I've only ever attended obedience/agility classes. Tonight I will be going to my first ever ringcraft class and wondered what I can expect?

At our first class I made it really clear I was a beginner and knew nothing, and the chap who ran the classes was helpful and made sure he pointed out why we do this and what not do to in the ring. First the small dogs would be run round together, stacked, and then seen each. Then the larger dogs. Then each dog was run by itself and stacked up and gone over, before moved again in a particular pattern. Then we discussed faults/where we could improve, etc. It was lots of fun, but a bit cliquey so I didn't really enjoy it much until we moved classes.

Good luck with your first ringcraft!

Expect masses of dogs - some breeds you will never have met before, and usually very reliable ie. non aggressive.

The floor will usually have a set of rubber mats to make a triangle and/or a straight runner.  (Seats around the outside of the room) You will probably have to queue with other dogs to be seen by the 'judge' who'll show you how to stand your dog and then move him/her on the mats - perhaps you should take a show lead with you and some titbits.

You can just re-join the queue when you've been seen and re-practice all over again or else sit out and watch/chat.

Match nights are different - the above practice time is usually before the match itself - you can opt in or out of this.  It's a sort of pretend show, but has a judge make decisions between pairs of dogs in a knockout situation.  It's very good pre-show practice for both dog and owner but is less informal than a non match night.

Crates are allowed, piddling/pooping is acceptable and there'll be a mop on hand.  Food is usually served too - my ideal evening out!!!

Have fun!

I just hope we get there in one piece, she is still being car sick and it's country roads all the way there! No evening meal for her tonight until we get back!

when one of my dog was suffering from car sickness I put them in  a crate  and covered it with a blanket no food for 2 hours at least before travelling ...  enjoy the evening..

Went to ringcraft last night with my car sick puppy. (5 mo Papillon.) Left at 7 pm, she'd not eaten since 10 am, had had a travel sickness pill, sat in a covered cage -and arrived covered in sick. Just wiped her down and she walked in and enjoyed herself, it didn't bother her. On the way home she slept so didn't throw up despite all the hot dogs she'd been fed.

How old is she Pedlee?  One of my boys would just about manage the first hour of ringcraft then fall asleep (more like a coma!!)

At our ringcraft we always have a warm up first - weaving through each other, and crossing from one side of the room to the other and stacking in the middle were two such exercises.  Then we have 2 judges working opposite sides of the room so we generally queue up with the next one after finishing the first.  Same again after tea with more time for specific questions or issues.

Where I live we don't really have traffic and no streetlights so I'd always use ringcraft night as an opportunity to familiarise my pups with things they never see at home.  We'd sometimes meet the Brownies too so I expect they could have got badges in puppy smooching!!

Have fun this evening and don't forget to look for show schedules - we always have local ones - and someone will help you complete it if you get stuck :)

Well, I survived, and she was much better than I expected! Next week she'll probably be awful! There were loads of Goldens there.

We managed the journey there and back without being sick, just lots and lots of dribble (I can cope with that). I didn't give her a full evening meal, just a dessertspoon of meat containing a ginger capsule and tree bark powder (her face was a picture - "where's the rest?!")

She's 5 months old and I've already entered a show, on the day she'll be 6 months old. I'm guessing the minor puppy class will be huge (it's the Golden Retriever Club open show), but figured it would be good experience if nothing else.

At a good ringcraft in summer you should practice on grass , as dogs get used to  just Halls ,and not outside smells and noises.As pups get in an older class we used to add a Judge with an umbrella , a Judge wearing a wax jacket with a hood up ,judges wearing hats, judges with walking sticks, judges with glasses are common , as are judges who don't think and wear sunglasses !
We advised beginners on colours to wear behind their dog , even down to suitable shoes , suitable ring clothes , that don't show everything when you bend over your dog ....  types of leads , ring etiquette.
We also did a class teaching where  say the hock is on your dog , how many teeth does a dog have ...where is the stifle,  where is the prow , and surprisingly had 3 actual listed Judges in a breed that didn't know and should have !
Then added simple things like even the judge moving so you have to change hands from left to right ., and if people were interested in aspects of adult handling classes we added that in.
Then we gave the floor to someone who had been a few years in their breed , to explain , say about the points to look for in a Bernese , using the standard to go through point by point , so we all learnt about different breeds.

As pups get in an older class we used to add a Judge with an umbrella , a Judge wearing a wax jacket with a hood up ,judges wearing hats, judges with walking sticks, judges with glasses are common , as are judges who don't think and wear sunglasses !

Not to mention judges with ties that flap in the dogs' faces as they bend down, and sometimes even long coats worn open so they flap around the dog! What a great ringcraft though!!

Those classes sound excellent!

I can't wait to start with my dogs. I think I'll go with one dog for a few weeks, then swop and take the other dog or something like that. Don't think I'll convince my OH to come and handle one of ours unfortunately!

How long do the classes normally go on for?

If I have 2 to take to ringcraft I often find someone to hold one while I take the other in. It's good for them to get used to you leaving them while you are in the ring, Mine are happy to be left now with a stranger (To them I only ever leave them with someone I know !) at a show if I need the loo or a trip to get a cup of tea.
Aileen

That's not a bad idea at all, actually. I must get a crate soon. Ive looked at a few but none of them look tall enough for a greyhound to stand comfortably.

Interesting that everyone seems to think the ringcraft is for the dog!

Having run ringcraft for 30 years it is obvious that its the handlers that are there to be trained -so that they can train the pup in its everyday life.

So much so that I dont ever take my own young dogs to a single class.

A good ringcraft should be about getting the handler to get the best out of the dog, to show it how to enjoy itself and sparkle in the ring.

Having run ringcraft for 30 years it is obvious that its the handlers that are there to be trained -so that they can train the pup in its everyday life.

Can't agree :) in every case -but some. We take youngsters to ringcraft, and I think we're experienced enough to know what to do. In fact at the one I go to we have judges in my breed that attend when they feel the need, such as when they have new pups or if they have an adult dog that's been spooked (so common in Belgians) and need practice.

I agree Marianne if you have a special breed like yours you may need to go somewhere to desensitize.... but if I had one in my breeds that needed that, I wouldnt keep it.... You are using the facilities to simulate a show envirnonment but YOU are already trained how to train and show a dog.

Having run ringcraft for 30 years it is obvious that its the handlers that are there to be trained -so that they can train the pup in its everyday life.

this surprised me as a ringcraft attender!  Having now settled my dog, who looks like he might be quite useful, the attention is now on me in how to make the whole package look the best - it had never occurred to me that just because Mr Dog is looking good, I may not be!!! 

I can't agree. I always take pups to a ringcraft as it socialises them with other breeds and gives them a discipline that they will stand whilst another person goes over them and when other dogs are going past them. I don't have a 'sensitive' breed as such but they love ringcraft and just generally learn that show environment is a nice place to be.

I'm with you - I have a friend who has had dogs in the past that she can only take to club shows because they are scared of big dogs. I go to ringcraft or at least puppy classes of some type, because I consider my little ones need to learn in a supervised way that there are a lot of different breeds out there and most of them are bigger then my dogs. Having said that, Tooolz is absolutely right that a lot of the actual teaching at ringcraft is to train the handler how to move and how to get the best out of their dog.

I have read the thread and would like to say that in my opinion a good ringcraft is to train the novice handlers how to handle their dogs and what to expect in a show ring, and it is also a place the experienced handlers should be happy to bring their dogs for socialisation and training for exhibition at a show.

Like Stevensonsign I would expect to have dogs and handlers used to all manner of things from dangling ties and sunglasses to the judge who is really very odd appearing in the ring. If you are trained to cope with the unexpected it certainly gives you an edge over a dog and handler partnership which has not had that experience.

I think ringcraft could be very boring if you were not able to use it to also learn about other breeds and more about your own dogs. When running a ring craft class I used to do everything like Stevensonsign and we would have part of the evening looking at things like points of the dog, construction and how construction affects movement.

We also kept a record of all our ring craft members wins and put them with pictures into a club album, which made a nice collection for old members and for novice members to aspire to.

>I have a friend who has had dogs in the past that she can only take to club shows because they are scared of big dogs

This is why I always ask someone with perhaps a Rottie, if I may stand next to them while waiting our turn.  Although my Chi's are already used to Collies at home, I feel it's important that they are comfortable around all sizes and breeds.

When I first went to ringcraft about 25 years ago, I didn't have a clue. The person going over dogs told me to stand my dog and I asked 'How?' and was told '4 square'. I was none the wiser and the person was unable to explain what the term meant!!!!! At the time I had a Golden Retriever and learnt more ringcraft from watching other people in the ring. I carried on attending ringcraft, as it is a useful place to actually do some training amongst other dogs, to prepare the partnership of dog and handler for the show ring.

I now have another gundog breed and it astounds me how many novices enter a show at championship level and it is obvious they have never attended ringcraft and look like their understanding is as limited as mine was the first time I attended ringcraft. People tell me the ringcraft in their area 'isn't very good' so they don't bother going. Surely any ringcraft is better than nothing?

I do think some ringcrafts are better than others, but it also depends what you expect to get out of it. I would like the people running ringcraft to tell me if I have stood and moved my dog correctly and not just go through the motions. Some do, some don't and I think part of the reason for this is the inexperience of some of the people actually going over the dogs, so they don't actually know!

Stevensonsign....Sounds like a great ringcraft class!! :-)
Paula xx

Some folk that run ringcraft are worried about upsetting people if they correct the dog's stance , like if they are tooo honest . I used to take the lead very gently , quietly , so the dog stayed in the same position and say to the owner take a few steps away and look at your dog , what do you see...they'd look and go oh, good grief , get it ...!
My pet hate is dogs hauled up under their abdomen or upper thigh , in the bladder region , to re position them. It must hurt . I teach walk your dog round you and restand /free stand/stack or work away from the judge tickling the stifle area in a calming manner  and saying 'stand' to the dog , or 'AND ' if they use obedience commands  such as SIT as the ST  sound is the same.

As I said earlier, those who want to learn need a good ringcraft trainer who brings out the best in the dog by training the handler.

Experienced exhibitors often frequent these (and the not so good classes) to make use of the layout, willing hands and atmosphere...... but thats not what a good class is all about.

Waiting in a line to get your dog 'felt' is not learning nor is it aiding peoples transition from novice to adept handler.

Im sure theres a place for both types but they should be up front about their style and purpose....... IMO of course ;-)