Hi I am new to Champdogsforum, have read with great interest over the last few weeks all of the great and helpful information.
My girl is on day 51, I did not have her scanned as the breeder of the Stud dog (Accredited breeder) said it was not absolutley necessary as they were not 100% reliable, I had her vet checked prior to breeding and again at 28 days, vet did think she was pregnant and gave me lots of information, feeding, worming etc.
Now at day 51, my girl is showing very tiny amounts of watery milk, and is digging holes in the garden.  I was worried for premature labour so took her to vet's today. My normal vet is on holiday for 2 weeks, so saw a locum who palpated her and said she was pregnant.  She said a scan at 50+ days is harder to pick up puppies but she would see if she could see anything.  After a very quick look around she told me she could not see any puppies and it could be a phantom pregnancy, she could not say 100% either way if she is or is not pregnant.  She  what happens in 11-14 days time.
I am totally confused now, do I treat her as being pregnant (she is showing all signs), very disappointed vet could not see anything at 51 days, (vet said scan machine was very new to her)
Any help or advice would be very much appreciated.

I would treat her as pregnant if it were me; if she isn't, the only drawback is a bitch who's just a bit plumper from puppy food than should be and a little less exercised. But if you don't, there could be things you want to avoid that you're not if you get what I mean.

That said, I'm a total newbie at all of this, that's just what I would do!

Thank you for your reply, as I am sure you can imagine I am totally shell shocked to hear at 51 days it could be a false pregnancy :-(
I will take your advice, treat her as we have done as a pregnant bitch, she is still showing all the signs, will keep everything crossed x

I don't understand why the pups wouldn't be visible at 51days, I had one done at 63 days and was told there were 3 pups which is what she had 2 days later.

As the vet admitted she wasn't used to the machine I would treat her as pregnant, a few more days of wormer isn't going to do her any harm, I hope the vet was wrong.

The longest my bitch has gone with a phantom has been 49 days and then all has returned to normal over night.

My bitch recently had 2 pups, I knew from me scanning her there were two in there from around 4 weeks, I don't understand why she said she wouldn't be able to see anything at 51 days you would easily pick up pups spines, ribs, heads, legs.

Thanks for your replys - I really am at a loss as to what is going on here, I really had believed my girl was pregnant, still showing all signs including milk and nesting, to go to the vets today and be told its not 100% she is or isnt is mind boggling!!
Is the information I have been given by the locum vet incorrect - Is it more difficult for puppies to show on a scan at 51 days?? should I ask for an x-ray or should I wait and see as only 10-12 days left and continue with advice from first vet including  worming programme etc??
I am absolutely devastated this evening and really feeling for my girl - is it possible to be a false pregnance at 51 days??

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v194/crazycockers/080309_145359.jpg  this is a scan of one of my girls a couple of years ago, on day 49.

Thank you all for your replys, after a sleepless night worrying about my girl, I will wait and see what nature decides, everything is ready for her should she start labour in 10 days or so. 
Has anyone experienced a phantom that has lasted this long?
Thank you x

Hi Sharon
Thanks for the picture, it was very kind of you to let me see it.  I had no idea what to expect from the scan yesterday, but don't think I saw anything like this, looks like my girl is having a false pregnancy :-(
Will keep a close watch on her over next couple of weeks.
Thank you again

Hello, i  ultrasound  and  if  pups are there at  day 51  your  vet  should of been  able  to  see  altho  to give  numbers  is  more  diffacult, but  if  your  vet  wasnt used to the machine  it  could  have  been operator problems, i would advise  finding  someone  in your  area  that does ultrasound scanning  as  they  will have  far  more  experience  than your  vet  and  hopefully  confirm  one  way  or  other for  you, i wish  you  luck x

What about other signs? At 51 days I'd expect to feel the pups move and often also see them move when the bitch is asleep. It won't be as obvious with a small litter in a big bitch though.

The latest I've had a bitch scanned was about 55 days as far as I remember (we knew she was pregnant but wanted to make sure pups were alive)and yes you do see spines etc as well as heartbeats.

I can't find any specialist dog scanner's in my area, so I am going to make an appointment with an alternative vet to see if they will scan her again and give me a definate answer if she is pregnant or not. 
The vet did say yesterday she could be carrying just 1 or 2 pups and the scan does not always pick small litters up if they are hiding well.
To be honest lost all confidence in this locum vet, after paying for a service, feel very let down with her response "she may be pregnant or it could be a false pregnancy" what kind of answer is that at 51 days :-(

What area are you in.  Someone might know of one for you.

I am in North East, close to Darlington - I have an appointment with another vet practice at 4.15 today, will let you know how we get on.
Thank you for your reply's x

"she may be pregnant or it could be a false pregnancy" what kind of answer is that at 51 days 
Same answer I got from my now ex vet.
Though I had a gut feeling she wasn't.It was a phantom,but she had 5 lovely puppies the following Summer.
Fingers crossed for you.

Good luck for a better result.

There is a scanner your way if you're still not satisfied.

Do you mean the Dogue de Bordeau lady near Sunderland, Reikiangel? She scanned my collie bitch, confirmed she was pregnant but she doesn't give numbers. As I wanted something more definitive than that (she said Nia was 'expecting a large litter') I went down to Domini Allday in Milton Keynes who does it for a living and was brilliant. However, at this late stage and because it is more difficult to give numbers now, the DDB might be worth a try? JMO as I would definitely want to know.

5 puppies seen on scan!!
Thank you all so much for your kind reply's and good wish's.  Will keep you posted when puppies arrive in next 7-10 days x
PS - Strong complaint on its way to yesterday's vet!

Congratulations! I wouldn't want to pay for the first vet if I was you!!

Much better answer!! Good Luck

Congratulations  i think i would be  asking  vets  for my money  back, seems to me  vet  didnt  know  how  to  use the scanner  and  really  that  is  not good practice.

Just  a quick note  re  numbers, we  are  advised  when  doing  training  not  to  give  numbers  as  in early  pregnancy  they can reabsorb  some of  the pups or  you can be  seeing  the same pup twice on the screen as you have to remember its  not  like  looking at  a  xray  as  we are only looking at  echoes and  waves  bouncing  back and  giving the picture,  and  when  the  bitch  comes  to whelping  people  think  more  pups in there,  when i scan i  just say   for instance  i can  see  4  pups at the moment  there  is  possibly  more  or  some  could  be  reabsorbed  and  as  time  goes on its harder  to  count..

> ">5 puppies seen on scan!! <br />

Excellent news.  I'd be asking the vet for my money back as well.  Glad you got a vet who knew how to use the scanner. 

Well done you for going to another vet!! So many people treat vets like gods!! And take every word to be gospel.

Definitely a letter of complaint needs to be done and a request for monies to be returned as you used the practice previously hopefully they won't use that locum vet again and will refund your money.

> PS - Strong complaint on its way to yesterday's vet!

I sincerely hope you weren't charged again.

edit.
oops see it was a different vet.  I would be asking the first practise for refund as you ended up needing a second opinion because of their vets lack of skill.

Re scanners giving numbers. Domini does it so often, and on a variety of animals (as well as being a breeder herself), that she is very competent to give numbers. I've been twice and she's been spot on twice. Obviously if you go 'early' I would imagine a scanner might be less likely to give numbers but I wouldn't want to visit my money by doing that anyway. Nia was seen at four and a half weeks, no problems counting her puppies then.

>5 puppies seen on scan!!

:-)  :-)  :-)

My dog is 51 days pregnant vet confirmed 1 pup but maybe more at day 29 she said she is not very good at using the scanner. When I picked up her panacur to start at day 40  I asked for an xray as worried incase just 1 pup and could book a c section was told they would contact me.I got phone call saying they do not xray pregnant dogs but she was sure she saw 2 pups but if I wanted to bring her for another scan they would be able to see if she was carrying more than 1 pup my dog is a [small breed] and not very big in the tummy for 51 days should I go and pay the money to have her rescanned especially since the vet is not really good at scanning or just wait for the next 12 days to see does she have 2 pups. She is 3 years old and this is her first and only litter she mated and tied with my daughters dog [same breed] on the 18th and 20th july so due around 19th sept