Hi, my 22 month old Goldie has a tendency to scuff her right hind foot whilst walking slowly to the point that her 2 middle nails on this foot are fairly worn. As soon as she goes forward into a trot or faster this stop and she has a normal action. She has never been lame stiff or shown any sign of pain and is otherwise a very fit and healthy girl. Our vet x-rayed her hips 2 weeks ago and her said that they looked fine. However she still has this almost lazy action. So she has been reffeard to an orthopaedic specialist to see if they can find the problem. They have informed us however that they need a £500 deposit and also the £190 deposit left on the day of her consultation. This is my problem! We have a good insurance with a high claim amount and the vets will do a direct claim, but we do not have that initial money to leave as a deposit.
Our girl is so important to us, but I don't know what to do. We have it a boot for her and started her in YUMOVE so do we see how this goes and in the meantime try and save the money up? It's so hard as she only does it when walking slowly! What would you do?

Thanks.

This is where having a special savings account for the dogs, even with insurance, comes in handy. I'd start saving now if I couldn't ask family if I couldn't borrow from them short-term.

What about trying to find another orthopedic vet that doesnt ask for so much money (or any) upfront?

I know its a different probelm but my friend's dog was recently diagnosed with Glaucoma and the initial referral vet was very expensive, so she asked our Vet to try and find somewhere cheaper, and between them, they managed to find one.  You may have to travel further but it might be worth asking.

Has the vet sent the x-rays off for scoring? It may be worth doing to get the "experts" eyes to look over them. There have been plenty of times vets have given an opinion on the plates only to have the experts say completely the opposite. I'd also say that dogs are very good at hiding pain, so she may be in some discomfort but just not showing outward signs.

I hope you manage  to get something sorted (((hugs)))

Talk to the specialist again about their insurance claims procedure and check with your insurance company.  If you can get written confirmation that the claim will be paid AND the vet gets their claims process started immediately (or early) you might find that the specialist will forego the deposit.  Presumably they ask for monies upfront due to previous problems with non payment...

With the same reassurance that the claim will be met you could also ask for a small loan or overdraft from your bank

In the meantime I'd also ask the vet to submit the xrays to the BVA for scoring.   There will be a fee to pay but providing the vet has met the criteria for identifying each hip on film it's quite an easy process to send them in and I do think the BVA score will be useful to you. 

Lke Pedlee I'd ask for the films to be sent to the BVA and get them scored, it's only just under £40 though there may be a problem of course as your dogs KC number won't be on the films.

You should try discussing this both with your vet and the insurance company. 
If you are going onto a referral I would not be inclined to pay out for scoring the hips just yet.  My gut feeling this is more likely to be neurological than orthopaedic and if your vet thinks the hips look fine I doubt they could be so sufficiently bad as to cause these symptoms.

Have you checked for a slipping knee cap.  Can be noticable when going into a trot/run or on uneven ground.

Thank you everyone for your replies. We are now going to get a second opinion from another vet practice so we will try to get our current vet to send over the x-rays which hopefully they will? We will then get them sent off for scoring. We always only ever saw it in her right hind, however I put a boot on her today and she picked it up normally, however she was then doing it with the other hind foot which we hadnt noticed before. It's very strange as even at a fast walk she dosent do it.

> If you can get written confirmation that the claim will be paid

My insurance company wouldn't give this, the most they would do is tell the vet that the policy was valid - they can't agree to pay until they have the completed claim form apparently.

I had the same problem as the OP with an orthopaedic referral. The specialist did originally want a hefty deposit but my vet gave them an excellent reference for me and they dropped it. I think it's normal procedure as the referral vet doesn't know you at all and you may not even have valid insurance. Ask your vet if they can speak to the specialist on your behalf and ensure them that you have never had a problem paying :-)

I remember when I had a dog with Lymphoma. My Vet said that her best chance was with Liverpool University Hospital. I telephoned them and of course needed a referral from my Vet so I haunted my Vet to get it faxed over quickly but still hadn't heard from the Hospital. I had to literally beg the Hospital (I was very emotional anyway over her diagnosis) and I unashamedly cried over the phone asking that they get her in quickly. The reason they hadn't telephoned.... I didn't have insurance. They didn't even have the decency to check how I stood financially!!! Needless to say I demanded to see someone and assured them that I would pay cash upfront before they carried out any procedure. So sad that my girl would not even be considered without insurance though!

> So she has been reffeard to an orthopaedic specialist to see if they can find the problem

Buster went lame as a pup. The vet did xrays, it turned out to be elbow displasia. The vet wanted the opinion of a specialist before confirming the diagnosis & prognosos. However, the vet arranged to send the specialist the xrays and to chat to him over the 'phone, this meant I only had to pay for the specialists report including diagosis and options (about £50). The vet added this to what I had to pay them, so they claimed that direct off the insurance. There was a possibility that the specialist would need to actually see Buster himself, but it turned out that the xrays were enough for him.
I found the same as you, despite being covered by insurance, the specialsit would have required paying up-front for any treatments/direct consultations (potential £2,500), then I could have claimed back on the insurance (which I would not have been able to afford to pay, but the vet said he could work something out for us).

Couldn't your vet send xrays to a specialist and get a report that way? It may mean the specialist has to see your dog, but it also may rule OUT the need to see the specialsit.

Buster scuffs his feet. The front ones are scuffed a lot as his elbows don't bend (I've taught him the command 'step' to make to pick his feet up higher when going up curbs). The rear ones are scuffed a bit with his 'lazy' walk (when going slow), but his xrays on his rear legs are fine.

ETA, My vet told me Busters hips looked bad on x-ray, the orthapedic specialist said they were fine.

Sadly my insurance cannot say anything for sure untill the claim is put in, and although I am sure they will
cover it all they cannot commit to a yes.

I find it so hard as this is why we have insurance and I know that they money will come back to us, but at present we do not have they £690 that they are asking for upfront. So we are going to a recommend vet for second opinion and get saving!

Has anyone else ever had these symptoms in their dog?

This is the reason I have a credit card which I use for dog stuff alone. I can pay the vet in full on the credit card, put in the claim and by the time the credit card is due to be paid the insurance company have usually settled the claim.

Unfortunately a friends goldie had these symptoms and was found to be suffering from CDRM (Chronic Degenerative Radiculomyelopathy) her dog was much older than yours though.  I believe this is more common in GSDs but is also known in goldies and Chesapeakes.  If you place your dog's affected paw upside down when he's standing does he quickly place it the right way up?  Your vet may well feel that your dog is too young to be showing signs of this condition.  I hope you get good news soon.

The vet did place the feet upside down and she did turn them straight back over as I had asked him about CDRM. It is a funny thing as she runs and bounces about completely normally it is almost just like she's lazy when having to walk!

I may have to apply for a credit card and have it just for doggy things as Pedlee suggested.

Well that's good to hear :-)

There are some good 0% credit card deals out there - especially the ones that give you over a year interest free!

>This is the reason I have a credit card which I use for dog stuff alone.

I wouldn't be without my doggie credit card. 

I spoke to my vet again yesterday and he is now looking round for a referral vet for that will not ask for a large deposit. It is causing a few tensions in doors between me and OH as I feel she really need this, but he feels as she runs etc as normal and is never stiff or lame that she is just lazy. Would really like to hear if anyone has ever had a dog who does this?

Thanks again.

It is perhaps happening just because she is pacing? (both legs on each side going forward at the same time). My Dobermann does the same at a slow walk, but never does the scuffing when trotting or running as his legs are then moving in the correct 'pattern'. In his case the scuffing happens because he is clipping the back foot on the front foot on the other side, if that makes sense.

Wow, I never knew about pacing, I will definitely look at the pattern of her walk later and see if she does "pace". Has your boy always moved liked that Zarah?

Yes, and his dad did too apparently!

There is a really good video showing the different gaits in a dog but I can't find it at the moment. If you do a Google sitesearch (at the bottom of the page) for "pacing" quite alot of posts come up. I'm sure the video was mentioned in one of them.

Not the one I was looking for but this video shows the walk, pace and trot (they are using the term amble rather than pace).

Another one here.

Went for a quick run in the park and she moved normally, as soon as we started the walk home she did in fact pace! She takes on a very slow almost sulky, lazy walk when back on lead on the way home. Can there be underlying causes or is it just down to movement?

Purely movement - they pace when they're going too fast to walk comfortably but not fast enough to trot.

If you read some of the earlier posts in the google sitesearch on pacing there are a number of times posters mention it being a symptom of hip dysplacia, others disagree. If possible I still think your best bet would be to get the x-ray plates sent off for scoring, at least you'll have a clear idea and it won't be a case of could it be this or could it be that. Whether that would mean you'd have to get plates re-taken I don't know, it depends on whether the first plates are identified with her microchip number.

I think that there can be underlying causes in some dogs (although that seems to depend on who you ask), but more often it's just down to movement. All dogs pace at times, although some go very quickly from a walk to a trot so you don't see it for long. Some dogs, like mine, will pace quite happily for miles unless sped up into a trot (I would have to jog to keep mine trotting though!). You can tell in the ring the dogs that tend to pace as the handlers have little 'tricks' to knock the dog slightly off balance which gets them into a trot such as tapping them under the chin, giving a gentle tug on the lead, or moving the dog in a tight circle before setting off.

The second video above shows the pacing gait really well.

Re: Insurance. When my collie had to go for some extensive dental treatment my vet spoke to my insurance company and then faxed over the full history, diagnosis and treatment that was to be carried out,the insurance company then wrote a letter to say that they could cover it. This was the only way the speialist would take a direct claim from my insurance.

Amble, haha, my little idiots can pace at a considerable speed! I have to stop and get them to start suddenly rather than building up slowly to get them to trot properly. :-)

>Not the one I was looking for but this video shows the walk, pace and trot (they are using the term amble rather than pace).

I remember my riding instructor many years ago saying make it a decisive change, don't let them just fall into a canter. I must admit that I owned a horse who did a wonderfully comfortable sort of shambling jog-trot. I should have stopped him but for hacking it was nice :)

Thank you everyone for all the feedback. We have an appointment at a referal vets on Friday who are not asking for a deposit and who are happy to do a direct claim. Will post on Friday with regards to how she gets on.

Good luck, I hope you get some answers!

It doesn't sound orthopaedic to me. It sounds more of a neurological problem as already suggested. Pacing is not related to H.D. My dog paces and has a hip score of 5:6 Pacing is a lazy way of walking, often when they are being walked slowly. When you speed them up, the pacing stops and they gait properly, that's why a dog being shown which is pacing is made to do a little jump then move faster.  Good luck with your referral. The proprioception test already done by your vet is promising that CDRM is not implicated. She would certainly be very young for this. I hope it is not a serious condition for her.

I also feel it may be neurological, I am getting so anxious about Friday, wish it was sooner. It is Fitzpatricks we are going to and have only heard brilliant things about them so fingers crossed pleased for Friday.

Hi, just thought I would give a update on our girl. The vets were sure there was a spinal problem as her hips are very good, and so they did an MRI scan on her and found nothing!! To say we are relieved is a understatement! The vets were very shocked! They have done a spinal tap which we will get the rests for next week however he feels they will be clear. So she is just a lazy so and so!! We are so happy!!

Excellent result. I am soo pleased for you and her. Maybe some swimming would help with muscling up and then she would be less "loose." 

Great news! If you can I'd also suggest hydrotherapy.

Wonderful news.

Thankyou! Just also wanted to say that the referal vets I really cannot rate highly enough, they were fantatic,  such a through examination and explanations of possible problems and outcomes.They were also so good with regards to people's personal situations(finances) and just made the whole thing calm which was brilliant!

Have neurological problems been ruled out? 

Hi, well good news is all blood test and spinal tap test came back normal which is great! There is a chance it is degenerative condition, so it is a case of updating the vets every 3 months and them seeing her if necessary. So for now she's just enjoying everything and being the fantastic girl she is!!