Hi could you tell me if its frowned upon to mate 1/2 brother to 1/2 sister they both share same CH sire, and both have been selected from litters for a breeding programme. both dog & bitch are health tested clear in good health and of good specimens for breed.  alot of thought ,  time & effort has gone into both of these 2 dogs . thanks

> could you tell me if its frowned upon to mate 1/2 brother to 1/2 sister

Try putting the names of both dogs in here  That will give you the coefficient of inbreeding for your prospective litter. You can compare it with the average CoI for your breed. If it was me I'd run it past your bitches breeder too (unless you bred her yourself?) That way you should hopefully get a better idea if there's anything you don't want likely to be lurking in there.

1/2 brother to 1/2 sister matings can work out very well but you need to have a really thorough knowledge of your lines before you do it.

I would also speak to the KC to make sure they will register the pups as they have tightened up the rules recently.

Half brother sister matings are allowed

close breeding (in breeding rather than line breeding ) so you need to know the lines well and not a mating to be undertaken lightly. The best dog I have ever owned was from a half sibling mating and there are NO problems with KC reg.

It goes without saying that the line being inbred to has been studied and there are no ill health/temperament problem skeletons that close breeding will bring out of the cupboard.

There are half brothers and sisters and then there are those that are related both sides which makes them closer to full siblings. 

The first I have done with success but both parents were from an out-cross mating and I wanted to fix/get back to the common parents lines traits.

Once you have done such a mating (I assume to fix type) you need to consider what |you will do in the next generation, as you will then need to breed out.  Are there dogs of the type you like that are as near as possible unrelated to these two for you to use after?

In my case I went abroad to find something sufficiently unrelated.

Same here, my best dog was half brother-half sister - but you do need to know everything behind both dogs, as his breeder did.

I've had a litter like this, this year. Nice looking pups but it did bring up an issue we didn't know existed until the line was doubled up on. (Nothing serious, I won't say what, but it's not something you want.) One thing I'd like to point out is that show people have no problems buying  pups from half brother to half sister, but people looking for a pet will often shy away as they will have seen on TV, read in newspapers, been told by their vet etc that inbreeding is what causes all illnesses under the sun and never to buy an inbred pup. So the pups can be difficult to sell unless all can go to show homes -which of course is unlikely. Hence I wouldn't do it in a breed with large litters.

I think it depends on the breed, what genetic illnesses are lurking in the breed and how much of a genetic variety the breed has.

My first attempt at getting a foundation bitch was from bitch from half sibling mating put together to similar lines again.
The first generation from half brother-sister mating had no issues (breeding done twice)and were top winning dogs of their time but next generations after have had multiple issues and issues that people are now struggling to get rid of...

In my breed I would not go that close as the genetic variety is very small and I have seen it many times what happens once people do such matings.
But if you can do that kind of mating, I would say do make sure you can breed out in the next generation.

"Half brother sister matings are allowed"

It is time it was forbidden :-(  Certainly in my breed anyway.

It is time it was forbidden :-(  Certainly in my breed anyway.
It can be a brilliant mating if done by breeders with knowledge.  What should be banned IMO is breeding by people without knowledge who sit at home and produce puppies and aren't involved in any canine activities, which is where experience is shared. :(

West Coast -  FAB post :-) (lol)

thanks you all for your very helpful replies. we have looked back in to  pedigree generation. we have had plenty of help on most of issue that may or may not crop up. i think that most breeding can have problems put also can give postives results. A good point about show or pet home may be more differcult to find is something that i had not considered!!! As long as the kennel club doesn't change its rules on the breeding of half sister to half bother etc then it should not be problem , just apiece of mind to those who have replied to my topic i have spent aproxx 3 years planning this breeding program, just one thought that go's out to everyone is rule of breeding is to help to improve the breed standard fingers cross, people have differant views & ways on how & which is the best way to breed quaility litter/puppy for me this is may way to get (my champion) pup. again thanks for your replies as i have be able to take postive feed back from your replies. again thank you.

I would say is there a specific aim you are trying to achieve that only this pairing is likely to give you.  do you know where you will/can go in the next generation?

Also I assume that at least one parent has already been bred from with good results?

When I did my half brother to sister mating the common parent was my own bitch (3rd generation homebred), who was at the time the veteran mother of three litters of which several of the offspring had already been bred from without issue and more importantly producing offspring of the type I wanted.

The closer the breeding the more you need to know of any negatives.

Oh god, here we go again - NO NO NO NO. it is NOT alright. Is it ok with humans ? NO- so ask yourselve why.

Yes it is 'frowned upon' by everyone who cares about dogs.

> Is it ok with humans ? NO- so ask yourselves why.
>
>

Primarily for religious/moral reasons, also in humans we do not practise selective breeding. 

Interestingly that despite generally low levels of human inbreeding we have far more inherited genetic disease than in our dogs?

Where close kinship causes problems in human families is repeated close marriage over generations with no selection.

The recent program highlighting cousin marriage and the high level of abnormalities was in cultures where cousins married generation upon generation.

>Oh god, here we go again - NO NO NO NO. it is NOT alright. Is it ok with humans ? NO- so ask yourselve why.

However it's perfectly normal for animals. Ask yourself why.