Just come off the phone from a good friend of mine who lives not too far away. A family his wife is friends with decided on Saturday morning they would like a dog. By Saturday afternoon they were the proud owners of a five week old Shih Tzu and a three and half week old Rottweiler. Kids are off to school this morning and mum and dad are off to work as normal.
Perhaps the media darlings might like to address this problem first?
Jeff.   

Those poor poor little puppies. :-( It makes you despair.

That's nothing but sick. :( As for anyone selling pups at that age -speechless. :( If they even survive, and are kept as long, I can see the little one getting accidentally killed by the big one in play in the not too distant future. Awful.

This made me feel sick! Those poor poor babies, will be very surprised if they survive, can you not find out where they got there puppies from? And try stop it before it happens again? This is so sad and too much of this kind of thing going on!

We had a couple come to dog come to our training last night, with a 12 week old GSD pup which they had aquired at 5 1/2 weeks, in cases like this i am unable to hide my disgust in cases like this, so i prove a little further i.e. ask who the breeder is, low and behold its a friend down the road who has a dog and a bitch !!!!!!! The bitch (he proudly announces) is all kc papered up. The dog however........is a dog from rescue. I then point out that i would be almost certain that it is against most rescue centres T's and C's to breed from a dog you home. Apparently it was fine as the puppies were all weaned at 5 1/2 weeks. It absolutely infuriates me and i could have cried for the little pup :( they did appear to listen and learn and the pup did appear to be happy and balanced but............

:(
poor little pups and that is just 2 pups from 2 litters. All of thier littler-mates willmost likely be going to equally ill-vetted homes at very young ages. Then how many more litters do those 'breeders produce and how many other breeders are there like that :( Adds up to a LOT of pups :(

A bloke that lives on my street bred a litter of Mals at the begining of this year (non KC reg. no health tests, the bitch was a cheap purchase from a person that didn't want her anymore rather than a carefully selected dam). The bitch has just had another litter - apparently the mating was accidental, but hey-ho at £450 per pup he's set to make himself a tidy little sum, no money to come out of that for health tests, shows, agility/working trials etc and as he owns the sire too, not even any stud fee or traveling expenses to a stud (the only 2 dogs he has are this male & female).

He asked me if I wanted one, I said I would take one off his hands for him for free being that they were an accident, he wasn't amused!

It honestly makes me ill! Thinking of all those poor puppies, which will like you previously said be sent to other homes just like this!
I couldn't even dream of putting any of my girls through such an ordeal, there is no thought from the owners as to what stress and illness it could cause to both mum and pups, but it's easy money for scum like that (sorry it just gets me so angry!)

NO words can cover what I think about this . When will people realise that animals are sentient beings and need care and love other things doing this is immoral.

WHAT!!!!!!?????
The greedy, selfish, money grabbing baskets with no thoughts for anything else other than lining there pockets full of cash!!!! I know we're in the middle of a credit crisis but this is definitely NOT not the way to go! Shame on the breeder and shame on the buyer for not doing their homework!

The 5 week old Shih tzu is bad enough (in fact, awful for such a small breed) but 3 1/2 weeks rottie....disgusting!  In fact, disgusted all round, not only by the 'breeders' but also the imbeciles who decide, on a whim, to buy not one, but 2 puppies and then are so moronic to take on some so young.  

It is true, the more I see of some humans the more I prefer my dogs :-(

Sad thing is this is just the tip of a huge iceberg.We try to educate Joe public,but as we know this often falls on deaf ears.I wonder what psychological issues these pups will end up with and whether indeed these will end up as another rescue/ rehome statistic.   :(

It's not just that, it is what kind of dogs will these be? Obviously not quality breeders, not quality matches, health tests etc will not have been done, who knows what issues these dogs will turn out to have, we have thousands of badly bred dogs in this country, thousands........... probably what pushed JH to do the PDE program in the first place.

Unfortunately it was so badly focussed on a few show breeders, and not on the thousands of people breeding who shouldn't even touch a dog, the message was completely lost and misunderstood.

A very serious overhaul needs to be done on who can and should breed, but no-one will listen, no-one will care until the dog population is on it's knees.

Just a note,has anyone received a survey via e mail from the RSPCA about breeders? I received one last week but the link didn't work,but have received a new link today.

*like*

well said Carrington lets hope JH is lurking and reads this.

Just a note,has anyone received a survey via e mail from the RSPCA about breeders? I received one last week but the link didn't work,but have received a new link today.

I was just going to post about this! I've just done it, the new link worked. They show you clips from PDE and blame everything on dogs being inbred. Not an awful lot of opportunity to have your say (cynical me thinks that is VERY deliberate!) but I managed to squeeze in that it isn't the show breeders that produce the sick dogs, it is the back yard breeders producing pets, and I listed every little thing that goes in my puppy pack etc and pointed out that OF COURSE I give puppy buyers lots of info as all GOOD breeders do this.

It doesn't bear thinking about what will happen to these dogs in the future, it's so sad that this is happening. There is so many wonderful breeders out there that do take great pride in their bitches and the pups. So why people feel the need to go to these backyard breeders is beyond me!
These people have no idea on breeding and health tests etc, iv owned dogs all my life and history goes back a very long way but I have never once had a litter! Just because even after all these years I don't feel educated enough on dog breeding! My dogs are my pets not money makers!! I wish other people would see it this way!!!!!

Well said, I too, got this survey and said basically the same thing.  How could BYB be policed and other expenses are just going to affect the breeders which are trying to better the breeds!!

What makes me wonders is how, as a family, you can decide on a breed in 1 day?  And then end up with 2 very different in size, needs and abilities.  What were those new owners thinking??

In the last week I have had 3 phone calls for a 'spaniel'.  After asking what one, springer or Cocker, I have been met with the answer, 'erm, dunno, doesn't really matter'!!!!!  EH, Are you mad!!  They are 2 different breeds with very different varities in size, needs, abilities, temprements!!!  God, some people make me so mad.  And she ended up going off on one cos I told her that she should have a serious discussion before phoning breeders as she didn't ahve any idea what she wanted!!  And I'm the baddie?  Honestly, no wonder BYB get so much business.  They couldn't care less who or where the puppies go to and some people shouldn't be getting a goldfish never mind a puppy!!

Come on Jemima Harrison, why don't you come on here and answer this?????

I love this statement!! So very true!

A visitor the other day commented that her dog would make a really nice stud for my older bitch. I looked at him and tried to be diplomatic lol

"Ah but I am really fussy about the stud dog I use. The pedigree has to fit really well with my bitches ancestors and all the health tests have to be done"
" He is pedigree, he just doesn't have any papers !! He is fine with health tests though because he always has his jabs on time"

I explained about the hundreds of pounds that I had spent on health tests, with more bills due for dna testing in the new year. The fact that I did over 400 mile round trip and spent hundreds of pounds on stud fees for my last litter. That was the wrong thing to say because the only bit that appeared to sink in was the hundreds of pounds stud fee !!! I expect to see that dog advertised at stud very soon lol
I also saw someone advertising their dog at stud - breed average hip scores is 13 - this dog was 45 and advertised at stud. Maybe they thought it was like an exam and greater was better haha

Sounds like my friend Sassinak, she keeps suggesting I should mate my (too young and not very good quality) bitch to her (not very good quality and unscanned) dog. I just go conveniently deaf. I'm still hoping to buy a really good potential bitch puppy in, as I don't think we really need any more average quality dog in my breed, so the only way I would ever even remotely consider breeding from her would be if she were old enough, scanned heart clear and 'A' type for SM, and I still had no leads whatsoever on anyone willing to sell a nice show potential puppy in 18 months. And then I would use a really good stud dog from a knowledgable breeder who I have studied the offspring of and decided that he tends to produce nice quality when mated to several different bitches.

http://www.nopuppymillscanada.ca/byb.htm

This is Canadian and also uses US statistics,a nd I see no reason to believe it is any different in the UK.

Sadly education will have a limited effect, as it is easy to see a Puppy farm with horrendous conditions and lots of dogs as bad, but less easy for the average person to see anything wrong with fluffy having a litter. 

They actually believe it is a better option to get a pup from a person such as themselves, just an ordinary dog owner, rather than someone who devotes a great deal of time, money and effort to their passion..

Brainless the link you highlighted says it all, what more can anyone say.

  

I'd like to know how to get through to potential owners and these 'casual' breeders that breeding has to be taken seriously, and done properly.

but then plenty of people are 'bred' that way and we see the results in society (I watch too much Jeremy Kyle ;) ), so why are we surprised that they think it's OK to be just as casual with our dogs.

I'd like to know how to get through to potential owners and these 'casual' breeders that breeding has to be taken seriously, and done properly.

There is only one way to stop these catastrophic bad breeding practices and over-breeding that goes on and that is for our Councils to make any kind of breeding with any animal only legal with a license, along with that license the KC accredited breeder scheme needs to be insisted upon so that healthy dogs are being produced along with a rubber stamp from the breed club geneticist dept concerning the chosen stud and bitch. That way everything is thought out and done properly.

Anyone breeding without a license or health tests or a line check for compatibility can then be fined a hefty fine '£2,000-£5,000' (it would need to be a hefty fine to stop the illegal breeders.)

I can't think of any other way, we can talk round and round in circles and always try to do our best to advise but the problem needs taking by the horns and putting in the hands of people who care about a breed and want what is best for it. For too many years this has not been happening, dogs are becoming over-populated, less healthy and gene pools are becoming smaller and smaller but not due to the hands of the responsible breeder, who truly are a minority.

But, I guess I'm talking to the wall, things will continue as always and all I can say is anyone looking for a pup to source good, responsible breeders.

I feel so sorry for the population of dog owners who either don't care where they get their dog from or will never be reached to understand the difference. :-(

There is only one way to stop these catastrophic bad breeding practices and over-breeding that goes on and that is for our Councils to make any kind of breeding with any animal only legal with a license, along with that license the KC accredited breeder scheme needs to be insisted upon so that healthy dogs are being produced along with a rubber stamp from the breed club geneticist dept concerning the chosen stud and bitch. That way everything is thought out and done properly.


Every Vehicle in the UK needs to be insured and taxed - yet there are still thousands of stolen, unlicensed, untaxed vehicles on our roads - this has been the case since licensing and tax came into effect.   There are supposed to be heavy penalties for doing so, yet still it carries on!

What makes you think that licensing breeders will make any difference?    Most puppy farmers are already licensed and look what THAT has done for pedigree dog breeding   The licenses aren't even enforced by the councils issuing them!

People will still flout the rules and get away with it whilst responsible breeders will have more costs and rules to follow on top of their own efforts to breed responsibly.  This would effectively stop many responsible people with genetically 'good' dogs from bothering to breed, thereby ensuring that fewer well bred dogs are available for purchase.  Making gene pools smaller in this manner is NOT gong to be good for any of the breeds in the long run :(  

As long as there are idiots prepared to buy a pup cheaply and without thought there will be those willing to supply them.    A campaign highlighting how bad this is and the number of dogs/pups currently being PTS because of irresponsible breeding and purchasing is likely to be far more effective. but it needs to be on the scale of 'THAT' programme to have any effect.

I too would like to know why Jemima Harrison has not had ANYTHING to say about the number of BYBs and Puppy Farmers churning out pups like disposable nappies.

Every Vehicle in the UK needs to be insured and taxed - yet there are still thousands of stolen, unlicensed, untaxed vehicles on our roads - this has been the case since licensing and tax came into effect.   There are supposed to be heavy penalties for doing so, yet still it carries on!

That is getting far better now though with technology, and area spot checks, with camera's etc drivers like this won't get away with anything soon enough.

What makes you think that licensing breeders will make any difference?    Most puppy farmers are already licensed and look what THAT has done for pedigree dog breeding   The licenses aren't even enforced by the councils issuing them!

That is the problem. :-) It is not taken seriously, at present a puppy farmer is one fining, one location, the fine is laughable compared to the money they make, which I guess is why councils kind of feel what is the point, but they should, and they should uphold their rules. Some of the rules are there, the law is there, it needs drastically updating and as you say enforcing.

Councils are strapped for cash we hear that constantly, they could make an absolute mint fining everyone who breeds a dog without a license along with a tip off line, which has worked great for the DHSS (or whatever it is called now) and the DLA. With amendments adhering to the KCABS even puppy farmers would have stricter rulings too and perhaps be clamped down harder on if it is a full time dept dealing with thousands of others at the same time.

They do need upholding but if it became law (with the extra inclusions I mentioned) councils would make a fortune, it would help the community along with the dog population. Win, win from my point of view. :-)

I know there will always be unlicensed and unregistered breeders but if it were taken seriously and fortunately money talks, if councils truly saw the potential of funds, maybe it would be taken seriously.

I wish everyone were as particular about their breeds.

Within the last week a 2 and a half year old maiden bitch of a not-uncommon gundog breed was advertised for sale on several "free ad" websites as "ideal for breeding". The only qualification for this assertion being, apparently, that she was not spayed, was due in season and is of a breed often crossed with others to make "designer" crosses.  No mention of health (of any sort!) no showing or field trials record. 

If I could have sorted out the logistics quickly enough I'd have been sorely tempted to buy her - keep her safe during her season, and have her spayed thereafter.  I hope whoever bought her will treat her properly and not abuse her as a puppy factory.

Despite most members of this site upholding good practice there are some adverts in the breeders section which specifically say that the puppies are especially for breeding. The one I spotted is from the most numerically popular section with the only stated attribute of the parents being that they are from a good breeding line!

Wrong on so  many levels there are too many points for me to pick up on and whinge about. I just feel sad for the puppies who are the defenceless creatures in this. Why are humans so selfish and idiotic??!!!!

My hubby has a friend who i have to bite my tongue round now.

He has a staff X bitch 12, a very badly bred unneutered staff, all spindly legs no weight, no sense and no papers, let alone health tests. Who for the past 6 months I have been saying have you had him 'done' yet? errr no its a shame its his manhood!!!!

now the scenario is daughter got a staff pup given to her at 6 weeks old off a 'friend' because she wanted a puppy......with a 12 month old baby and a tenth floor flat = pup on balcony all day and smacked for nipping at the baby. Now pup is at mom and dads house, and am now being told that they will let her have pups off manky stud dog and make themselves some money. So the circle starts again........unknowledgeable people breeds poor dogs who end up in poor homes and get bred again, it will never stop because who would enforce the laws to stop it?

i lost my temper and was told to chill when i confronted them about how many staff, staff x are bred, in homes and being PTS.
they also suggested that they would buy 1 of my BTs when i breed my girl.......errrr no you bloody well won't mate not in a month of sundays friend of the family or not!!