Hi all, I no you are all proberly sick of me posting about the same stuff now but i need to let of some steam aswell as some more valued advice :)
Just been having diss agreement with the BF again, to the point i am nearly intears due to frustration.
I had some great advice yesterday about using 'life rewards' as a way to teach my pup. And red an awsome article about 'predatory chasing' which really opened my eyes and have to say i understand things alot more now as I now understand why she does things (the running miles n miles to other dogs and switching off to me and treats and toys), basically because the feeling she gets inside from doing what she is doing is far greater then the feeling of a treat praise or play with a toy, and also a 'telling off' or something to that measure still does not come close to the feeling she has inside after doing what she does (chasing) !! So it had some great advice on how to cater more to her needs with a toy and to so hopefully eventually keep her attention onto me. And also some great recall advice. Well i no now what i have to do and how to understand it. Being a lurcher she naturally has the 'chase' instinct in her which i can never get rid of (i no that) but i can manage it and use it to my advantage.
Buttttt . . . . The BF. Does not believe a word of it, well does not even aknowledge what i am saying, wont even listen, so have not really shown him the web page or spoke properly to him about it. He says its not natural instinct (but then actually started saying about rabbit scents and she would be great at rabbiting because she will pick up scent and be off) and its just puppyness (which i suppose some of it may actually be puppyness) and that by 1year old she will grow out of it and be very obedient. Surely this maybe true to some extent as being so young she is going to be more energetic and excitable, but does it not depend on the personality of your dog (weather others of the same breed are different or not) to weather it will need training or not, and I think my girl really does need it. He started saying he has had lurchers befor and he worked both his (not by natural instinct though apparantly) and didnt have to do no training with them they were just perfect, again maybe so but again does it not depend on the different personalities as even if they are same breed (as same as a breed a lurcher can be) they still have different personalities, and even tried to explain as a lurcher is made up of a few breeds than different personalities and instincts come through and at different levels (does that make sence) and so his dogs even tho same type of dog as mine would have a different personality and instincts in his may not have been coming through as much as they do in mine!! But he just would not listen to me one little bit and was getting more and more heated. He then said he could train my dog to be 'perfectly' behaved in a couple of days (thought he didnt train his) and have her walking on pavements off lead (which i would not allow though so dont worry) and she will be perfect in fields and around other dogs etc. To which I replyed ok then you can have 3 days to train my dog and do all the walks with her and I wont do ay training with her or anything you can do it. To which he really got wound up for some reason and said 'no you can still walk her ill just take her for 5mins a day' !! Well then i said that would not work as then even if his 'training' was effective (which i doubt) then we would not no becasue two very different people walking her and doing things totally different would confuse her, it just would not work. And also tried to explain to him another piece of advice i red from that web page about a dog who controlles their relationship with you eg coming for a fuss and getting a fuss or coming with a toy and getting played with (which i am guilty off) and although you dont necessary have to limit the amount of love or attention you give your dog, it does have to be on your terms and not on the dogs, same with jumping up on MY sofa and having time on her own while im in the house, as this would help with her separation anxiety aswell as get her respecting me more out of the house as she wont then feel like she is controlling the walks but i am. But again he would not listen to a word. And he dont listen when she does come with a toy he will still grab it and play even if i ask him not to, i thought does this matter?? As i dont really care if she does not respect him, will me doing it still make mine and her relationship better even with him still doing it?/ Or do all members of the household have to obey ??
And also is he right, am i over reacting and taking things to far and will she just out grow it all as she gets older?? Or is all i have said correct??

She is your dog, lives with you so he can butt out.

Do not let him have her to train as it is very likely to be though intimidation and fear, and will undo and undermine her trust.

Oh dear, the only problem you have is trying to tell Mr know it all anything. He will disagree with you no matter what you say as it's all part of his sick attitude towards you. Listen to him and you'll end up with a dog that will do exactly what it wants to do when it wants to and you will end up with a dog that runs riot every chance it gets. As for letting him take YOUR dog out and "train" it NOOOOO. Tell him to take a hike!, sling his hook!, bog off! or any other phrase you can think of. I had trouble getting my one girl to do stays,she would break stays week after week costing me endless places in the cards. I know why she broke stays and I also knew it would take time to overcome it but my ex would tell me it was my fault because I was no good,that I should give up etc etc. It's what control freaks do,make you feel you cant do anything right,put you down at every opportunity,tell you you are stupid,know nothing and how THEY could do it so much better. You have a lurcher that's wired to chase,its up to you to train your dog so you maintain control. You both know and understand this,you know the effort you need to put in so you end up with a happy obedient dog, you know you can ask for advise both here and on other forums. You really don't need to give that miserable excuse of a man the time of day.

Thanks for replys. I no he noes deep down why she does what she does and that she needs training and if he did look and listen he would agree. But he dont want to agree for some reason its as if he wants the situation to stay like this for some reason. I no what i am saying is complete and utter sense, but how can you teach and train your dog when u have so much negative attitude around you and someone who just messes it up at any opurtunity?? shall i just carry on what i am doing and leave him to try and mess it up, will it still pay off with me and my pup the work i put in ??

You need to give this chap his marching orders as you are wasting your breath trying to educate him about anything as he knows it all.

All members of the household need to be singing from the same hymn sheet when it comes to dog training or the pup will become very confused as to what is expected of it making the process take much longer.

Good Luck

> You need to give this chap his marching orders as you are wasting your breath trying to educate him about anything as he knows it all.
>
> All members of the household need to be singing from the same hymn sheet when it comes to dog training or the pup will become very confused as to what is expected of it making the process take much longer.

Yep exactly to all the above.

I can still remember how my ex made me feel and I can tell you it's horrible that someone who claims to love you can be so nasty,manipulative and take such pleasure trying to crush your spirit.

Well BF don't stand for best friend!! Simple rule in our house when it comesto the dogs what I say goes!! I will listen to others and take on board issues but I will divise the action plan. And over the years we have had our disagreements but all as using my methods and with the dogs who come to stay.

Thing is it's the good ole hubby/wifey thing, you'll never win, just do what you need to do with your dog, ignore him, don't even bring it up. Not worth losing a partner over unless he's being cruel. My hubby was a little the same years ago but now takes the dogs out and shows off with them, gets me clients now instead. As proof is in the pudding, so he's eaten some humble pie over the years on lots of issues.

> Not worth losing a partner over unless he's being cruel.

But he is not a partner. As far as I am aware he has never spent the night or even had Sunday lunch with Lurcher Owner. He is a nasty bully who is constantly undermining her over anything and everything.

He is most definitely worth losing!

yes that is sadly true as i am coming more and more to see this :( I sadly dont think it is a case of humble pie being eaten :( glad things worked out for you tho :) I may suggest a few weeks apart so i can work with the pup, we can have a rest as a couple and i may after a few weeks feels differently and be happy by that point and not want him back or he may think that (which is fine with me the way i feel atm) !!!
But does all i say about the pup sound spot on to you guys, am i heading in the right direction??

I get the feeling this chap has an inkling he is losing his grasp on you so is seeking something or someone else to 'control'. He knows how much you love your dog so his master plan is, if he can win the dog over you will follow suit.
Seems to me your a clever girl and not daft enough to fall for this. Dogs aren't daft either. As my dad always says "Dogs are very good judges of character" You are everything to your dog, food, walks, comfort and security. And while ever she is receiving these from you it's unlikely she will look elsewhere.
As for reinforcing good recall you could try frying up some cheap sausages, slice them up and offer them to your dog while out on a walk. My lot won't come back for a cheap old biscuit, oh no they're not that daft they want the proper stuff! Whippets like Lurchers are led by their stomachs although i think that applies to most dogs doesn't it!
I think your doing a mighty fine job so don't let that weasel get you down! Chin up! :-)

A few weeks apart sounds a good idea to me for you to think what you want to do with your relationship and get on wth the business of traning your pup, your way.
I am no expert on any of this but what others have advised with training and what you are doing makes sense to me.
I have had many rows with my family as to how to train my dogs worse in the past they are at last beginning to do things my way regardless of if I am right or wrong thats not the issue.
Even simple things like shut the babygate I want the dogs in the kitchen seems an effort around here after 25 years of dogs you would think they would know better.
He is your dog I agree butt out bf !!
I am no expert on any of this but what others have advised with training and what you are doing makes sense to me.

How I wish you lived round the corner from me! It makes my blood boil when I hear of some nasty little man making someone feel utterly worthless just to make him feel big and tough. Don't suggest anything TELL him! Come on girl you can do it! Tell him where to shove himself then shut the door on him.

On a lighter note I think you will do well with your pup,you are doing your homework and you seem to understand the basics of raising a happy,obedient dog. You are not afraid to ask for advice so stop worrying. Relax and enjoy your puppy.

Lurchergirl, I'm not going to comment on your BF as others have given great advice.....so......you have to remember that her 'cross' will have an influence on her training and her character. Too much sight hound might have her less trainable, less biddable, more likely to be 'on the alert' for a chase or to run off - making your job of training her harder and more prolonged and very much an on going thing. Lurchers with a lot of collie are usually easier to train but have their own set of problems - needing constant 'brain' work, need to  be doing something, very very intelligent. You need her on a long line to stop her running off. Training needs to be little and often, they get bored so quickly. Do 2 or 3 sits, paws, fetch or whatever and always end on a positive - don't keep going on because she seems so good at it. Also be aware, that as she grows, you will probably have to use a muzzle ( especially if she is going to be big or very greyhoundy) to keep the peace with the public, most don't like greyhound types unmuzzled as some will go for small furries and small dogs do look like prey!
Many years ago, my first dog was a beautiful lurcher girl called Bracken. We got her at 4 months old with no skin on her pads and knees and thighs. She wouldn't walk on lead so they dragged her. When we picked her up, we never had a car but lived about 30 minutes away - she walked all the way with us on lead - through the playing fields and on grass verges and carried her to cross the roads. We started training her to sit, paw and NO! and to work. Her work training was with many of the old lurcher men and their dogs - she watched, had a little go herself and learned. We trained fetch and recall with an old rabbit skin sewn into a lure which became her high value 'treat' over the years. We trained her on a long line so no chance of running off. She became so well trained that I could walk her everywhere off lead, never ranging more than a few feet ahead - I only needed to click my fingers to have her at my side and only had to whistle her up, to have her stop whatever she was doing and look at me BUT I would slip her on lead if I saw a small dog or cat up ahead - her instinct would have been to chase and kill! She became the most fantastic family pet ( although house training seemed to take forever as my 1st daughter was being potty trained at the same time AND she would always rummage in the bin!!!! ) Two more daughters were added over the next few years - Bracken was their pillow, their playmate, their friend. She went to the bridge at nearly 15 years old - I swore I could never have another dog as she was just so perfect. It took me 10 years to let another dog into my life - not a lurcher though as OH doesn't like 'skinny' dogs!!! She was the best trained dog I'll ever have - my breed now are slightly 'independant thinkers' ;-)

> And he dont listen when she does come with a toy he will still grab it and play even if i ask him not to, i thought does this matter?? As i dont really care if she does not respect him, will me doing it still make mine and her relationship better even with him still doing it?/ Or do all members of the household have to obey ??
>

It is far easier for all people to be doing the same with pup, however she will soon come to realise how she can behave with different people. If you are consistent with her, she will know how you expect her to behave for you.

I've always had trouble getting my OH to stick to the rules with Buster, right from a pup. Buster has learnt that if he is allowed in the living room while we are all eating, he will not get food off me or my boys, but he'll sit staring at my OH as he knows he'll fall for the cute face and give him some food.
The same when it comes to when Buster fancies a dog-treat, he'll go and pester my OH untill he gives him a biccy, Bust doesn't even bother trying to pester me or the boys. They figure out quickly who they can treat as servants :)

It sounds like you are doing a lot of reading and learning about dog-behaviour - well done :)

> Not worth losing a partner over unless he's being cruel

It does seem a complete over-reaction to suggest dumping this guy for not sticking to the dog-training rules!
However, the OP has another thread running, that will shed some light on the response regarding the boy friend.

It looks like whatever you do he disagrees.
So if you let the dog sniff, then he would say dont. If you gave the dog a treat, he would say dont.
5 minutes a day. Can we all hire him to sort all of our dogs out if, in 3 days @5 minutes a day he can make a dog perfect???????
The fact that even 'trainers' that beat their dogs senseless take alot longer to get a dog to be so scared to do what the owner says!!!!
So he cant even use fear on the dog to get it to do whaqt he wants in 15 minutes over 3 days!!!!!
Sorry guys who have not read the other thread, but you really need to kick this guy into touch and start doing what is best for your dog!!!!!! YTour dog you and your child need to go forward WITHOUT negativity, If he is doing this with your dog, how much is he undermining you with your kid???????
Lea xxxxxx

> We trained fetch and recall with an old rabbit skin sewn into a lure which became her high value 'treat' over the years. We trained her on a long line so no chance of running off.

You can get these online.... http://www.tug-e-nuff.co.uk/real-c-22_29.html
and gundog shops also sell something similar.

The one thing I would add is that the training must be consistent, and here's why :)

If you have one rule, and your BF another, (say, over the toys and her asking to play) if he allows this and you do not, then what is happening is that she is learning that either one person will do as she wants, or possibly that if she is persistent then she gets what she wants. Whatever, it is very confusing and doesn't lead to a good training experience really.

He's not being fair to her.

By the way, I think it's good to teach dogs not to always pester, but if you have a polite dog who will go and settle down if she brings you a toy and you say "off you go" or similar, that is fine too. I basically allow my dog (who although I say it myself, is very well trained) to bring toys etc to me when I am on the sofa, and I will often play with her; but I have a cue I taught her which is "that's enough" and when I say that she knows that she won't be interacted with :)

It's very fair and she totally understands, but it also means we can interact with each other, which is what I like. She is quite strong minded but always accepts this cue because it's what she understands. She also does get enough play and fun generally in her life to not be worried or depressed if I don't always play at the moment she wants to indoors, does that make sense?

I would not bother to argue with your BF. I'd just sau that this is how you want to train your dog, you've taken advice from experts (if the site was Dogsecrets, it's actually from a retired police dog handler and instructor who is also a good behaviourist, and he does know what he is talking about).

If of course your BF has been one of these then perhaps he can comment, but if not perhaps he should just be quiet! ;)

Lindsay
x

hi, thanks again for all the advice given :)
When my bf comes over on the evening (vary rarely in the day) I understand that she has not seen her all day and so he likes to play with her and cuddle her, as he is a huge lurcher lover having had a couple in the past. I totally understand that and i am not unreasonable or hard hearted and so i want him to play with her. Although I dont want to myself as it gets to 9 10 or even 11 o clock as i have ad it all day plus a child so i want to relax and not have to keep an eye on the pup or worry aout the pup, does this sound reasonable?? But at the same time I get that he is excited to see her and that she is also excited to see him and so I dont mind him playing and cuddling for half hour or an hour but ON HIS TERMS, when i say to him dont stroke her or dont play with her its not because i dont want him to whixh is how he feels its becasue he has just sat down to say hello to me and she has come over to him shoving a toy in his face. ive never really had a chance to explain this to him but last night i did and he seemed to have gotten it.
I have seen such an improvement the past couple of days with the pup, she really is listening to me :) She still jumps up on my sofa when ever she feels like it (although not as much) and befor I would have to literally remove her from it to get her off all i have to do now is say 'down' and she does staright away, and actually even looks at me as soon as she jumps up (when im not on it) as if she noes what is coming :) still working with it but a massive improvement :) When i am on the sofa she will put on or two paws on it and pause as if she noes that I am about to say 'go and lie down' to which she does immediatly, on the other sofa and not her doggy bed, but i dont really mind as im not one who is too bothred about dogs on the furniture, I just wanted my seat and my time to myself. But again a massive improvement as hardly no crying or moping around now when told to 'go lie down' as she would before.  Even if she comes to get on the sofa and at that time i actually want her to come up for a cuddle i still send her away and then after a few mins of settling i may call her back for a cuddle so atleast it is on my terms :) I say to her 'in your box' when i want her to go in her crate and again she now does straight away, but does not sleep or lie in there longer than 15mins if the door is left open, she then comes out and onto my spair sofa. Agaian i dont mind this as she has listened to me and done as i said by going in there in the first place and stayed in there for a decent amount of time considering I have not long introduced it. Butttt ....... If i close the door on it while she is in there (some may think I have done this to soon with it) she settles for over an hour and actually sleeps. She did this for the first time yesterday. Before she would be fine with the door closed but not sleep just watch what is going on around her, which i dont mind becasue atleast I am getting my own time, but yesterday it got quite far into the day and there was quite abit going on in the house and she had not yet had a settle down or a sleep (which she usually does late morning time) and she seemed quite on edge and unsettles with so much movment from myself and my son so I put her in her crate and she fell to sleep straight away, she just needed somewhere she could feel settles as well as involved with us and she was fine :) massive breakthrew in my opinion :)
I have been practising in the house the 'come' command with her, with the helf of my 5year old son who i must say is brilliant at it :) we bot go in different rooms and say come between the both of us :) and then I had him not saying 'come' but other things and just jumping about as if playing and when she ran to him he would not give her a treat and so when i say 'come' she got a treat, and then when she next went to run to him (when i got him to distract her) I said come before she got to him and she turned right around and come to me :) thought this may help when out as it teaching her no matter what interest is going on you wont get anything from that but you will get something from me :) Does that sound good??
She can now aswell (all learnt in a few days) sit for dinner (which i never made her do before) and she will keep sitting even when i put the bowle down and stay there for a further few seconds untill i say 'go on then'. Same with going for a walk, she will sit at the door and not get out the sit position and charge forward when door is being opened or open, nor will she move even when i go to take a few steps out, she stays untill i say 'go onthen'. It took her no time at all to pick these few things up :)
I am sooo pleased as things are improveing and she seems more responsive to me now and she seems happyer, just got to keep working on the outdoors problems now, but i thought if i can get the indoors sorted to ahigh standard it may make things easyer for me to train when outdoors :)

Oh and sorry for my BAD spellings and letters missed off words etc i type to fast for my keyboard to handle, hope you can all understand what i write :)

One thing I have just picked up in your last post is the clear yes or know is she allowed on the sofa. By allowing her to go onto the other I feel is giving her mixed messages. Consistancy is the key so she is either allowed up or not.

We have a no sofa rule here although the youngest is always challenging it but she knows when i say down she goes to their bed

We sometimes ( very rarely)have invites onto the sofa or our bed but they are aware that they are asked rather than being gate crashers :-)

> We sometimes ( very rarely)have invites onto the sofa or our bed but they are aware that they are asked rather than being gate crashers :-)

> One thing I have just picked up in your last post is the clear yes or know is she allowed on the sofa. By allowing her to go onto the other I feel is giving her mixed messages. Consistancy is the key so she is either allowed up or not.
>
>

I think she see's the spair sofa as a doggy bed rather than a piece of human furniture. As like i said she basically leaves my sofa alone now, just challenging it occasionally but i put that down to the rule only being active for a few days and so she is just challenging it. As i said i am not one who is bothered about dogs on the furniture as such, I just wanted my sofa to myself (being a big dog it is to much for the both of us), and it may not be what others do or believe, and if it seemed to be confusing for the pup I would not be doing it but she seems to 'get it'. I just wanted to start of small as untill now she had the run and say so of the house, and hopefully in time the more work i do with getting her a bit more independent and not so much hung up on me and carry on the work with the crate than im hopeing she will soon start to love that abit more and that will become her favourite resting place. Some may think I am doing wrong but at the moment it is such a massive improvement to how it was before, just didnt want to push to much to soon :) She still does get offered up onto my sofa and bed occasionally but as i pointed out that is on my terms now and not hers and if she comes over even if i want a cuddle i still send her away so that she has not controlled the affection or the outcome that she wanted. :)

Hopefully in the near future, the other sofa will be fased out aswell, just wanted to start of slowly in order to get results instead of putting to much new things onto her :)

Talking about mixed messages -just thought I ought to point out that if you say "down" when you want her to get off the sofa, and "go and lay down" when you want her to do just that, this would be very confusing. Down is down, means lay down, don't use the same word for different situations -tell her down if she's already laying down on the sofa -what's she to do?! :) Use a different word like "off".

I like 'off' as it can be barked quickly and sharply.

> Talking about mixed messages -just thought I ought to point out that if you say "down" when you want her to get off the sofa, and "go and lay down" when you want her to do just that, this would be very confusing. Down is down, means lay down, don't use the same word for different situations -tell her down if she's already laying down on the sofa -what's she to do?! :-) Use a different word like "off".

Great, thank you :)