Hi All
We've just taken our ten week old lab x GSD to have her first set of jabs, and get the 'once over', and unfortunately she has a harsh grade 6 heart murmur, which the vet has tentatively diagnosed as patent ductus arteriosus (she's too small to be certain just by listening to her heart, but I guess we'll find out when we take her in for X-rays/ECG etc). The really unlucky thing is, if it does turn out to be a PDA, it can be surgically corrected with a fairly high success rate if it's done early enough, but because it's a congenital abnormality, the insurance won't cover the cost of the operation (about £1000, and three days in Glasgow). So two questions really, does anyone know of any animal welfare/charity organisations that we could approach for help with the operation? Failing that, does anyone have any experience of looking after a dog with this condition, or with any form of congestive heart failure? We've already got her on a low sodium diet to minimise the build up of fluid in her organs, and are restricting her exercise as much as you can with a mad pup :-), she has no symptoms of heart failure as yet, but the prognosis is poor, and she's unlikely to make twelve months, so if anyone has any suggestions as to how we can maintain her quality of life for as long as possible, they'd be very gratefully received!

Cheers
Jenna

No idea how to help financially, but PDA , i KNOW from experience, can be mended & a normal lifestyle resumed afterwards.
Good luck

I had a very similar situation with my border collie pup - grade 5 heart murmur at 10 weeks. The vet thought it was PDA and said it was operable. However, on the pup having ultrasound, x-rays and ecg it was discovered that it was not PDA. He had an enlarged heart and the cause is tricuspid dysplasia (faulty heart valve) which can be corrected in humans but not yet in dogs. The prognosis was not good - again, not expected to reach 12 months. He is now 2 yrs and 7 months and still symptom free! At first I wrapped him in cotton wool, but then decided that I would allow him to enjoy life and if his life was short, it would be a short happy life. He doesn't know he is ill and can outrun my other dogs. I am realistic and know that he will probably have a short lifespan, but I let him do what he wants. The vets are amazed that he is doing so well. He is on no medication, but I am told he may cough and suffer from fluid retention in the future. I was also told he would tire easily and may pass out when excited, but he has never done this. He is very underweight - 13kg, but this is because he is always on the go! Good luck with your pup.

Thanks for the replies :-)

I'm half hoping it turns out not to be a PDA sam, the cost of the operation will really crucify me, and there are always risks involved with any surgery, having to make the decision whether or not to operate is going to be REALLY tough, if it comes to that. I'm more hopeful after reading about your experience jj, I suppose when the vet first spots a problem like this, he has to be all doom and gloom, worst case scenario, because after all, there is a chance that that's how it'll work out. Minx did get a couple of days of 'extra priviledges' (blimey, how do you spell that?) while we were getting used to the idea ourselves, but then we came to the conclusion that she thinks she's fine and there's nothing wrong, unless our behaviour convinces her otherwise. So although she's still on the low sodium diet, and we exercise her for as long as she feels like it rather than as long as we do, she's not having the cotton wool treatment :-)

She's off to the vets tomorrow, so hopefully we will know more then - seems odd to think she may have something really seriously wrong when she's so full of beans and looks so healthy. Her heart rate and breathing are worryingly fast though. Just have to wait and see I guess!

Another thought Jenna, a friend of mine had a bloodhound with same problem. The vet said he could wrap it in cotton wool, never let it get over-excercised/tired etc & it would probably live a fair while. Alternatively he could give it a normal life, hunt it, compete in trials & let it do the things a bloodhound loves (hunting!) It would probably drop dead out hunting one day but that was the risk. Needless to say he took the latter option & the hound had a fine quality of life. Occassionally it would keel over while hunting, but would revive agin & carry on like nothing had happened. the hound had a lovely active life & died of cancer!!!!

Hi again

Glad you are feeling a little bit more hopeful. My dog too has always had a rapid heartbeat and pants ALL the time. The vet keeps mentioning that as long as the heatbeat is 'sinus rhythm' that is a good thing. (not quite sure what that means)! I agree with you to let the pup enjoy being a pup and not wrap her up in cotton wool.

I was very soft with mine because I really did not expect him to live so long and now he is a hooligan! But luckily doesn't cause any problems!

Good luck

JJ

Just come back from the vets with Minx, and the news is most excellent, if very confusing! He had a good ole listen and poke around, looked momentarily baffled, and then told us the murmur had completely disappeared, and he would now grade it as 'zero'. Considering it was a harsh 'six' only two weeks ago, he thinks it was probably the ductus arteriosus closing late, so all being well (and if he's right!) we should have no further problems! :-) :-) :-)

I've always been led to believe that if the ductus hasn't closed by around 8 days, it's not likely to, has anyone heard of it happening this late (between 10 and 12 weeks)?

I have certainly heard of pups having a murmer at first vaccs and then it being gone by th4e second.

I bred a puppy who at 8 weeks (new early vacc protocol) was said to have a murmer, as this does not appear to be common in my breed I was rather worried), but by 10 weeks there was no sign!!!