There is a story in the Daily Mail today about baillifs employed by NPower entering someone's home and using a chemical spray in the face of the owner's labrador (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2061075/npower-bailiffs-break-house-7am-raid-unpaid-gas-bill.html).  The man was not even in debt to NPower, it was an administrative blunder.  Even worse, one of the comments further down the page is from a woman who says that a meter reader chemically sprayed her dog in the face because he stuck his nose out of the cat flap when the meter reader rang the doorbell.  Another comment from someone who works at an energy company says that they are routinely equipped with these sprays.

I had no idea that this kind of thing was happening.  Surely it is illegal to enter someone's property and assault their dog?  I wonder how widespread this practice is?  I regularly shop around for the cheapest energy, but will never use NPower now.  But does anyone know if other companies employ this kind of practice?

That is appalling, what terrible tactics to use.  What sort of country are we living in when this is allowed to happen I hope NPower and the bailiff company are heavilly fined and the lovely dog has not suffered long term. 

> What sort of country are we living in when this is allowed to happen

The two incidents described do appear to have been heavy handed and, as it happens, erroneous but I suppose we really need to hear their side of things before making a judgement on the use of sprays generally. 
Perhaps there have been incidents involving dogs, perhaps an increase in such, that has led to them considering the safety of their employees and take this action.

I'm so proud of my  eldest son ! He phoned me today having read about this on line. He had  by then contacted Npower  and cancelled his contract with them and told them exactly how he felt about their 'customer service'

I glad i am not with npower, my girl hates sprays even the grooming spray, she tries  bite it as soon as i take it out the grooming bag,

Do we know what's in these sprays? Are there health indications for dogs..... or humans using them? Could they for instance, induce an asthma attack in anyone caught in their crossfire?

I glad i am not with npower, my girl hates sprays even the grooming spray

I would not imagine they are spraying all their customers dogs :)

Pet Abuse UK This is it: http://www.bite-back.net/

Bite-Back - Dog Deterrent / Repellent Spray
www.bite-back.net
BITE-BACK dog deterrent / repellent spray works in a unique way by creating a vapour cloud around the dogs face effectively masking the inhaled air with the smell and taste of the product. This deters the dog's natural impulse to bite. It becomes in a temporarily confused state lasting 10-20 minutes..Eyes: Irrigate immediately with copious amounts of clean water and get medical aid immediately.
Skin: Wash with soap and water
Inhalation: Remove patient to fresh air, keep warm & if unconscious turn onto
face and get medical aid immediately.
HEALTH EFFECTS
On eyes: Moderate irritation (Liquefied Gas)
On Skin: Mildly irritating.
By Inhalation: Mist and vapours may cause irritation to nose and
Respiratory tract. Vapours may cause headaches,
Dizziness and central nervous system depression
Chronic: Repeated and prolonged skin contact may lead to skin
Disorders
Comments: Low risk compound

Wow... So it doesn't actually say what are the active ingredients. Surely that must be disclosed for H&S reasons.

Only takes one human being to be hospitalized due to its use, and NPower will have a lot more to deal with than the wrong person's dog, trespass, claims resulting for distress, compensation, etc.

Who do they think they are, the flipping SAS????

Dawn raids and tear gas are the domain of the drug squad and terrorism lot....not the ruddy electricity meter readers. Since when did the utility companies have trained stormtroopers?

How would you suggest they protect their staff when disconnections have to be made?

I think the police have to be present when they have a court order to enter a property.

> I think the police have to be present when they have a court order to enter a property.

I think so too but they are just there to stop anyone obstructing the bailiffs aren't they?  A dangerous dog has to be dealt with whoever does it.  I dare say the police have their methods too.

Meter readers, postmen etc have a legal right to 'enter a property' (ie reach the front door) in safety, so they are issued with equipment to deal with any dogs which are excessively territorial. Owners have a duty of care to ensure that these people can do their job without fear of being bitten.

I don't think that would apply to a postman and a utility representative would have to make an agreed appointment to inspect on safety grounds.

I always refuse NPower entry to our gas meter as it is in the house with a prior appointment.

I would imagine your postman has been issued with something similar for his/her rounds. It seems to be standard practice nowadays.

I'm so proud of my  eldest son ! He phoned me today having read about this on line. He had  by then contacted Npower  and cancelled his contract with them and told them exactly how he felt about their 'customer service'

Good on him!!!!!

They now refuse to enter properties and tell the people they have to pick the post up from the sorting office which I think is fair if a dog is free to roam a property and is known to be aggressive.

Our postie doesn't bat an eyelid when he is met my our crew and people I know who have dogs that are looses tend to have post boxes on the outside of the property.

We are about to have the rest of our property secured off with some new six foot gates to the back and drive and will also put up a post box.

I had the opposite problem to not getting the post -the postman kept entering the front garden even if it was full of dogs. (My front garden is as big as the back so I have to use it as my dogs are in two groups.) With the postman not arriving the same time every day, sometimes it was simply impossible to NOT have the dogs out at the wrong time -they do need to pee. The dogs were fine but it worried me as you never know (plus the little ones could have sneaked under legs when the gate was opened, and got out), so we put a post box up on the gate and the postman was really happy with that. It also means he no longer has to ring the doorbell for parcels as most fit inside the box, so it saves him time. I think we do all have a huge responsibility to keep our dogs away from official visitors like the postman, but in the case in this thread, the person entered the house and that we can't plan for and shouldn't have to accept dogs possibly being injured as a result. It could have been a burglar. I'd say it was very foolhardy of the person anyway -what if there were more than one dog? The person could have got injured despite the spray.

> They now refuse to enter properties and tell the people they have to pick the post up from the sorting office which I think is fair if a dog is free to roam a property and is known to be aggressive.

That system is fine in those particular circumstances but clearly is not the solution when the property is needed to be entered to cut off a supply. 
In that instance we can either let people going about their perfectly legitimate duties reasonably protect themselves or we can just let the defaulters arm themselves up with guard dogs and carry on letting the rest of us pay for their utilities :).

> He had  by then contacted Npower  and cancelled his contract with them and told them exactly how he felt about their 'customer service'

Has he checked with his new chosen supplier that any bailiffs they employ might not similarly protect themselves?

No I agree and it has to be done the lawful way via a court order which they would have had plenty of warning letters and time to inform NPower that they were new occupiers. But on the other side NPower are not the best in sorting issues so there processes could be called into question sometimes , I know from experience when we had to rent when we had to move out as they made a huge cockup and it took me to threaten to take them to court that they sorted it out !

That system is fine in those particular circumstances but clearly is not the solution when the property is needed to be entered to cut off a supply. 

The solution is so easy -don't enter if nobody is at home bar a dog! Even if they have to break in, do it with people in the house. Like I said, they are setting themselves up for injury -I doubt very much anyone would be quick enough to spray more than one dog to 100 % prevent being bitten. Certain dogs would also not stop because of pain, they would rather get more aggressive and continue an attack even if they can't see properly.

OR don't enter unless they have the RSPCA with them.

> But on the other side NPower are not the best in sorting issues

Indeed, although reading the article where both parties are claiming different stories you really don't know what has happened in this instance, nor are bailiffs always fine upstanding specimens I am sure :) but I don't have any problems with the basic principle of protecting a legitimate work force against the dangers that dogs can sometimes present.  I would imagine employers have a positive obligation to do so.

> don't enter if nobody is at home bar a dog!

I am not sure that is always going to be enough.  Even if people do not use a dog as part of their resistance, although they may do, you also have to consider whether some people are ineffectual at keeping their dogs out the way.
I'm not sure that the RSPCA would or could turn up to every bailiffs entry even if it was always known that a dog was present.  I doubt they would get that past the charities commission :)

I would just like to point out that bailiffs cannot force entry into a property, they can enter peacefully if a window or door is unlocked, the only way they can FORCE entry is if they have already gained entry peacefully or been allowed in.
So either this man let them in previously or they had been allowed in by the previous occupier and they did not realise the occupier had changed.

I once had a similar thing where I had a visit from the bailiff who were looking for a previous occupier. They did not believe I wasnt this person (even when shown ID) and stated that they would force entry as they had previously done a wlaking posession for contents in the house, I explained that he was not getting inside as it was not my debt, he was very forceful and tried to put his foot in the doorway, it was only by explaining who I was and I would have him arrested and the appearance of my GSD at the doorway that he decided to leave.

So this issue will be down to the recovery company that N power use (but debts are then sold between companies) and not down to an N power employee themselves.

> Owners have a duty of care to ensure that these people can do their job without fear of being bitten.

I agree.
I also find it a little odd that the man was faced with hooded men, armed with crow-bars and did not think to keep his dog safe from them, he said he "thought they looked dangerous". I would never have dreamed that they would squirt something in my dogs face, but I would be pretty worried about them taking a swing at him with a crow-bar, so would make sure he was out of harms way.

> The solution is so easy -don't enter if nobody is at home bar a dog!

According to the article, they squirted the dog in order to gain entry, it does not read as if they had allready got into the house, it reads as if the dog was stopping them.

"After failing to gain access, the bailiffs shot chemical spray into the eyes of Matthew's labrador before breaking in through a back door."

While I am not a fan of bailiffs and thier bully-boy tactics (sadly, I've had the 'pleasure' of being visited by a few), I can see how people would deliberatley use thier dogs to try to stop bailiffs, so I expect they need some sort of defence agaisnt such situations.

>>  would just like to point out that bailiffs cannot force entry into a property, they can enter peacefully if a window or door is unlocked, the only way they can FORCE entry is if they have already gained entry peacefully or been allowed in

I think the law has changed in the last couple of years. We had a bailiffs letter turn up, the fine was relating to a car we'd sold years ago, so wasn't ours to pay. However the bailiffs were extremely aggressive when we phoned them to find out the background to the fine, their letter did state they could (and would) gain access to the property and seize goods to the value, and when we queried things with a quasi citizens advice, they did confirm this to be true (re access), as we too beleived they had to get in via an open door/window/ invitation. We mentioned the dogs, and again the citizens advice stated that they would just bring animal control with them when they forced the door in!

In the original story the dog was sprayed through the letter box and was a pet Lab.
In the words of the owner
'When they sprayed him, he just collapsed on the floor. he was throwing up and his eyes were watering. I thought he was going to die'


The householder did not have large guard dogs and was not preventing them from entering, they just had the wrong details and forced entry into the wrong house. I think I would commit murder if they did that to one of mine.

The person at the citizens advice didn't know what they were talking about as it is against the law for bailiffs to use any form of forceful entry or threatening behaviour and should always be reported.

>I think the law has changed in the last couple of years. We had a bailiffs letter turn up, the fine was relating to a car we'd sold years ago, so wasn't ours to pay. However the bailiffs were extremely aggressive when we phoned them to find out the background to the fine, their letter did state they could (and would) gain access to the property and seize goods to the value, and when we queried things with a quasi citizens advice, they did confirm this to be true (re access), as we too beleived they had to get in via an open door/window/ invitation. We mentioned the dogs, and again the citizens advice stated that they would just bring animal control with them when they forced the door in!

This is not correct. They are not allowed to make forceful entry, hence why when I told this bailiff who I was and what my profession was, they couldnt get away quick enough ;)

so would i,sillysue!