem to be so thin. My brother has had two or three now and they don't seem to be built like Ranger was, he was more stocky, bigger boned, and his paws were big and more rounded than I've seen since. Having said all that, they are still my favourite breed, and I am now considering getting one again.
Can you offer any advice, for example, about The Flat Coat Rescue people, and anything else you may wish to share with me.

Regards, Graeme Simpson.

Hello Graeme

You might find this site useful Flatcoats

Pretty sure other folk will be along soon to give you more info

Melody :)

Hello Graeme,

If you would like to speak to someone about rehoming a rescue Flatcoat, then please contact Mr Brian Jones on 01530 834318. If you would like to speak to Mr Allen of Darillens then please leave your email address as I do not wish to put his telephone number on the board. Alternatively, Brian may give it to you.

I hope that helps a bit.

Monty's Mum

Flatcoats have changed in shape, they are rangier than they once were. I know the stockier bigger boned animals do not win in the show ring, and on the working side they FT people tell me they like a smaller faster dog to be able to compete with the labs. Having had the breed some twenty plus years, I went to a championship show with my daughter, who had not been to a show for many years, she asked me what we were looking for, I replied flatcoats. She said, "I thought so, but I haven't been able to find any, only some smallish thin black setters"! Some older established breeders have said the same as you that they are changing in shape, getting thinner and losing the correct fronts, which should have a good forechest, to quote "like the prow of a ship", with breadth and depth of chest to allow for heart room, qualities essential for a working dog.
Bob's Darillens dogs are still the older nice looking type, so you should have no problems getting that type of pup from him.

Polly - methinks you exaggerate a little!! ;-)

There are several kennels around who are proud of producing flatcoats to the breed standard of 'raciness without weediness'. Youngsters, even up to maybe three years old, will be racy to look at, and so they should be, as an over-topped youngster will sooner or later run into all sorts of joint problems.

I personally would fight shy of a line which produced dogs which looked mature at too young an age (an obvious pitfall with those producing for the showring - the temptation to overfeed is always there!!!)

When we changed to flatcoats from having generations of labs, I will admit that it took a long time for me to get 'my eye in' for a flatcoat youngster (reckon I might have cracked it now!!

Certainly, the raciness is an advantage in the field, but again, it's horses for courses, as a lot depends on the type of land you work your dogs on. Mine work a lot on the downs, where stamina and speed are a pre-requisite, but if you need a slower dog for close work, then a heavier type will maybe suit you better - this is how we have variation within the breed, and long may it be so, so that we have variation in the gene pool to draw upon as need be.

But we should never never be breeding black whippets, which a few have become, unfortunately, and we are all aware of.

Can put you in touch with Bob Allen if you e-mail me.

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

Jo,
I was talking about mature dogs and bitches, and yes when I was writing I was thinking of the whippet types which seem to be on the increase. Also I attended the flatcoat society working meeting held a while back, it was to determine how the flatcoat image and working ability could be improved. I am sure Terry Hargreaves will back me up as we were the two arguing with the FT people in our group, that flatcoats should be biddable quiet good sensible working dogs, while the FT people kept shouting at us that they should be bred smaller and selection should be made for faster dogs. As I pointed out at that time if the gamekeeper on one of my shoots says "Work the box" I know it means working my dogs by an unfenced drop of some 20 ft or so. I need a biddable dog I can work, that will stop on my command. When I asked the FT people in question would they be able to stop the "desirable" smaller faster dogs, they said "No probably not, but we would not work our dogs there" So which is the true working dog? The dog which can be used safely and sensibly on any shoot any where, or the small fast dogs which most ordinary shooting people would not be able to control, and therefore some areas of a shoot would not be covered or all shoots would only want FT handlers and dogs (plus I imagine a few vets on each shoot).
I would never expect a young dog to be overdone, but there are a number of young and sadly mature dogs who have poor fronts, viewed from the front they look as though "both legs come out the same hole" we used to call it a "pickle fork front". They do not have the breadth of chest desirable for a working dog. Also I have noticed the forechest is lacking on many seen today and depth of chest. There are a number of older breeders who are commenting on this change of shape. Nancy Laughton did say that the breed varied in size depending on the type of ground you would be working, (which I agree with), but type and balance should remain the same. I think I have confused you by the way I wrote my earlier message, as I meant to say that balance and type should be correct to the size of the dog, and the standard as our guide says breadth and depth of chest. It says raciness with out weediness, so from those two phrases, where do the "black whippets" or as my daughter called them "the smallish black setters" fit in? They don't really but we both know what the guest meant, and we can both assess a good dog, but that comes from experience.