Just had a phonecall from a potential puppy buyer. My advert had said POA, the conversation went great until she asked how much I was asking for the litter...I told her and she almost deafened me shouting "how much??" I repeated myself and explained about health tests and the cost of raising the litter and that the price of the puppy reflected the time, care and expense that has gone/will go in to raising the litter. She then said (in a very obnoxious tone) "I cant believe how much you are charging, that is way out of my price league" and then hung up!

To be honest, Im annoyed with myself for defending myself. I know that I am charging a reasonable price. Unfortunately, my breed is one where you can aquire a puppy from a farm for less than £200.

As you can tell, this phonecall rather annoyed me!

I think the answer is  'From me you get what you pay for' you don't do bargain basement pups as that would mean cutting corners, re health welfare and rearing.

Most of the time I tend to put price in adverts and on my websites -it cuts down on hassle like this.

ditto Marianne, I didn't do this with my very first litter and had a number of such calls, having the price cuts out this problem.

Especially vital where there is a wide price and quality range (both pups and breeders) in the breed.

You get what you pay for, and a higher price means she gets a healthy pup from you! What a horrid woman. Tell her to F off if she calls again.

My recent litter I put the price on and one woman rang to see if I would reduce it for her,when I refused she ranted at me that it was top end of the price range to which I replied that they were top quaility puppies and parents were health tested,she soon put the phone down,and my puppies have got lovely homes with people that realise they get what they pay for.

I put price on application on my advert when I had my last litter.As when I bought all my Woos from reputable breeders I never asked a price until I went to view the pup.With all my new puppy owners,none asked the price until they visited me in person - they all knew that they could buy a BYB pup that had no health tests,was ill bred with no thought into the mating for much less.They thankfully felt mine fitted their expectations and I hope will continue to do so. A local young woman rang me and asked the price and I knew I wouldn't hear from her again.I told her she could get a much cheaper puppy in the free ads from a BYB - guess thats where she went unless it was me explaining how difficult the breed could be,she would have to vist me and the woos first,sign a contract etc.....
My opinion is if you have to ask the price then you can't afford it!!!!(within reason but does not apply to new shoes or handbags)

My opinion is if you have to ask the price then you can't afford it!!!!(within reason but does not apply to new shoes or handbags)

Definitely don't agree there! One of my breeds can vary from £250 to £3000 (yes really), the other from £400 to £1000. Kittens in my breeds between 3 and 4 figures, so huge price ranges. Not many people can afford to just whip out a grand or more, so when the prices are in those higher ranges you need to save up, and therefore it really helps to know in advance.

> What a horrid woman. Tell her to F off if she calls again.

I think that is rather OTT and would be an incredibly rude way to treat someone making an enquiry. 
Drover felt she did not like her tone but that is subjective after all and if you read the actually words quoted I see nothing rude in what the woman said. 
A lot of people have no idea what a pedigree puppy costs and we all have our own budgets to live by.
As others have said, it is probably best to state the price in any advertisement and save both yourself unecessary conversations and the enquirer from any possible embarassment.

I find tone very informative on the phone, and over text; when the lives of one of my babies is at stake I'm pretty blunt. I had one woman email me recently and the very first thing she asked was price, and if she could breed; I was very polite and told her plainly that she couldn't breed from one of my dogs until I lift the endorsement should the dog be tested, old enough, and a good example of the breed. If you would have seen her questions you wouldn't think she was rude, but it's the tone and with pups you have to be so careful.

I would never tell someone to f off but words to that effect, I would, yes! Politely, but firmly, tell them to find a puppy elsewhere!

But if you buy from a reputable breeder who belongs to a breed club and abides by their code of ethics (questions a prospective puppy owner should be asking) then if the price is silly money they are clearly not an ethical breeder.However the price of a puppy doesn't end with the purchase price.
Shame the general public can't be educated about ethical,BYB and doubious mixes.
Whilst at work a few collegues who dislikes dogs due to their culture was very rude when they discovered prices of well breed dogs.
Due to the growing popularity of my bred(and to its detriment I have to say) prices by BYB have fallen whilst prices for a well bred puppy have remained stable.Before and just after we were awarded C.Cs a BYB was comanding upto £1200 in the free ads whilst a good breeder was charging and still does between £800 and £900.Now BYB are charging around £500,no tests and in the main not K.C reg as most puppies from good breeders will have endorsements.These are the 'breeders' who will tell Joe public that as they aren't K.C registered they are healthier and don't require tests etc.I it makes me scream when they charge extra for the rare blue eyed or long coat puppy.
So yes Marianne I do agree about the range of price,but its about researching the breed and speaking to owners/reputable breeders etc.My puppy owners had an idea of the price of a puppy before they visited and were happy to pay,and knew about costs after they brought their bundle home eg insurance,food etc.

> My opinion is if you have to ask the price then you can't afford it!!!!(within reason but does not apply to new shoes or handbags)
>
> Definitely don't agree there! One of my breeds can vary from £250 to £3000 (yes really), the other from £400 to £1000. Kittens in my breeds between 3 and 4 figures, so huge price ranges. Not many people can afford to just whip out a grand or more, so when the prices are in those higher ranges you need to save up, and therefore it really helps to know in advance. <IMG class=qButton title="Quote selected text" alt="Quote selected text" src="/images/mi_quote.gif" width=20 height=10>

I agree - it would seem to me to be responsible to ask the price as they can and do vary between litters. If someone didn't ask the price I might be tempted to think that money was no object and may mean that it was easy come easy go along with the things the money purchased . One of my current dogs was seen as a disposable item by his original purchasers and was put into rescue at 9 weeks old to save them the journey of taking him  back to the breeder when they quickly realised a puppy was far harder work than they had originally thought it was. They weren't worried at all about losing the cost of the puppy and I believe they had to pay the rescue to take him as well.

> I would never tell someone to f off but words to that effect, I would, yes! Politely, but firmly, tell them to find a puppy elsewhere!

Perhaps that would have been the better advise to give then :)

> If you would have seen her questions you wouldn't think she was rude, but it's the tone

I'm struggling to image yes :)  If the questions were not rude how on earth can you add a "tone"? 

It does seem to me that people find the mere act of asking an affront but I really don't see why.

But if you buy from a reputable breeder who belongs to a breed club and abides by their code of ethics (questions a prospective puppy owner should be asking) then if the price is silly money they are clearly not an ethical breeder.

No, it doesn't necessarily work like that. You can have two equal breeders in both my breeds AND both my cat breeds, both perfectly good, and one can charge two or even three times as much as the other. I find where you live makes a huge difference, as London prices are always higher and hence when I have pet kittens for sale, at Yorkshire prices, people very frequently come all the way from London just for a pure pet as it works out cheaper for them than to buy one in London.

The mere asking is what I mean by tone; if you had a puppy buyer who sent you this message like the one who contact me;

'Hi, glad to see a breeder in our area, didn't know of any near by!
How much are your puppies? We have a 15 month old boy of the same breed and might breed.
thanks,
Bye'

None of that was rude, but the mere asking was a red flag for me and I find it rude to ask about price so early in the process. You're right that I should have been more specific in my advice to Drover though, I'm sorry if I looked a bit rude. :)

Now to me there was nothing I would mind in that until: > and might breed.

The implication is they want one to mate to their dog.

some people are short and sweet when writing emails

I can understand that, truly I can, but they should be doing their research before contacting breeders, surely? I want the first question to be 'Can I meet your dogs?' or 'Do you health test?', not the cost. I think it might jsut be personal to me, but I can understand that it is innocent in some cases.

> 'Hi, glad to see a breeder in our area, didn't know of any near by!
> How much are your puppies? We have a 15 month old boy of the same breed and might breed.
> thanks,
> Bye'
>
> None of that was rude, but the mere asking was a red flag for me

I think there is some confusion arising between an unacceptable enquiry, in the sense that you are not going to agree to it, and rudeness. 

No it isn't rude to ask. Many people are ignorant of what constitutes responsible breeding. 
I don't see why it is rude to ask the price straight away.  I would really rather they did to save a lot of time all round.

I want the first question to be 'Can I meet your dogs?' or 'Do you health test?', not the cost. I think it might jsut be personal to me, but I can understand that it is innocent in some cases.

I agree -anyone asking price first off me usually don't get a reply, if they have emailed. I want all the other questions first, but have no problem whatsoever with price being asked during that first conversation, as long as it is just part of it and not the main point. I nearly died when I was going to get a puppy myself (pure pet) and my husband placed the call (I hate phones and never make calls but if I have to I will answer them) and his first question was price. I really apologised to the breeder! Thankfully we'd had two pups off her in the past, years earlier, so we weren't total strangers.

I think that asking the price early in the process saves a lot of wasted time and effort on both parts. I would feel so guilty if I had wasted someones time, only to have to say sorry I can't afford to pay that much. It doesn't seem rude to me to ask whether the idea of buying a puppy is feasible and within your financial means. Once the principle has been established then the selection process can really begin.

I don't think it's rude to ask price, but just not straight off; one of my puppy buyers asked price at the end of our first conversation, I'd already ok'd her as an owner and she said it cautiously, politely, it made a real difference to me.

Stooge, please understand that I'm a brand new breeder; this is my very first litter. I'm much more likely to err on the side of caution and have very little experience with buyers, so will be looking out for any flags, which does mean I may be more cautious than I need to be sometimes. I totally accept that, it's just my personality; perhaps in a few years I'll have a better perception and be able to spot a flag from way off without being edgey about the small things.

I'm so glad someone else hates calls! I really loathe them and my heart starts racing as soon as I pick up the receiver, taking puppy buyer calls has been difficult for me!

I never get that kind of call, but I do always state the price ( on the rare occasion I have a pup for sale) quite clearly.

Yes, Drover, unfortunately there are far too many litters in our breed selling at 'low' prices who are left in a barn/kennel to get on with it, with no thought as to health testing/home rearing/socialisation etc. I charged £450 for mine, which I was aware could seem high given the recession, but pleased to say all have found lovely homes. The 3 pet homes never queried the price but I had two other early enquiries who dropped out because of the price - funnily enough they were friends of each other, one did Agility, the other did Obedience. They weren't missed at all lol. The others all said how pleased they were to find someone who had put so much into the litter and was fussy where the puppies went. It cost me £2,000 to raise the litter (excluding taking an academic year off because the pups were born in August and couldn't go until Oct so meant I missed the boat for that year's teaching) and I didn't get my much longed for pup but, as the others have said, you can hold your head high and know you are doing your very best for the litter and you can't put a price on that. Breeders like you are few and far between in our breed, let those who want a cheap puppy look elsewhere. It will probably cost them far more in the long run....

Don't be worried about charging for your puppies. It's your time and expertise as well as health tests etc. I don't justify it anyone, I have expenses to cover and a mortgage to pay.

I'm no where near the cheapest trainer in my area and I'm proud of it. Fewer dogs in group, nice treats, nice toys, good equipment, handouts and hopefully a good rep. I get lots of people who go to the cheaper places and find their way to me eventually.

It's the difference between marks and spencers and primark!!

You buy cheap, you buy twice!! 

Strange, peoples reactions to different questions.

I prefer wherever possible to email a breeder first - mainly because I HATE phoning people, it is SO intrusive I think, and I don't want to phone someone for what I think ought to be a lengthy chat, at a time that might very well be inconvenient for them.

The first questions I tend to ask are about the breed (if it is a breed I have not had before), whether I can meet their dogs, if they are planning a litter, etc etc.

If for whatever reason I was ringing about a litter already on the ground then I would HAVE to ask the price at some point in the initial conversation, because though I can comfortably afford probably quite a lot more dogs than most people, I cannot find xhundred quid at a moments notice (not without dipping into the dogs savings which I won't do) so I would need to know to get money together at relatively short notice (though I wouldnt be phoning if i didnt think I could achieve fairly near the breed average in the first place!).

If there isnt currently a litter in existance, then price is not all that important to me so it comes up later on (in an apologetic 'im terribly sorry but I do need to know, how much are your pups?' sort of way!), if of course, I haven't been told already.

If a pup is out of my price range for whatever reason then I would just be polite and say so and leave it at that. I see no reason to be rude, if I thought the breeder was asking silly money I might continue to shop around, or i would hold on longer and save up!

Several people have said or implied that if the person had done their research then they would have a rough idea of the going rate for the breed.

In the OP's case they probably had, but based their idea on all the cheap puppy adverts, so could be forgiven for thinking the posters price high, though no excuse for rudeness.

On the other hand you might just be the first person they contact when doing their research on the breed, they obviously have to start that somewhere.

I have a website that I update very regularly so ti comes up pretty much near the top on searches for the breed, so I expect to get very varied contact regarding the breed, from people who have only just heard of their existence to those whose family have had them for generations.

The reaction I most often get re price in my breed is 'oh is that all' as we have such low registrations at the moment, people expect to pay more for their rarity.  It has gone from 150 pups registered 20 years ago to 31 puppies registered last year and only 34 in the first half of this year, I think none in third quarter, and we might just get two more litters in the breed before the year is out.

Of course the OP is cautious, and entitled to be so.

I have no problem with people enquiring about pups and not knowing what price to expect when I havent listed the price, but this particular person is experienced with the breed and competes in obedience, there was absolutely no need for her rudeness and i found it quite insulting to be honest, especially as she had told me she wanted to ensure parents were health tested due to one of her current dogs having health issues (same breed).

I'm not going to try and compete with the breeders in my breed who dont do any health tests and can then afford to shell them out at £150 a go. As it is, I have a full waiting list anyway and even with them paying the price I am charging, with her only looking likely to have a small litter I wont even cover half the amount this litter has cost- and thats without any complications so far...good job its not the money i'm doing it for!

Quite right.  Inexcusable from someone already in the breed.

Rare occasion? *looks sad* I do like to know the price if I'm buying a puppy, it wouldn't be my first question, but I generally do try to remember to ask. It wouldn't put me off if I was told a largish sum, I am more than happy to pay top price for a good potential health tested puppy. But it's handy to know a couple of months in advance to prepare hubby for the latest doggy dent in the bank balance! :-D

>>I never get that kind of call, but I do always state the price ( on the rare occasion I have a pup for sale) quite clearly.

Especially because, in our breed, it is very hard to find a good stud dog/bitch with working ability and excellent lines who has had all the health tests. I had to rule out several Obedience stud dogs I would have liked to use but whose owners think it is okay to sire pups without checking that their dogs are clear for all the relevant conditions. It isn't helped by bitch owners being willing to use these dogs regardless (probably because their own girls aren't tested either and nor will the pups will). Oooh, don't get me started lol. 

Having a lot of friends in the Obedience etc side it is one of my hobby horses too.

At least here is one part where the ABS really does help -you cannot register pups if you're an AB unless both parents have had the relevant tests. It works in more way than one also, eg. "Sorry, I'd love to use your dog but as an AB I cannot unless he's had his tests done" -it's a slightly less confrontational way to say "You irresponsible person, I wouldn't dream of using your dog as he hasn't been tested!" :)

Unfortunately, I don't think the Obedience world cares either way if anyone is an AB (I would prob get told lots of anti-AB stories if I rejected a stud dog on that basis). They are so driven by results/what the dog does in the ring that they are blinkered to anything else.

Bitch owners might also be worried that they would have to charge more for their pups because of the health test costs but, having said that, you get what you pay for. And, apart from the annual eye test, the other health tests for the dog/bitch are a one-off so subsequent litters from the same bitch should not, in theory, incur the same costs to the breeder. I think another problem is 'reputation', ironically. People are often afraid to ask if the dog/bitch has been tested when they are well known/have a famous handler in case they receive short shrift. 

> My opinion is if you have to ask the price then you can't afford it!!!!

This attitude from breeders really puts me off.  I have NO issue with someone asking the price (depending on how they ask it - but that goes with how they ask any question), because as far as I'm concerned a dog is a considered purchase.  It's a purchase you'll be buying and hopefully spending the next 10-15 (or more) years with.  You wouldn't buy a car, or a stereo or an appliance (I would hope) before doing a little bit of research, shopping around and seeing what was a reasonable price for what you were after was. You wouldn't expect to walk into a store for any kind of considered purchase and have no prices and then have the salesperson look down their nose at you because 'if you have to ask you can't afford it'.  

It was (politely) one of the first questions I asked when I started asking.  I wasn't looking for a pup right away, but I asked a few breeders what kind of price I should be looking at for the breed I was interested in because I wanted to know how long I needed to save up to afford one.  I think it's a totally reasonable question and I think it's unreasonable that breeders are offended by the question being asked.

It's an awkward one in the first place, and I usually try to bring it up before the close of conversation if the potential buyer hasn't.  And I don't have a problem if they think it's a bit steep for them.  There's a range of price in our breed.  Mine are about mid-range. 

So for me it's not that they ask the question or even when they ask the question, it's 'how' they ask the question - but by that time (if it's not one of the first ones) I already know if they're going to have a hissy fit over the price, there's going to be other alarm bells gone off for me before that.

> My puppy owners had an idea of the price of a puppy before they visited and were happy to pay,and knew about costs after they brought their bundle home eg insurance,food etc.

But where did they get that idea of price - they must have at some point had to have asked someone.  They didn't just pluck it out of the air??

> But where did they get that idea of price - they must have at some point had to have asked someone.&nbsp; They didn't just pluck it out of the air??

Just what I said, I am quite often the first point of contact in someones research into our breed because I have a website that is updated regularly, so it comes up near the top on searches.

I hope puppy owners have done research first and have an approximate idea of price - that being within £150 to £200 each way of a puppy from a reputable ethical breeder,health tested and supports the breed clubs code of ethics.I would hope to think that a prospective puppy owner would know that their would be possible implications between paying say £450 for a pup to one of £900 of the same breed.Of course at some point the price would have to come up in conversation,but I PERSONALLY dislike it when this is asked at the start of the coversation.I would much rather talk about things like health testing,the positive and negative points in the breed,why have you chosen this breed etc - then the price and if happy invite them to visit us.I guess part of the research,which is what we did when we first came into the breed was to visit reputable breeders and visit open dog shows locally and chat about the breed - pro cons etc and ask them what they would expect to pay for a puppy.I have coversations with people about puppies in general and they were flabbergiasted to think puppies could be sold for more than a few hundred pounds.But I guess these are the people that would only look at the free ads and not seriously consider well bred puppies.Even if someone chose not to buy a puppy from me if I had any,I would hope I have put them in the right direction of what to lok for in a well bred puppy.
I certainly would not have a hissy fit if I was asked the price of a pup at the start of the conversation,but would expect this to be followed up by sincere appropriate questions = on both sides.
The remark 'if you have to ask the price they can't afford' it is something I wouldn't directly say to the prospective puppy owner in that context.Itbwas meant to be a light hearted comment as in the full context of that statement.Yes buying a puppy is a serious business and needs to be done throughly,but our puppies are very precious to us and we all want the best homes possible.However I would have to say in conversation once the price has been discussed about the ongoing costs of dog and puppy ownership eg vet bills,insurance,diet etc things that can get overlooked.I certainly do not need to know their income status,but merely point out the ongoing needs and potential needs of a pup.
I have never been rude to anyone but have curtailed conversations early on when for example they can not get the breed name correct,or we want a mate for our bitch - we would love puppies of our own - only to mention its a completely different breed.I certainly would not end the conversation if they initially asked the question of price first but would hope there would be more important things to discuss first.If towards the conversation they donot want a pup,I don't consider this wasting my time but hope I pointed them in the right direction or have given them something to think about.

> I hope puppy owners have done research first and have an approximate idea of price

Where?

I did say in the above post how I did my research,and I thought we always recommend puppy owners to do their research and gave them ideas?

> I did say in the above post how I did my research

I don't mean to be rude but it is quite hard to read with very little paragraphing etc :).

Could you perhaps just say again, specifically, how you think a prospective owner should research the price of a particular breed in a particular area?

> I thought we always recommend puppy owners to do their research and gave them ideas?

Yes, if we were talking about researching a breed to establish if it would suit your life style or researching how to find a reputable breeder I would know exactly where to direct people to find that information but if someone needed to find out if they could afford a breed I would have just said ask the breeder.

> visit open dog shows locally and chat about the breed - pro cons etc and ask them what they would expect to pay for a puppy

That's exactly what I've done when researching a new breed. It's fun and a great way to learn. Also I Google the relevant breed clubs and look at their sites. I have then phoned the secretary, who shouldn't after all, mind talking to a prospective newcomer to their breed. Secretaries can be most useful people who often know who might be expecting litters. I also ask them what a typical price might be. Of course I would then still have to ask any individual breeder what they were asking.

It doesn't have to be too difficult.

> Of course I would then still have to ask any individual breeder what they were asking.

Exactly :)

> It doesn't have to be too difficult.

It doesn't have to be difficult at all :)

Sorry about the lack of paragraphing but with a naff hand (still) and I losing my reading specs - reading and writing is a little fuzzy at the mo.
 
When I talk about money/price of a puppy I have never said I would never expect the question to come up at some point during a chat.Generally when I have had a puppy enquiry(and I have only had 3 litters since 1993) I can literally spend more than an hour talking about the breed/breeders/rescue/health etc..etc...These are usually genuine enquiries(even when I didn't have puppies I would direct them to reputable breeders.)The question of price will no doubt be asked,however I personally dislike this being a question asked early on.I would rather be asked about the Dam/sire/health tests/pedigree/contracts etc first.However,if asked early on during the conversation of course I would say the price.Increasingly more people are are putting POA on their ads - you only have to look at Champdogs.I would be disheartened if someone rang me up and asked' do you have any puppies and how much',it just seems too hollow and lacking in something - this is my opinion only and we are entitled to think what we like, (though I wouldn't say out loud what I think first)This is the point I am making - ASKING TOO EARLY IN A CONVERSATION ABOUT PRICE disheartens me personally.
It is unlikely,though not impossible that I have been the first point of contact.I would think most people would scan the free ads,on line ads even asked at shows or contacted other breeders thus usually at some point price would be asked.Even googling can give you a rough idea between prices of health tested well bred dogs or by BYB.
Maybe because I have owned and breathed dogs for the past 29 years has given me binocular vision,but certainly before I bought my first Mal I had a pretty good idea on what price to expect.My first Mal was advertised with its asking price,my other subsequent Mals were not.but I personally didn't ask a price until I viewed the pups - my choice.
As for my breed in a particular area - a well bred Malamute would cost no more in London as it would in Norfolk or Cornwall.
Hope this clarifies my idea of thinking  :)

> where to direct people to find that information but if someone needed to find out if they could afford a breed

the breed club contacts will know what the going price range is for a well bred puppy.

Well I ploughed through this time regardless of lack of paragraphs :)

I would not have said scanning the free ads would give a purchaser any kind of accurate idea of price from a respectable breeder and at the end of the day people need to know what their chosen breeder will be expecting.

I really can't see why anyone would prefer to be asked at a show rather than over the phone.

> the breed club contacts will know what the going price range is for a well bred puppy.

Yes, and that will be very useful information not least in knowing whether your chosen breeder is suspiciously cheap or perhaps just being silly :) but their price is what you really need to know.

>> visit open dog shows locally and chat about the breed - pro cons etc and ask them what they would expect to pay for a puppy
>

This will only really apply if your breed is very popular and they happen to have your breed scheduled and get entries in your breed.

with a breed like mine you won't see them at most Open shows in any number, even with classes, and unless your lucky your unlikely to find 'local' breeders.  so I am used to being a first contact for people interested in the breed. 

I do a straw poll among other breeders to keep up to date with the going price as give or take £50 we like to stick to the same price as often you need to pass enquiries on to another breeder.

We don't seem to be an expensive breed considering our low numbers, more or less in line with well bred puppies of other medium size breeds, and a lot less than many, so availability/scarcity of puppies isn't a clue as to price.

My second breed is also surprisingly well priced and this has very small numbers being bred each year - maybe one or two but even less as the breeder that introduced the breed to the UK has been seriously ill sadly for a long period of time.

> I do a straw poll among other breeders to keep up to date with the going price as give or take £50 we like to stick to the same price as often you need to pass enquiries on to another breeder.

I think that is the best way.  I never minded anyone phoning about prices.  I was always happy to tell them.