Hi all,
We have just bught a Rhodesian Ridgeback puppy. We will be colleting her when she is 12 weeks old. I want to convert her to BARF straight away (she is currently on dry puppy food) and have read loads about it. My wife one the other hand is very usure, especialy when it comes to giving her chicken wings and necks. I have read that it is best to go 'cold turkey' with the switch over. Is this good advice?
My wife is understandably worried about choking on bones despite my assurances that the pup shouldn't as long as it's not cooked.
Can someone, other than me, cnvince her that it will be a good thing. She doesn't like the fact that not many vets recommend this diet.
Can someone recommend a vet in North Yorkshire that supports this feeding method?
I'm aking a lot but I believe it will be a good thing but don't know of anyone else that does feed BARF.
Thanks in advance

Hi Ian
Congratulations on your excellent choice of breed :)
Perhaps your wife would be happier if you bought a "ready made" BARF diet? There are a couple of producers. Natural Instincts in Surrey are Ridgie people, and there's another Ridgie owner just starting up, under the name of Wolf Tucker
Just a quick query - why are you waiting til 12 weeks before getting your puppy?
HTH
Carina

i think you are very sensible-lucky little pup!I swapped my last 2 puppies over to raw food(not actually barf) as soon as i had them with no problems at all,i wish you luck in persuading your wife.I think we are all a bit worried when we change to raw,but it was the best thing i ever did.Good luck with your puppy,what are you calling her?

I held back for months before switching to BARF. I had many concerns, a few selfish ones. Squeamishness for starters! I didn't eat any meat for a week after i started my lot on it. I just couldn't bare the thought. Now it doesn't bother me in the least! I was also thinking of the time it would take to measure out five separate dinners. Again, practice makes perfect. As for them eating chicken bones i was worried sick. i never left them unsupervised but i've had more bloomin near misses in the past with your average dog chew than a chicken wing, neck or back. When my bitch was pregnant last year she had a dog chew stuck in the roof of her mouth. I don't buy any of that rubbish any more. Never had any problems with raw chicken & bones. The acid in the dogs gut breaks down/dissolves the structure of the bone.
I think if i switched back to conventional foods for my dogs, they'd leave home!

I have a friend with 2 dogs, a yellow lab and a GR. She saw the condition of my dogs and decided to try the raw food that I use. She bought a box of chicken carcases and I gave her a couple of dozen bags of Raw-to-go meat.
She brought the meat back after a week with only a couple of bits eaten as she had read on a lab forum of someone who's dog had choked on raw chicken and died so she was not prepared to take the risk. She is normally a quite  sensible woman but was not prepared to see sense on this at all.

She doesn't like the fact that not many vets recommend this diet.

Just have a look in the vet's waiting room and see what they sell -there's the answer to that!   :)

My smallest adult dog weighs all of 2 kgs and even she manages bones just fine. The biggest weighs 35 kgs and no problems there either. One of the big advantages of feeding raw meat and bones is that the poo that comes out is smaller and dryer than when fed on commercial food, much easier to pick up!

I knew raw was a good thing, and I'd done all the research BUT I still found it much easier to change my adult dogs over once I'd watched a friends bitch chomping raw chicken portions.  It was as if all the science wasn't quite enough til I saw it for myself.  Daft eh!

Might be worth having a look on YouTube for something similar...

When we got our youngest dog I gave him wings almost immediately - be prepared for these to take longer than you'd expect though, it was 2 cup of tea job watching this pup (now a 32kg dog) making headway with his chicken wings.  He used to like wearing them as hats - with the joint perched near the top of his head and and the rest tempting fate (and 2 adults) up against the side of his puppy pen.  Incidentally a pen is a great place to start them off with bones, it keeps them contained so they can concentrate, safe from other dogs, and within sight for you to watch.  I added other bones when I knew he'd got the hang of wings but always stayed within sight, just in case

One thing worth bearing in mind is that kibble makes some dogs sleepy - works with all 3 of mine - and so an evening meal of kibble can be quite a good option to help manage the manic puppy zoomies that occur late evening.  Not exactly drugging your dog but...  ! :)

I have fed my 3 yr flattie on raw for 2 years and he is fabulous - both health and temperament. I have just switched my new 6 month border collie pup to raw with no problem at all. I started with chicken wings and raw mince which he loves. I absolutely agree - small, firm non-smelly poo is a great advantage! I use Prize Choice mince but have just started using Natural Instinct which is excellent, though expensive. Go for it!

I have Barfed my last two Giant Schnauzers [large breed like yours] from a pup and would not go back to kibble.
The difference in their development and muscle tone are very noticiable.
When I put my older girl on Barf, she got even more toned and her coat was shiny for the first time [she has a lot of grey in her coat so it's always looked a bit dull]
When I attended the puppy play group with my puppy earlier this year, I thought I was going to get slated on the day when they were talking about nutrition [you know, all that stuff how large breed puppies need a large breed food to develop properly..] , but for my surprise the vet nurse who did the talk said that if she could, she would Barf her German Shephards because she's seen the difference in her fellow breeders dogs.
Healthy, beautiful shiny coats, sparkling white teeth, no doggy breath, small poos, no excessive drinking,
no brainer.

Thanks everyone.
Convincing now complete! After almost convincing her she stumbled on this post and sussed me out. "That's you, you cheeky bugger" were her words, or words to that effect. LOL.
Carina, it's only my circumstances that are dictating we need to wait a few more weeks until we collect 'Kayla' (look the name up, it's got a nice meaning).
We're looking forward to bringing her home and feeding her properly. There is so much information all over the www that it gets a little confusing but we think we are there with our understanding now.
Once again, thanks again everyone for your words of encouragement.

If your wife is worried about the puppy choking on raw chicken wing bones then sadly the truth is that battery hens have very short lives, no exercise and a minimal diet to maintain health--their bones are too soft to support the weight of a 'normal' adult bird. She could put the whole thing through one of those heavy duty old fashioned  sausage mincer if the visuals are too gross. Also, BARF includes fruit and veg--nothing wrong with that! My dogs are on a mixed diet, probably 50/50 BARF--the BARF bits include fish, chicken wings, occasionally breast of lamb, eggs, carrots, mange tout, apple and they also like green pepper :). They get fed twice a day and this gets mixed with kibble, tripe, maybe mashed potato, pasta or rice if I've made some for us. Their coats look great, their digestion is way better and they are fascinated by any cooking going on in the kitchen in case there's something for them to try. Lovely.

> Their coats look great, their digestion is way better and they are fascinated by any cooking going on in the kitchen in case there's something for them to try.

They certainly do broaden their horizons once they get used to eating their veg. One of mine had a lightbulb moment this summer when I was out picking wild plums, and I had to hold him back from scoffing too many windfalls.

Just last week I was prepping veg for Sunday dinner and both dogs were watching me intently as I cut the stems off a bulb of fennel. It's not something the dogs had ever had before, but when I offered them the bits they were gobbled down with enthusiasm!

LOL, not BARF I know but when I brought the windfall apples in I made them into apple pancakes, the dogs go mad for them!

I bashed my 8 week olds chicken wings and frames with a meat cleaver to start with, but I don't think I'll bother next time.
Watching the pups eat meat is like watching a nature program. Everything comes so naturally to them, completely different from a dog that's been eating kibble for years, they know exactly what to do.

> Just last week I was prepping veg for Sunday dinner and both dogs were watching me intently as I cut the stems off a bulb of fennel. It's not something the dogs had ever had before, but when I offered them the bits they were gobbled down with enthusiasm

My dogs always come running when they hear the chopping board noise :) They'll eat any offcuts (I don't give them onion), but are always disappointed if I offer them a bit of mushroom - the only thing they really won't eat :) :)

Clever dogs because mushrooms are actually poisonous for dogs..

> mushrooms are actually poisonous for dogs

Some are - not 'standard' mushrooms as far as I know. Mine have eaten cooked mushrooms in casserole leftovers without any problem.

Sorry, you're right they are not ALL poisonous, but all fungi have the same alkaloids as broccoli, cabbage, shell fish etc so in big quantites even normal everyday mushrooms are not recommended as a part of the raw diet.
They seem to be on all the toxic for dogs lists, here's just one of them http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+1659&aid=1030

Cooking would remove the alkaloids, but if you're feeding a proper raw diet you wouldn't cook them.

> Some are - not 'standard' mushrooms as far as I know. Mine have eaten cooked mushrooms in casserole leftovers without any problem.

I'd agree with that, though I avoid leftovers with them in normally. I can't see that the usual mushrooms in very small quantities would be an issue.

Which brings me to something else... Out on a walk last week there were clumps of fungi growing on a playing field we go on. I think they were a type related to the Ink Caps (I applied to go on a Fungi Identification Course this week but got turned down as it was over-subscribed!). I noticed one of my dogs almost try to eat one, and called him off it. I have never fed him mushrooms but I wonder if the Plum Discovery has turned him into a forager... Perhaps I should change his surname to Fearnley-Whittingstall; Hugh for short?

Mine love foraging. Black berries are their absolut favourite, not to mention the neighbours tomatoes..
Isn't it funny that almos all the 'toxic for dogs' lists have chicken bones, raw eggs, raw fish and raw meat on them..maybe I should start feeding mine mushrooms cause I seem to be feeding them a lot of toxic stuff :)

> maybe I should start feeding mine mushrooms cause I seem to be feeding them a lot of toxic stuff :-)

Come the Apocalypse,I'm sure mine will be able to look after himself...! as long as there are carrot fields he can dig up. Haven't tried him on the local speciality, Mangold/Mangle Wurzels, they don't seem to be grown much any more but as they are just a root veg like a swede/turnip hybrid, I don't think he'd turn up his nose.

We have a load of inkcaps in the front garden this year for the first time. It seems a good year for fungi :)

Hi Ian

I called one of my pups from my first ever litter (back in 1987!!)  Kela - I'd never heard the name before, just got it from part of my affix. A couple of her daughters and subsequent grand daughters and great grand daughters have also been given the name :)

Enjoy your baby when you get her :) Is she from a breeder who shows? I'll know them if they do :)

Is there anywhere you can by a complete raw diet so to speak?

Try Natural Instincts - nice people and really good food :)

Natural Instinct is very expensive though. Just an example their chicken carcasses are £1.28/kg, I pay 76p/kg, a big difference!
I'm Barfing 3 large dogs and although money is not tight, I still wouldn't pay that much more. If you add p&p it'll be double.
Most butchers are very helpful and glad to get rid off their bones etc free. You just need to shop around a bit.

Hi. Just want to add my exprience in this subject. I posted a thread just like yours a while back with my 6month lurcher pup. I had never heard of a raw or barf diet before, and i had some great advice on here of people that really do no what they are talking about. I was the same as your wife, abit squimish at the idea and worried as i had never heard of it and knew no1 who did it and the vet didnt support it. But i must say after my post on here my views changed. But saying that i did decide now was not the time to change my girls diet as i have had real probs in the past with her being a 'fussy' eater and it was very stressfull time. But then found a great dog food for her, a healthy and top quality food (so have no health concerns with her) and she loved it and has been fine ever sinse so did not want to change something that was now working and what she was happy with. But i am now totally 'for' a raw diet and actually now feed my cats on it, (not sure if this is good but i thought whats good for a dog must be good for a cat and they love it) so i no if in the future i have to change the pup to it or decide to for other reasons i am used to it and so wont be a big shock on my behalf. You could try (someone adviced this to me) starting your pup of slowly not for the pups benefit but for your own and your wifes benefit, to see what you think, start by just offering raw as a special treat to begin with, or if you did want the pup on a raw diet straight away you could just not give wings or bones with it, if you or your wife prefers, im not an expert but im sure a BARF or raw diet does not have to contain bones and wings, im sure it is just as good with out :)

Sorry to contridict but it is necessary for all raw diets to contain bones , muscle meat and offal. Bones must be uncooked but a deffinite part of the diet to get the balance right. The nearer to the orginal the better, mince is ok but not as good as unminced as the dog misseds out on the advantage of muscle development form chewing and teeth cleaning by a natural method. If you want to give raw as part of the dogs diet to beging with without the bones will be ok but not if you are full raw/barf
Yes raw is fine for cats and better for them than the usual manufactured food. Cats are often more difficult to convert

> Sorry to contridict but it is necessary for all raw diets to contain bones , muscle meat and offal. Bones must be uncooked but a deffinite part of the diet to get the balance right.

Im still learning and did not no that :) Although would you say a good idea at first just to give as a treat to the dog to see how you all get on before you introduce it to the main meal. I do not no and although i am not feeding raw I still like to ask questions about all subjects just for either future reference or so i can give advice on it myself if someone comes to me :)
My cats are very greedy and literally will eat anything so switching them was not a problem :) I thought it was a good idea when i woke up one morning to find they had got into the fridge and had ate nearly a hole raw chicken to themselves, was abit worried they may have eaten to mch but they were fine :) and so thought i would switch them seen as tho they seemed to enjoy that and i had been told on here of all the benefits of a raw diet :)

My pup does not batan eyelid when I feed the cats this, she is just so excited in her own food and so i no she doesnot think she is missing out on anything. As I said she is on a top quality puppy food and have been told by the vet that she is in pristine condition :) which i am very proud of, least I am getting soething right :) So am  i right in thinking no need to change what is working and what she is more than happy with?? :) although what are your thoughts on behavour changes within a pup on raw to one on puppy food ?? I love to learn :)

All though I am a great advocate of raw if you are happy with what you feed your dog and he is happy I would only change if after all your research you feel raw is the better option than kibble , I do . Another good reason to do all your research to find out the benfits of raw against kibble so you can see what the pros and cons of both are.Again for mne there is no contest but others have difering views
Difficult to say directly that your dog will be better on raw without sounding like I am preaching for Raw (well I am really) cant say i have noticed much difference in my dogs behaviour from kibblw to raw but they were changed early one wothin a fortnight of arrival.
Overall health in the longterm should be better teeth healthier its a really difficult one to pin point. I know many who have solved skin problems and coat problems with raw , some who find theri dogs have dodgy tummies recover on raw. I think its mainly preventative  that is a gain from raw.
There is certainly less out put meaning the dogs body is using more of the food put in which is ideal less drinking some research says less chance of bloat and areduction in cancers. I think however alot of these thoughts ae still in the early stages and not sufficient research has been done to prove t. Also I believe we need many generations of raw fed dogs to really see what benefits there are.
My own thoughts as I have said it is naturally to the dog to eat raw not processed and there is proof in humans that processed food is damaging which is just the same as feeding kibble.

Please this is my conculusions and i do not wish to offend anyone with my thoughts in the end it is an individuals decision what one does . oh yes there is are different ways to feed raw/barf I personally use raw meaty bones but either way is brilliant 

As for your cats oh I wish mine would go raw I would definitely feed them raw, from now on without a doubt you will be doing them a favour but make sure it is a good range of meat and fish and then try with your pup ( for your confidence) with a little less kibble and gradually add chicken wings or something.
Even if you dont eventually go raw treats of raw meat and bones also try veg preferably raw but mine will only touch cooked unfortunately  it will be much better than anything else. Also try adding some sardines to his food (tinned in tomato or oil)

You are getting loads right from reading your other post there my be people around you who oppose what you do but I think you will find that most here are in agreement with you :)

Good post furriefriends. I agree with you 100% about raw diet being better and will not go back to kibble unless circumstances chance ie. hopefully never.
LurcherOwner, you might have mistaken the no need for bones to a no need for vegetables. Some people feed a prey diet which only contains raw meat and bones.
If you feed a Barf diet [BonesAndRawFood], bones are a very important part of it. For the novice Barfer chicken frames are very good because the bone/meat ratio is perfect.
If your dog struggles to chew them you can alway chop them in half.
My puppy is teething at the mo, so I'm chopping his carcasses in three to help him out a bit.

> LurcherOwner, you might have mistaken the no need for bones to a no need for vegetables.

I started off with no veg and was happy enough...

Then last winter after the snow, my dog gained a little extra padding - not a lot - and it was suggested I tried adding raw veg blitzed in a food processor. It really seemed to give him 'something extra' and keeps his weight just right, and in addition he doesn't scratch himself any more, which he used to do when kibble fed. He's never looked so good, and the scratching is a thing of the past. I had heard before that adding some veg to a dog's diet can help with that.

Raw feeding is often recommended for dogs with skin issues, which is how my sister first got into it 14 years ago with her GSD after being unable to find a commercial food that suited.