I know that KC judges are not allowed to judge at unlicensed events, but does anyone know if there are any rules (or problems) with exhibiting at them?

I think in theory there is but don't know of any sanction ever being enforced. Can't understand why anyone would risk running such a show unless they want all the takings for themselves rather than a named charity. I know it costs £10 but I think that either includes insurance or makes it easer to get insurance.

I suspect those who dont believe in the KC, would not want a KC license??

Can find no information about the exhibitors at such a show nor any reason to think that a KC licence has any insurance except that at a licensed show the organisers have agreed to abide by the KC regulations which will or should offer some protection to those taking part and make getting of full public insurance easier.

I suspect those who dont believe in the KC,

LOL, you make it sound like Father Christmas - you have to believe they exist!

> Can't understand why anyone would risk running such a show unless they want all the takings for themselves rather than a named charity.

Or unless it was a breed show for a breed not recognised by the KC :-)

Yes there is actually such a rule -I came across it the other day (yesterday or the day before) when I was looking through the rule book to find the rule about having to inform the KC if a bitch has been spayed. Do you want me to dig it out and quote? I did think at the time that I wonder how they would police it because essentially that would rule out any KC reg'd dog being shown at any fun show not licensed as a Companion show. But then again in cats with the GCCF you absolutely MUST ask permission to show under another organisation (and it's only fairly recently -past ten years or so -that you have been allowed to at all) and people have been fined and/or banned for not doing so.

Can't understand why anyone would risk running such a show unless they want all the takings for themselves rather than a named charity.

RSPCA, local summer fetes etc, PDSA -their fun shows are all unlicensed by the KC. I woudl guess also plenty of working terrier and Lurcher shows. You can always tell by the name -if it is not called a Companion show it is not KC licensed.

That's right, they want all the money themselves.

Lots of them around here, mainly as the organisers can't be bothered with a KC License, as fun shows they cna organise and classify as they like. 

>Do you want me to dig it out and quote?

Marianne yes please that would be very helpful.

Rule F(1) 30 Disqualification and Forfeit of Awards.
a. A dog may be disqualified by the General Committee from any award, whether an objection has been lodged or not, if proved amongst other things to have been:
(1) Exhibited at an unrecognised Show.

It's in the same section as not being judged by a person who has handled or boarded the dog, not being handled by somebody banned by the KC, etc.

Thanks very much Marianne. That's not so bad then, there is no rule against exhibitors exhibiting at an unlicensed show?

The reason I'm asking is there will be a silken windhound show in the UK next year, licensed by the ISWS not the KC. Some silken owners show other breeds and some are even champ show judges. They won't be in any trouble then by exhibiting their silkens at it?

> I suspect those who dont believe in the KC,
>
> LOL, you make it sound like Father Christmas - you have to believe they exist!

I think you mis-understood, what I meant was those whom may be against the KC &/or pedigree dogs.

They won't be in any trouble then by exhibiting their silkens at it?

No I can't see any such a rule -and it must be something that happens reasonably frequently anyway with newly imported breeds before they are KC reg'd.

That's not so bad then, there is no rule against exhibitors exhibiting at an unlicensed show?

Thought the rule said that there could be - an exhibit could loose awards if they had been exhibited at an unlicensed show.

Problem would be for Slikens would be if the rule is enforced retrospectively. Why not licence the show with the KC.

> Thought the rule said that there could be - an exhibit could loose awards if they had been exhibited at an unlicensed show.

No silken will have any KC award to lose.

>Problem would be for Slikens would be if the rule is enforced retrospectively. Why not licence the show with the KC.

You can't. Silkens are not recognised by the KC.

As long as the exhibitors don't get in trouble with the other (KC reg) breeds they show then it's all ok.

> No I can't see any such a rule

Brilliant, thanks Marianne :-)

I am not sure they could enforce it and it does seem unreasonable to me. I believe the agility people fought a similar rule which prevented people entering and judging at un licenced agility shows and this was ruled to be unfair, hence there are now several agility organisations who run shows.
As for who gets the money I don't see what difference it makes if whether a show is licenced or not as only companion shows are run to raise money for charity. Other shows keep the money for their club the same as some unaffiliated shows. If you don't like what happens to the money don't enter.

You can't. Silkens are not recognised by the KC.

So you do not think they will ever by?

> So you do not think they will ever by?

Of course we hope they will be, in fact I'm sure they will be at some stage. It's not likely to be in the lifetime of the silkens that will be showing next year though so I don't think it will be an issue.

> Or unless it was a breed show for a breed not recognised by the KC :-)

Or a breed that is recognised but where a  new club has sprung up. The new club may apply to be recognised by the KC but will probably have to jump through a few hoops before becoming 'official'. That club might run its own shows before getting KC recognition. As they will be exempt from KC rules they can have non-standard classes if they want.

The KC gave up trying to say exhibitors must not attend such events some time ago. I think possibly it was after a run-in with one of the many GSD clubs, though can't be quite sure about that.

I don't think you can show at even these unlicensed shows unless there is a breed standard over here.  I've shown at them over the years, not recently, and there have been KC judges judging there!  Many of the usual local show people have been in attendance also.

When did the rule change re. showing at them as there was a ruling about 3 years ago that said that anyone could show there, I know it was slightly frowned upon.  I liked going to them as you could take younger dogs there and you could get your youngsters socialised.

I actually don't think it's right that the KC can state that anyone involved in KC shows can show there.  I've not been to one for about 2 years but there were many excellent dogs exhibited and some very well known people in attendance.

Plenty of KC reg Borders and Parsons are shown at working terrier shows.

My village gala has a Scruts show - usually there is only one or 2 classes so I assume its not a KC Compaion Show

A local dog sanctuary runs shows as well - no mention of the KC on the paperwork.

As 90% of KC registered dogs never attend a "proper" show I assume most owners are not aware of the KC regulations.....or care?

There used to be a similar rule about competing at unaffiliated agility shows but this was changed a few years ago and the KC have now ruled that dogs can compete at all agility shows if the owner so wishes so would assume that it would also apply to dog shows as well.