Hi All

As you all know my westie robbie has had skin problems over the past couple of years and he was quite bad after his booster jab last year which we don't know was linked to having his booster or not, but it seemed funny he got a lot worse within 2 days of having this, i did speak to the vet about it but he said there would be no link at all to the booster causing this and that it is imperative that he has his booster every year as all dogs need boostering, i have always agreed with this but after last year this put me right off as he was so poorly afterwards for quite a while.
I am now under a new homeopathic vet who said the best thing to do is to titre test robbie to see if his levels have dropped and then only booster what is low in his system but on speaking to my vet (his booster is due in december) he said they dont recommend titre testing as it works out so expensive and it is better just to booster them, i am now not sure which way to go, he has been fine skin wise since late February this year and not needed any further ab's or any treatment from my normal vet he has just been under the homeopathic vet and is doing very well at present so i am not keen to rock the boat but am concerned if he doesn't get boostered he may be running a high risk.
Anybody on here know more about titre testing i would be very grateful, the homeopathic vet said that dogs whose immune systems don't work properly shouldn't really be booster and that my vet should have told me this but he said that is rubbish and that all dogs should be boostered yearly!!!

Oh Hamish

You will receive replies from each end of the spectrum on this issue. It is an absolute minefield.

My opinion is that titre testing is a waste of money. Results can vary from week to week dependent on when the immune system was last stimulated.

It has been my personal decision, after reading and discussion with my own vet, not to yearly booster my dogs. I have not booster vaccinated them in over 12 years. All my dogs bar one would be classed as "veterans" having 5 dogs aged between 12 and 16.

Boosters are only meant to be given to dogs in good health. My vet has always said they would refuse to booster vaccinate my epileptic dog for example.

I know this won't have been much help in making your decision :(

I don't booster annually, although the current 'official' thinking (as detailed in the 2010 guidelines from the World Small Animal Vet. Ass.) are for everything every 3 years, and lepto every year.  Personally, I don't see it as necessary to booster annually and the only time mine are done is if I need to kennel them (once in the last 5 years).

I also certainly don't think any dog that is ill or with a compromised immune system (so prone to illness) should be boostered - a booster is a challenge to the immune system, if that's already under pressure then it's only going to suffer.

>My vet has always said they would refuse to booster vaccinate my epileptic dog for example.

That's interesting colliecrew.  I have a bitch here that had her first fit in October 2010 but did not start medication until they got more severe (around March of this year.)

When her booster was due in the summer, he didn't even question giving her the jab.  I may well question this decision next time she is due.  He can't have the argument that normally comes - that they get their annual health check at the same time as the jab.  Because she is on regular blood checks anyway for her epilepsy.  So I'm glad that you have posted your experience.

It doesn't matter how many years you've had dogs, CD is great for being able to swap experiences like this.

I've boostered every dog I've ever owned every year all their lives, including one with severe heart problems (the one that made it to 15) and one who was epileptic -interestingly with that one after years he has now STOPPED having fits and has been able to come off his medication. So in my personal experience boosters don't cause problems -BUT I do not have any dogs with skin problems. I have one dog with sensitive skin but as long as he is fed what I know he can cope with he's fine. Definitely an issue where people's opinions will be divided according to their own experiences.

im happy just to let my dogs have one booster after their puppy jabs,but i am concerned about lepto,i understand this must be done yearly,will my vets do a single vaccine,i mean,is it a common thing?I only ask because the receptionist hadnt a clue when i asked about titre testing,and had to ask the vet,then told me they do do it but that its very expensive.Could anyone explain why lepto needs to be done yearly,please?thanks in advance!

As previous postees have said, it can be down to your own prefences & my post wont really help regarding the Titre test but it sounds to me, like your present vet is a little more 'flexible' on their views.

We have never had boosters in 55 years of dog ownership(starting with my mother..cos I'm not that old..lol), never had any problems, have lived on a farm in the country, gone to dog shows & now live in a town..so open to allsorts of possible infections(possibly not the correct word, but it's late..lol). Perhaps that has just been our good fortune...perhaps not??!!

It's all down to personal choice, there's no definitive answer I'm afraid.
There are fact sheets from the WSAVA http://www.wsava.org/VGG1.htm go to the bottom of the page for links to pdf's, however the sceptic in me wonders at this statement.
The work of the VGG would not have been possible without the generous sponsorship of Intervet-Schering Plough Animal Health...very big pharmaceutics company.
Then this statement.
The VGG is a small expert academic panel that works entirely independent of industry in formulating its recommendations.

I don't get how on the one hand the study can be funded by a company that has a vested interest in vaccinations, but then be claimed to be " independent of industry ".

On the other side of the debate there's the BAHVS http://www.bahvs.com/nosodes.htm

For myself, I used to vaccinate every year, then titre tested, and now don't use anything, it's a risk, but a risk I'm comfortable with, but I don't live in an area that has a high dog population, I might feel differently if I lived in the city.

im happy just to let my dogs have one booster after their puppy jabs,but i am concerned about lepto,i understand this must be done yearly,will my vets do a single vaccine,i mean,is it a common thing?I only ask because the receptionist hadnt a clue when i asked about titre testing,and had to ask the vet,then told me they do do it but that its very expensive.Could anyone explain why lepto needs to be done yearly,please?thanks in advance!

The lepto jab is one of the most controversial, there are many strains of lepto, the inoculation covers only a few of them, so there's no guarantee that your dog will be protected if it happens to contract one of the strains not covered, it's also claimed the vaccine only lasts for approx 6 months, even though it's recommended as a yearly booster, there's also the matter of it being the most likely to cause an adverse reaction, it's also not considered to be a "core" vaccine. Dogs are most likely to come into contact with lepto from rat urine.
It's really down to you whether to vaccinate or not, nobody can say there's no risk not vaccinating, you need to weigh up the pros and cons for your particular circumstances.

> the inoculation covers only a few of them,

But they are the most common ones.

> it's also claimed the vaccine only lasts for approx 6 months

I've always tried to time it to coincide with summertime when the rat population is the highest.

> it's also not considered to be a "core" vaccine.

Why not?  I would say it is.  It's certainly recommended by the BVA.

> It's really down to you whether to vaccinate or not, nobody can say there's no risk not vaccinating, you need to weigh up the pros and cons for your particular circumstances.

I would agree with that although I would always take advise from your vet who has a better appreciation of your dogs medical history, Hamish75, although I appreciate you have complicated matters by using two vets and have therefore two professional opinions to grapple with :)

It appears to depend on where you live as to if your dog should get the lepto jab or not, although it seems to be given regardless of this guideline.
I think core vaccines are the ones that pose a significant threat to global health.

I stand corrected, Lepto is "non-core" in the US, but is "core" in the UK.

>i am concerned about lepto,i understand this must be done yearly,will my vets do a single vaccine,i mean,is it a common thing?

Yes; the lepto vaccine comes as a separate entity and is mixed with the DHP part by the vet when the full 3-yearly booster is given. In the two intervening years it's given separately.

>Could anyone explain why lepto needs to be done yearly,please?

Because leptospirosis is a bacterial infection, not a viral infection. Immunity against bacteria doesn't last as long as immunity against viruses.

>it's also claimed the vaccine only lasts for approx 6 months

Better 6 months protection than none, IMO.

>Dogs are most likely to come into contact with lepto from rat urine.

Which, bearing in mind that rats are everywhere in the UK, and ponds, lakes and waterways are especially likely to be contaminated, deminstrates the need to protection.

thankyou,explained nicely,i do like to understand properly!

Your new Homeopathic Vet is the one who has helped you make the biggest improvements for Robbie so that's the person that I'd be listening to if I were you.  Don't for get Homoeopathic Vets are "real" Vets who have done extra training, not just quacks who have read a book or two! :)

For me?  When I was a Veterinary Nurse 45 years ago, I was told then that all pups need vaccinating but boosters were Vets' pocket money and so that's what I did without any problems.  That was supported when I was involved with the clinical trials when Nobivac was being produced and was told by Glasgow Uni that the 2 pups that I'd had injected had titre levels so high that they wouldn't need a booster for the rest of their lives. 

Look up the drug manufacters website for the vaccination your dog has been given and see what they recommend.  Most these days will recommend a 3 year booster for most and lepto annually - which only lasts up to 6 months anyway!  How so many Vets can justify going against the manufacturers' guidance and giving a full booster annually never ceases to amaze me......

For various reasons including keeping records of dogs in my grooming parlour being affected after vaccination and boosters and going to a seminar where a homeopathic Vet and a Vet from a drug company were discussing vaccination, in 1996 I decided to stop puppy vaccinating too and used nosodes instead.  I am now starting to lose some of those dogs 14+ years old, who have never seen a Vet in their lives.......

Others will tell you that their dogs make old bones having been vaccinated and boosted every year.  There is no right and wrong way.  Just the way that you're comfortable with having done plenty of research and been guided by a Vet who isn't just interested in taking your money to make his car payments! :(

> a Vet who isn't just interested in taking your money to make his car payments!

I think that is really unjustified.  Many, if not most vets are dedicated animal lovers.  You could equally pass comment on vets who will take your money and offer you treatments that have absolutely no supporting evidence..

You know Jean - it's so, so difficult to know what to do for the best with our dogs isn't it! Whether we booster or not, we must recognise that each person here is doing what they feel is the best for their own dogs.

I work with 2 vets - my practice has 3 branches and my preferred vet is a 3 hour round trip away. However, over time, I have developed a really good relationship with a vet at a closer practice (now only a 2 hour round trip lol). My original vet is one who is more likely to speak against standard practice. It was with him that I made the decision not to booster and it was he who said he would never booster my dog with epilepsy. In addition, when discussing the rabies vaccine with him (my relative stays in Europe and we had considered a holiday with the dogs), he said he wouldn't consider offering him this vaccine. However, the newer vet would vaccinate this dog! That said, I am now questioning her slightly as this was the vet who prescribed one of my collies Immodium - grrrrr.

My head spins at times with making the right decisions for them!

I don't vaccinated yearly anymore except for lepto (which applies to all my dogs below). I do titres every three years now.

My oldest two dogs (one now at the Bridge) used to be boostered fully annually without any negative effects. Now that my oldest is 10 years old, he will only get lepto annually and then the rest three yearly titres and boosters only if necessary.

My 7-year old saluki has had titres over the last four years. He was always fully protected for all the diseases that are normally vaccinated, so hasn't needed any vaccinations for those years. He will now get titred every three years.

My 5-year old American cocker has only had puppy vaccinations and one booster and titres since then. The readings always came back as sufficiently protected so he hasn't needed any further vaccinations.

My 10-month old cocker spaniel will have titres next year when her first booster is due to see whether she actually needs the booster. She will then be titred every three years therafter.

Yes, titering is more expensive and even more so if vaccinations are needed in the end. But with two dogs that have autoimmune issues, I am keen to keep the risk for further problems as low as possible, so for me it's worth the extra money! It's not the vet's job to decide whether you want to spend more money for the titres or not, they should just do as you ask as it doesn't put the animal's welfare at risk.

> lepto vaccine

Just posted this link on another thread but I think it would be useful here too

> a Vet who isn't just interested in taking your money to make his car payments!<br />I think that is really unjustified.

I agree Stooge.  I trust my own vet implicitly.  He earns far less than the vets that I work with, and he drives a car older than mine!!

He is dedicated.

Thanks for all your replies, funnily enough theres a big article about this in your dog this month very interesting||||