Please help me, my dog is driving me insane.

Every year when it starts to get colder and then all the way through the winter period my 5.5 year old castrated GSP urinates in the house. It drives me crazy. This year he has started all ready!  He usually only urinates during the night in the 'dog den' which is where he sleeps (not allowing access to the rest of the house) and goes during the day if i go out (again not allowing access to the rest of the house).

The dog den is a heated large brick built back porch area, for want of a better description.  There is a dog flap to a secure out side area so both of my dogs (6 year old weim bitch) have access to out side when ever they wish. 

As i mentioned above, urination occurs in the house during the night and usually in the dog den as this is where he is locked away.  During the winter if i allow him to sleep in the kitchen - but still have access to the dog den and dog flap to the out side area i inevitably come down stairs is to find piss in my kitchen or worse up the hall wall which then seeps into the carpets.

I know that this is sheer laziness of not wanting to go out in the cold or wet, and not a medical issue.

I woulds appreciate any helpful advice to stop this behaviour.

Thanks for reading.

You don't talk about an exercise regime, which I would think critical here.  What time is he walked last thing and first thing?  It appears he's used to messing inside and you'll have to start from basics - looking at why, I'm assuming he doesn't see the need, so you would need to take him and ensure that he wees outside, the more you take him out particularly last thing the less inclined he will be to mess I would think.  Lots of praise when he goes in the right place and not leaving him to his own devices for too long, particularly initially will pay dividends.

Inclined to agree PennGC we need to know what exercise this dog is getting and how often you take him out into the garden.

If you have made sure there is no medical problem the I would go right back to basics and treat the dog as if it were a puppy that needed house training but also make sure he is getting plenty of time exercising and enjoying your company.

What are you cleaning his pee up with? If not already avoid pine disinfectant and anything with ammonia in it as this will continue to entice him to pee in the same area.

A lot of dogs do not like the wet and cold of their gardens, but you have to make sure you call him out before bed, stand outside with him and keep telling him to go in an upbeat voice with whichever prompt word you use, if he is so bad I would be inclined to also get up from 4am to make him go out for a toilet break as-well until it sinks in that he has to go outside even when wet and cold.

Looks like he needs you there as he really does not fancy the outdoors and you'll unfortunately have to time when he is due and keep taking him out.
He's obviously a dog who enjoys his home comforts, hopefully your continued support at making him go out will eventually prompt him to go it alone, but he may well not if he is a soft pot, so you may have a loooong winter of supporting toilet training again :-( wishing the Spring and Summer along fast.

They have access to out side space to relieve them selves 24/7 365 days of the year.

Urinating in the house is only an issue during colder weather and only at night.

They have a 3 mile walk once a day at about 11 - 2.00 depending on what I'm doing, and then usually, around 09.00 and then again at 16.00 they go out 'up the lane' (i live on a public foot path with access to open fields, woods and a river). 

The issue only occurs during colder weather.

This is irrespective of walk length and times.  So even if I'm out beating from 8.00 - 17.00 he would still pee in the dog den if it were too cold to go out side.

Thanks 

I feel your pain, I have the same problem with my youngster, some major lapsing in her housetraining going on here. And her mother was the same the first couple of winters. Only thing I can suggest is going outside with him and making sure he has weed properly before leaving him, if he doesn't yet have a command for toileting then give him one and make sure he does his business. Tiresome I know!

Thanks Carrington.

The idea of a 4am waking fills me with dread as i already have a 2 year old who wakes me up at 2am and I'm due to give birth to my second child today!!!

I clean the area with hot soapy water made up of a biological washing liquid. He doesn't really tend to go in the same spot.  Its more like where he can be bothered to move to.

He is a complete soft pot.

My OH usually stands over him and makes him go for a wee just before we go to bed at night.  So short of either go back to clicker training his toiling behaviours or crating him at night I'm at a loss.

You poor thing you are going to have a lot on your plate with a baby due and a two year old, do you know what I would do then forget the 4am (don't want to kill you :-( ) whatever time you are up with the babes I would also use that time to let him out too as you are already awake and your dogs will wake up when you do stimulating toilet too, it must be very stressful to keep having to clean up after your GSP too.

At least he is good in the Spring, Summer, but it is back to basics in the cold weather looks like. Only trouble with the clicker use on a night-time it will really sound in the quiet neighbours if you have any will not appreciate that. If he is not made clean when you let him out again when up, would your hubby do a 4am let out to give you some rest? I know some husbands are dead to the world once they hit the pillow, but you can't cope with being up all the time given the circumstances or maybe hubby could clean up in the morning for you? :-)

I hope your GSP will get the message fingers crossed.

Most adult dogs can go through the night so a check up first and then perhaps you will have to get up to let him out once or twice during the night. Think perhaps shorter but more walks may help. May be some warm bedding in the den and keep him out of the kitchen.

Hi Jackie,

Thanks for your reply.  Im 100% certain that it's not a medical issue.  Im 100% sure its a behavioural issue due to not liking the cold and wet.  Three walks a day is all i can manage with a 2 year old and a soon to be newborn baby.

He has warm bedding in the den and was only allowed to sleep in the kitchen a few nights last winter when it was exceptionally cold.  But yes i completely agree - no sleeping in the kitchen for him this winter!

Carrington - your right my neighbours won't appreciate the sound of a clicker at 3am in the morning... so i won't be doing that.

I will start the toilet training from the beginning again perhaps.  I'll stop allowing the dogs free access to out side and introduce a command for weeing.  The three walks a day will give him plenty of opportunities to empty his bladder, plus access to out side at 6pm when my husband gets home from work, and then access to out side again just before we go to bed - and making sure he wees should be ample.

We are usually up between 6 - 7am so we can let him out again then.

If he continues to pee in the night then i will go and let him out at 2am when i get woken up with the baby or 2 year old.

If he continues to pee despite all of this i might have to crate him.

Thanks for your help.

Can see you could not manage more walks but perhaps if you could take him into the garden every hour or so during the evening you may remove the need. Accept that he may not like going outside but I can't understand where it all coming from and wonder if he is saving it up during the day only to find himself caught short. He perhaps does not like going out at any time even during the day when it is cold and wet so you can try making him by going with him.

One of mine will walk in the wet if it is a walk but if he pops out to relieve himself he never goes on the grass preferring the concrete in the winter months and lets face it I would not be too keen to squat on the wet grass either.

but I can't understand where it all coming from and wonder if he is saving it up during the day only to find himself caught short.

That is possible, but I know how it works with humans and puppies the moment we are awoken we have a need to go to the toilet. Happens to me every time. :-D I generally go to bed and don't get up again until morning but if something stirs me and even others in the rest of the household I can hear toilets flushing in the night, it is just when awake most animals are stimulated to toilet, even when there shouldn't be any there, it amazingly appears. :-D

Not sure that dogs work that way, between us we disturb our dogs at least 4 times in the night, they get up and we open the door but it is rare that they will go out.

Its an odd one thats for sure.  When he does wee in the dog den at night, its not like i come down to litres of urine, but there is too much to be a scent mark.  And when he does go out for his first we of the day there is always a lot of it - just as there would be if you hadn't gone at all during the night. 

The out side area the dogs have continued access to is all concrete.

I'd try crating him at night in the hopes he won't actually pee in his bed. 

Beginning to wonder if he is unable to help himself, may be he is unaware until it is too late. Does he go out OK during the day, do wonder if a course of testosterone may help, just a shot in the dark because if he is not aware and does not have full control he will not be able to time it. Incontinence in neutered males is not that common but I have had a dog that had a problem, no trouble during the day because he was in and out but at night would be leaky.

I think he knows what he's doing as it's only ever an issue if its cold.  It's really like he just can't be bothered to go out.  In the hight of winter if it is exceptionally cold out side and nice and warm inside he has been known to pee inside then too.  Mostly, however, it's is an issue at night when there are no humans about to make him think 'better go out or i'll get told off'

99.99% of the time he is fine in the day.  If he needs to wee he will let himself out through the dog flap or wait and pee on our walks. Its not like he saves it up until the evening.... he's pretty consistent with his day time toilet activities.

When he has peed in the dog den at night and you open the door in the morning to greet him, you know instantly, before you see the pee, that he's been inside. He knows it's wrong.

Its not a behaviour i have to contend with during the spring/summer or early autumn months.

he has never taken a dump in the house before (apart from initial puppy toilet training 5 years ago)

This is a cyclical issue that pretty much only EVER occurs during the night in winter months.

> He knows it's wrong

I don't agree.  Dogs don't pee in the house just to annoy us

>it's is an issue at night when there are no humans about to make him think 'better go out or i'll get told off'

Dogs are not able to reason like that.

Have a look here, might be worth a shot.

http://www.deesdogs.com/documents/marking%20_2.pdf

Some dogs just don't like the cold and wet and dark! I have a boy who will hold for more than 24 hours if its raining outside!
In your shoes, I would go back to crating at night and when you are out if that continues to be an issue. Then, when you are over the new baby stage, start retraining him to go outside. You are not going to have the time, energy or patience for training or cleaning up over the coming weeks or even months with a new baby about to arrive, so I think it is better to wait. A significant period of being crated at night should teach him to hold at night. An adult dog shouldn't really need to go wee at night if there are no medical issues. All the best with the new arrival!

Jean - i was not being literal!

Im am fully aware that my dog is not trying to annoy me by peeing in the house.  I know that he does not 'think' "I'm going to urinate in that corner because it will agitate my owner" and i don't believe i ever aid that he was peeing in the house to annoy me.

Of course he knows its wrong. Maybe once a gain not in the littoral sense of the word but he knows that it is a behaviour he has been trained away from doing  at very early age and that when ever he has been caught in the act he gets a correction.  Just as he knows that when he hears the 'STOP; command on the whistle it means don't move a muscle or the double pip it means 'quarter' and also in the same sense he knows he is not allowed to take food from my 2 year old or get up on the sofa with out being invited. When he does any of these unwanted behaviours you just have to look at him to see that he has done something that is 'wrong' you can see it in his body language. This is also true for when he urinates in the house. His body language changes which lets me know that he has done an unwanted behaviour.

Again i was not being literal when i wrote 'better go out or i will get told off'  of course he does not reason like that. But a human presence always stimulates pee out side mode. The only time he does not pee out side is when it is very cold at night and there is no immediate human presence. Or on very rare occasions in the day, but again always when it is very cold and there is no human presence

There have been some very kind people who have taken the time to respond to my post in a productive manner.  I welcome you to do the same or ask you respectfully to leave this post.

Thank you tohme and shivj

Diz,

Could something as simple as an outside light help, I know many of us have outside lights anyway and movement detecter lights, but if by chance you don't have any garden lights it may be worth trying as along with the cold and wet he may just not like going alone in the dark?

a very interesting article - thank you tohme

Morning Carrington - yes that a good idea.  Its quite light anyway from the cow shed but a security light might also help.

diz, just one thing to add.

Make sure your boy is completely emptying his bladder on his last trip before bed.  My pug boy has similar tendancies and although neutered, thinks he is all man and displays strong marking behaviour on walks and in the garden.  He too was having the odd accident overnight and I realised that he was just trying to be quick so he could get back to the warm and have his bedtime biscuit. 

I always supervise my lot going and now after this boy has been I tell him to go again, and again if nessessary.  If I stand and watch (the things we do!) I can tell the difference between him just stopping and him running out.

When he does have the now very rare accident, he too is just going a small amount, I think he is just releasing the pressure of a very full bladder which has become uncomfortable for him and keeping him awake.

Good luck with this and congrats on you soon to be new addition.
Mel

Thanks lunamoona - he is very much the type of dog that will cock his leg and pee a small amount just to get back into the warm again.  Something else to watch out for when sending him for his bed time wee.

> I welcome you to do the same or ask you respectfully to leave this post.

I can assure you that I was not trying to be unproductive diz.  I tend to be "to the point" and most people would know that.  I fully appreciate that you would not know my tone!  So many styles of writing, and, unfortunately the internet cannot give you the "tone."

I was trying to point out that dogs do not have human minds.  It is surprising how many people do tend to put human characteristics onto their canines.  As this is an unreasonable assumption, it is always worth pointing out for the benefit of other people reading these posts.  As the majority of dog owners have never studied dog behaviour. 

I had no way of knowing from the tone of your post whether or not you were up on the topic. Your style did not sound it (I obviously took you literally.)  As I do not know you, any more than you know me, I now realise that our different "styles" caused too much misunderstanding.

> When he does any of these unwanted behaviours you just have to look at him to see that he has done something that is 'wrong' you can see it in his body language. This is also true for when he urinates in the house. His body language changes which lets me know that he has done an unwanted behaviour.

The change in body-language is not because he has done an unwanted behaviour, it is a reaction to your body-language or your past behaviour that he links to the behaviour he has just done.

EG. My dog has been taught not to steal food from my plate, he his pretty good now, but on the odd occasion what I have is far to tempting for him to controll himself around and he'll nab it. Not one hint of appeasing body-language from him afterward or during, he does it very quickly so the plate can't be moved away from him, but he is pretty damn pleased with himself, he's got himself a high-value snack.
I saw some appeasing body-lunguage from my dog the other day, he looked very 'guillty', however, he had done nothing wrong, I was in huff with my boys and was telling them off, the dog was reacting to me & my behaviour.

Some dogs are far more sensitive/reactive to thier owners body-language/emotional state that others. When I was younger we had 2 dogs, a male & female. Several times on returning home we had found food had been stolen from the kitchen counter (one was an apple pie, glass dish smashed into a million pieces and each piece sucked clean ). We 'knew' was the male as he would scamper off and look 'guilty', the female was very matter-of-fact and greeted us like usual. One day we caught the femal ON the kitchen couter trying to steal food, the male was not even an acomplcie but he scamperd off & looked guilty, the female hopped off the counter like she didn't have a care in the world, no hint of 'guilt' about her and she was caught red-handed!

Don't confuse appeasing body-luanguage for the dog knowing it has done wrong, they really don't think like that, also, a dog displaying 'guilty' behaviour in a mutli-dog household is not necessarily the culprit of the unwanted behaviour.

ETA, cross-posted with Jean. LOL Jean, you are so much more concise than me :) Just 3 of your sentances summed up more than my entire half-novel of waffle!

diz,

It does sound as though he is a a real softy and seems to find rain aversive. The only thought I had was if there is anything that changes outside during these winter months? Are there certain noises, or the sounds of foxes that might worry him? You say there is too much urine for it to be marking but he might feel compelled to do concerted marking if something outside is bothering him. Have a really good think and just try to consider whether there is anything that changes at this time of year that, might in his head have formed a really strong association that compels him to perform canine rituals to ward off the 'devil at the door'?

You could try a crate ( he might feel safer too, if that is the issue) and if it is laziness then he should hold.

The final thought is that in some way the cold is affecting his urinary system. Obviously, this would not be normal but he might have a problem there- worth double-checking. You say his area is heated but what is the temperature? Although he's a hunting dog some short-haired breeds do seem to find the cold and rain incredibly aversive and refuse to go out for walks- I've met a few of these. Part of me wonders if a covered area outside might help.

The wraps may be worth a go too. Provided he is totally healthy it does seem as though the key to this is breaking his association with rain/cold/outside/on his own- as highly aversive.

Another thought to put in the pot, but are you positive this coincides only with the colder/wet weather and not with fireworks season? It sounds as if your dog is  a working gundog and so therefore probably not shy of such noises/scents/vibrations/light, but can you be sure of this?

Dogs can be quite context specific, so it is not impossible for a dog to be fine with a loud noise in one place, but not in another.

Lindsay
x

Good thought Lindsay. Dark, cold weather outside my house, going for a wee triggers loud scary noises and horrible flashing lights. Best stay in.