Mum and pups had vet check last night, Mums temp is fine, in great condition so happy with that. She is drinking all the time, even gets excited everytime I fill up her bowl which is great, she's not eating as much as I thought she would, she isn't too keen on minced turkey but she has eaten minced heart and lung. She is more excited to eat chicken carcasses, something with a crunch! Vet said to give glucose today if she's still fussy eating which she is a bit. Is this right from an experienced breeders point of view? Obviously want to make sure she is getting enough of everything.

Next the pups, the weights go from 710g to 540g the second largest is 590g. They are all pretty even except the , fatty! One boy who is 540g has a slightly slower heartrate than the others, vet said its so slight it doesn't concern her. But I am worrying about it, naturally! He is the quieter one who will settle quick once you pick him up, the others seem to a bit more eager to get on the floor to Mum, and he along with a couple others, are often getting pushed out the way by fatty so have been making sure they get a nipple first and then set her on another so she doesn't bulldoze her way trying to find one. Am I right to be going crazy with worry or is this quite common? Could it mean he's not thriving like the others or is he unwell? Or could he just be a calmer more relaxed pup?? Having lost a pup before at 13 days we are terrified it will happen again. He is not the only pup to be at that weight. When he suckles he suckles well, he pulls and pushes at the nipples like the others. Just want someone to put my mind at rest really, or prepare me for the worst if need be. Mum is treating him like the others which is a positive sign.

hi marie just keep an eye on him ,if the vet isnt worried then try not to worry sounds like hes a calm pup :) do what your doing and make sure he gets a good feed i had 1 in a litter that we called bull dozer he went with the name dozer and he is still called this :0) IMO if a dog (after having pups and is nurseing) isnt on a good food ( i mean with everything thats needed) then i would give calcium supp ...good luck xx

Thank you, thats relaxed me slightly. Just such a worry isn't it! We are making sure he gets his fair share of milk.

Mum has eaten 1 and half chicken carcasses today and 1lb of lamb, (and a sausage roll, naughty me). It turns out she will only eat if she is eating right at my side, pratically on my feet actually! Lol!!

We have actually nicknamed that fatty Bulldozer too :)

I have always fed my new Mums holding the bowl for them in the whelping box as they usually will not come out long enough to eat.

Congrats on your litter, I'm no expert ( only ever had 3 litters) BUT if the vet had not mentioned the slow heart beat would you have been worried about this one? I like you would now be fretting but if he is feeding and content and more importantly mum isn't nosing him out then I would hope that he is just a chilled contented pup. My 12 yr old has a slow heart beat which was discovered as a pup, he is just very laid back, always has been always will  be- I mention it to the vet before they examine him as I can see the puzzled expression on their face!

Keep an eye on him, I think when they are up and about IF there is anything to be concerned about it will become more apparent.
All the best.

Just been watching him closely right now, along with the 2 other smaller ones, and they are all feeding nicely making the cute squeeky noises moaning when they are hungry and can't find Mum. Happy with them all at the minute. Just going to keep an eye on each individual one and make notes all the time. My house will be one big post it!!

She has only eaten once in her whelping room and that was the day they were born, have tried bringing food to her but she wasn't interested. She has shown this morning that she will eat as long as I am right there with her. We leave food down all the time just incase but it's never touched.

She isn't spending a lot of time in the whelp bed with the pups normally only when they cry she goes to feed them and stays there to clean them then will wander to the kitchen and lay on the stone floor, I think the reason is because she's quite warm, there is the heat pad in there constantly on and pups are warm enough as they don't always lay huddled. She has always been a people dog. She isn't neglecting them, as soon as she hears a noise she will run back in and nose them all but she doesn't lay with them. Is that ok? Or should I try to encourage her to lay with them more? Just dont want to stress her out if she and pups are ok.

I think I may even resort to buying tinned meat as its so smelly and leave that down with her all the time. Its just so weird and worrying seeing her refuse food at any time as she has never missed a meal!

Are you doing" early neurological stimulation" start at 3 days to 17 days, this shows you which pups cope better in different situations as well as helping to stimulate the brain, even with just my 3 pups one alwaays stood out from the rest and continued into adulthood as much more layed back.

In human babies their heart rates can vary without them being ill, if your pups was dangerously low then the vet would have asked to see him again so don't fret and enjoy them these weeks fly by.

Here is the link to the Early Neurological Stimulation

http://www.lowchensaustralia.com/breeding/ensp.htm

Shoot me down in flames if you like but  this  just seems to be a variation of the debunked 'Play Mozart To improve Your Child's Intelligence' .

I haven't been reading this thread in detail -too busy just having' normal' interaction with my puppies and out walking my  dogs in the few hours of daylight we have at the moment.

Rhodach, thank you for that. Have read about it and watched some videos etc and it all seems quick, simple and painfree to do which could possibly benefit the pups throughout their lives! Amazing! :)
I am very keen on making sure pups have the best start possible to their lives regarding socialisation etc, so this was a very interesting read.

I will start it tomorrow, thank you again :)

The little boy has been feeding great all day, he tends to lay on his back when he feeds, not sure if its because he feeds from the nipple nearest the floor and its just easier to get to that way, but they have all done great today and had some lovely cuddles with the boys who seem to be alot more relaxed being held than the girls.

> Shoot me down in flames if you like but  this  just seems to be a variation of the debunked 'Play Mozart To improve Your Child's Intelligence' .

Were you listening to Radio 4 this afternoon....?

> Were you listening to Radio 4 this afternoon....?

Me too :) 
Although I have to say I'm not going to risk it anyway.  We have a saying in our house, never buy a dog that's smarter than you :-D

Hahaha Stooge, all my dogs are smarter than me ;) doh!

Well, I read as far as the bit that they found tying down rats for 24 hours stressed them.  Why would you tie them down just to prove a point?

I'm afraid that all I do with my pups is teach them to play the piano before they leave home - they'll just have to work out the rest for themselves I'm afraid.

MariaB thanks for your comments, I have had good comments from new owners who included breeders as to how easily the pups settled into their new homes, one was taken to a junior school the day after leaving me and took greeting the children in her stride and she hadn't met small children before.

The vet also mentioned how eager they were to get out of the carrier even after they had been poked, prodded and vaccinated, I mentioned what I had done and said he was going to read up on it.

I am not pushing this to those who are not interested, just mentioned something I have found works.

Yep ! Whilst driving my old dogmobile  but I'd already heard a bit about the study.

No offence intended and Love Mozart.

We've got a few cellos around the place..hmmm !

hi marie if this was me id sit by the whelping bed and keep mum there as much as pos pups at this age need to be suckleing alot the more they suck the more milk she will get thru for them maybe it just way to hot for her so turn the room temp down abit (without makeing the pups cold) if shes with them alot she will keep them warm...i worry if mum dont want to be with pups so early on because of her milk not coming tho enough. x

I agree with White Lilly Mum should be with pups virtually all the time at this stage, try cooking up some chicken broth (just boil a chicken and take all the bones out once it's cool enough) and feed her in the whelping box. The whelping box should only have the heat lamp or heat pad warming one side so the bitch can get to a coolr part if neded. Good Luck.

We have a heat pad in the bed on the right and plenty of room around it, Im sat next to her bed all day and put my mattress there all night to make her feel as comfortable and safe as possible, it's when I pop to the loo or to make food she will follow me. So long as Im next to her bed she is more than happy to stay there. The minute I move she comes too. She is tending to them great and if they cry when she is not in the box she will run to them and they are always clean, she just doesn't like to be away from the family I think? The pups are plenty warm enough but I want her to be with them as much as possible, she wasn't keen to leave her last litter at all.
All pups are putting on weight nicely :)

My collie bitch didn't always want to be with her pups all the time and it was no problem at all because I was always there. She would feed and clean them then sometimes hop out of the box and lie beside it or a bit further away (going back in if anyone squeaked). She was having her usual exercise on our land three days after whelping and I think all this kept her sane. She raised 8 gorgeous pups and the adults milled around in the other part of the lounge, which was gated off from the dining room, from day 3 onwards. I guess it's all down to the individual bitch and what they want but she definitely wanted to be around family as she considers herself to be my right hand girl.

Marisa, this sounds a lot like she is now with them. Everytime one makes a noise she will go and nose them if they move for food she lays down if not she will walk out and lay either just outside or in the kitchen which is opposite the whelping room. And like you I am with them all the time.
Thankfully Mum is eating quite well today, a chicken back, lb of tripe, lb of heart & lung, 2 eggs and 100 ml of whelpi which she loves and is drinking loads still. She still isn't eating it with much excitement and I am having to 'egg her on' sometimes but she's eating more than before :)

her body will be tierd from pups feeding and her body makeing milk plus whelping takes alot out of them i dont worry to much for the 1st 7-10 days about how much they eat as long as they are drinking plenty...im sure she is just wanting to know were you are ,so if she is feeding them most of the time and your there too dont worry ,not all girls follow the BOTB lol x

>one was taken to a junior school the day after leaving me

..............I thought you were going to say "and settled in very well" :)

I have 10 day old pups here and since a day after the birth my bitch has been wanting to come on walks(and i have had to relent), and spending less and less time with them. It doesnt concern me as she is looking after them well, she just likes to go and lie on the cold tiled floor, I dont think its because she is too hot, i think she likes the cold feeling on her teats as she always lays on her front.

As for early neuroligical stimulation, I am doing it- the way I see it is that it is not envasive at all, its not going to do harm but it may benefit them. It only involves holding them in 3 different positions for 3 seconds, tickling their feet with a cotton bud and placing them on a cold damp towel for 3 seconds.

Like your girl, Marie, mine was right off her food for a good three weeks after whelping. Tried her with steak, raw chicken, fish (not bothered), roast chicken (loved this the best), Whelpi which she dranks lots of, scrambled egg etc. No way did she want dried food. I took note of what others said about maybe having a sore mouth due to cleaning up the pups and she was hand fed in the whelping box.

No they don't unfortunately but it would be so nice and very handy if they did stick to the rules of the book, lol!!

All these comments have relaxed me somewhat, she too will lay on her front on the kitchen stone floor, and I have been hand feeding her today. Have got a food diary for her just looked at it now and she has actually eaten quite a bit tonight :D phew! She is still drinking lots of fluids and she seems to like the whelpi a lot so will buy some more. Am checking her temp and nipples areas and its all ok. Hopefully she is just tired from looking after the babies, I know I am! :)

Drover, I thought the exact same about the early neurological stimulation, and done it with my lot today. Most of them cried and wriggled, a lot! And then they all huddled together after to have a moan about it, the boy who I had mentioned with the slightly slower heartrate was tolerant of it all, he only yawned when I held him head down and he settled back to sleep right away once finished :) am charting it to see if they get more tolerant of it.
I also read somewhere that the pups who drink from the middle nipples tend to become the more bossy vocal pups. Am charting that too ;)

An update,

Pups are 11 days old now and are suckling well and starting to open eyes :) they are beautiful!! Mum has certainly got her appetite back and is eating anything she gets, and the only time she leaves the pups is when she needs to go toilet. The pups are moving about alot now, and she just adores them! I think she must have just been exhausted and hot and maybe a little overwhelmed before, she is being the perfect mother now.

Pups are gaining weight and are all over 1kg now, there are bigger and smaller ones but they are all gaining and suckling really well.

Have been doing early neurological stimulation with them and now they don't even wake when you pick them up, they are so content with being held and cuddled and kissed. I cannot get enough of them :)

When does everyone stop sleeping in the whelp room? I was thinking 2/3 weeks but I dont want to leave them, lol!! I know that when they go to their new homes they are unlikely to be sleeping with their new owners so don't want to encourage that. Maybe 4 weeks? we have a camera on them and the monitor in the bedroom so can keep and eye on them and hear them all night long.

as they grow they have different needs so for me it was just easyer to stay with them till mum didnt want to feed them though the night for me it was around 5 week mark she would only feed 1once aday and that was last thing at night around 11 pm so then i started to go to bed and get up at 6am sometimes 5am if i hard them awake ,i think it best to play it by ear if your girl can get to her pups from 4weeks old and get away from them when shes had enough but pups cant get out LOL ,ive never been able to keep pups in a place and mum be able to get in and out without my help (large breed) then i have to be there to help x