Hi,

Sorry if i am reposting! Slightly confused as to how to prevent it in my dog. He is a 2 year old collie..  We gave him milbimax last year, age 6mths, 9mths, 12mths and it was the last time i noticed that there was a correlation, he was having diareah with blood in it. The first time he ended up at the vets because he wasnt eating (given probiotic and specialist food which didnt help, so a dog breeder friend suggested rice and chicken), second time i controlled it with rice and chicken, finally after the 3rd time i refuse to give it him. Now because most the vets in my town push milbimax, and tell me it wasnt the milbimax  even though the leaflet says it can cause adverse reaction in collies, i dont trust them. They have given Advocat, but the once i used it, he was poorly from that, big skin infection, with hair falling out  mainly around the application point (vet verdict again not the medication)  i am stumped as to what to do... We usually give him frontline and drontal, but because we have had a massive slug and snail infestation in our garden (my poor plants) and i have a dog that loves to eat grass, i am super scared that he might have got lungworm! And the stories online are very scary. He was last wormed on the 1st of August with drontal plus!

I am just wondering how to go about dosing him... On the pack it says 1ml per 2kg (11ml) for 7 days! Online it says different, and i also wonder whether treating him like that will cover all the other worms, or do i need to do his drontal in a couple weeks as normal. And also how often do i need to give it him to protect him.

Ideally i was hoping the worming regime to be every 3 months with drontal in the winter months, and every 3 months with the panacur in the summer months (when the slugs and snails come out to play) and a drontal somewhere inbetween... He has never had worms or fleas, i try to keep up to date with it especially now that i am pregnant, but with vets pushing products that sponsor them, i dont feel like i can trust them!  Any input on how to do this is much appreciated!!

thanks
Hermina

I have Collies and wouldn't have Milbemax in the house! 

And I never use Advocat.  If your boy never has worms or fleas, then I would not dose him so often.

Yes, use Panacur for lungworm, at the recommended dose below-

For the control of lungworm Oslerus (Filaroides) osleri in dogs administer 1 ml Panacur 10% Liquid per 2 kg bodyweight for 7 consecutive days (= 50 mg fenbendazole/kg bodyweight daily for 7 days). A repeat course of treatment may be required in some cases.

The above is taken from the Canine Chemist website.

I would only worm your boy every 6 months.  In a year, one of those would be Drontal for me, the other Panacur.  Having left my Collies for a year with no wormers, and then taking faecal samples, which showed no worms whatsoever, I see no need to fill them full of chemicals.

Advocate is the only wormer licensed for the prevention of lungworm angiostrongylus vasorum - the lungworm advertised on tv and in vets surgeries and the one to be most concerned about. It must be used monthly if you live in a lungworm area and/or there have been definite infections or deaths in your area.
Worming to prevent this lungworm is a whole different ball game to the usual worming regime - it has to be done every single month without fail. It does seem that the younger the dog, the more likely they are to die from this, most probably because of immature immune system and more likely to investigate/lick/chew or pick up stuff that has been 'slimed' or the slugs and snails themselves. Toys, water/food bowls etc shouldn't be left in the garden. Poo should be picked up regularly and a nightly slug patrol should help too!

Your vet is wrong to give milbemax to your breed, some can be fine with it and some won't ( I think there is now a blood test to see if a dog carries the gene involved) and he shouldn't dismiss the adverse reactions to previous wormers - in fact they should report it to the manufacturers. If you have lost faith in your vet, you should really think about changing to one that is prepared to discuss the options and reasons to use one wormer over another.

Panacur has been given for my girl as she has started to react to Advocate after a year of monthly use- reactions of very laboured breathing, lethargy, coughing. The reaction time fell from a week to 12 hrs after dosing over a 3 month period - I didn't put two and two together until the 2nd month, did it once more to confirm! My vet confirmed my worries and changed wormer ( we had taken Eve to the vet with the 1st reaction, not realising then what or why it was happening - she was given tablets to help her breathing) She is now wormed monthly with Panacur as a preventative. Once a year she will be wormed on the 'treatment' dose over a period of 7 days, more often if she developes excercise intolerance, extra coughing etc though I will most likely have fecal samples taken. She is milbemaxed twice yearly.
My boy is still on Advocate with no problems and is milbemaxed twice yearly.

Some may think this is an over the top worming regime, but, having lost my young boy last year to lungworm having missed 1 months treatment, holding him while his lungs filled with blood and he bled from his nose and mouth, crying into his fur as he was pts - I will do all I can to prevent another death .

Read all you can on lungworm, find out if your area is affected, speak to other collie owners in your situation, and try to keep your garden as slug unfriendly as possible - clear leaves, poo and places they may hole up for the day! :-)

I learned in a Vet Nurse magazine that there is more than one species of lungworm already in this country; the one that Advocate controls is the most common but it's ideal to test the dog to discover which variety its infected with to be able to treat it most effectively.

because we have had a massive slug and snail infestation in our garden (my poor plants) and i have a dog that loves to eat grass

Up until this year we also had a massive slug and snail population :(  Wettest Wales is the slug capital of the UK :(

Then last year I discovered NEMASLUG - it comes as a powder you water in  and then gets to work killing the slugs, which die underground :)   I only used it once last year and things were a bit better, so this year I ordered two packs and treated twice with a follow up of organic pellets which I hand-feed to any slugs I see <evil grin>    that way there aren't any pellets for the dogs to eat ;)

In addition I have been collecting every snail I can find and throwing them on the shed roof for the birds to eat.   I hardly have any snails now and see only the occasional slug :-D

Now that I have fewer slugs, I plan to use the Organic Pellets to keep it that way, starting as soon as the temperature gets above 5C in the spring ;)

Friends of mine just snip the slugs in half   but I can't bear that after trying it once :(  and other friends collect them on a spike and leave it where the birds will take them (need a puking smiley)

If you can reduce the slug and snail population then you'll have a safer garden for the dogs and better plants too ;)

Thanks guys! We have started him on panacur (day 2) he is a fit and healthy dog, im probably being paranoid!! I worry about the slug pellets as im trying the whole organic food thing, so i was trying to grow my own no pesticide, no insecticide food.. but next year i will probably use the pellets, its horrible, i counted 5 on 1 leaf of the runner beans!! Bleugh!!! The dog doesn't seem to be interested in them, he just likes to eat the grass!!!! I think he is  sheep dog, that thinks he might be a sheep :)

Special Precautions and Warnings
Studies with milbemycin oxime indicate that the margin of safety in certain dogs of Collie or related breeds is less than in other breeds. In these dogs, the recommended dose should be strictly observed.
The tolerance of MILBEMAX in young puppies from these breeds has not been investigated.
Your vet should have known this.

I read that same thing to them, and the response was "we gave him the exact dose, youre probably not feeding him correctly" (he was on iams)

When it comes to milbimax in our town of the 15 vets i called asking about its safety in collies, only one said it shouldnt be given to collies, 6 said that as long as the dose is correct it was fine, and 3 changed their mind about giving it him when i told them how he reacted to it.. The rest used other products!! I was angry and getting ready to take my vet to court for the vets bills we had coz of it, so had to do my research!!

Sorry when it comes to milbimax i am still livid, even a year on, because it just seems that vets dont care about the animals, they care about their pharmaceutical sponsorships!! Im glad my dog didnt die because of their greed, and now i do my research on any medication he needs to take!!! 

I worry about the slug pellets as im trying the whole organic food thing

The organic pellets are safe for organic gardening - we've started this year and despite the terrible weather here have managed to harvest veggies to eat :-D   I would be careful with the use and storage around animals and children despite them suppposedly being safe though ;)     This is why I hand feed the slugs so that there's nothing left over for inquisitive dogs to scoff ;)  

Hand feed slugs -love it ! My father used home brew left overs ...very successfully.I think as far as products that are unsafe for certain breeds I have always erred on the side of caution having owned a few breeds that react to odd things.....research mostly.There is always a variance between vets .trouble is finding one that treats you as an owner /breeder , with respect , and one prepared to discuss  alternatives.

> There is always a variance between vets .trouble is finding one that treats you as an owner /breeder , with respect , and one prepared to discuss&nbsp; alternatives.

Yes I have found this to be a real problem, so tending to avoid the larger practises where you don't get to see the same person twice.

What I have found is that Australian New Zealand and South African vets are so much better in this regard.  They seem very happy to admit they are not omnipotent.  Why do the UK trained ones need to preserve their proffesional mystique?

If not sure of something will do more research and get back to me etc, and treat me the owner breeder as a thinking and knowledgeable in my own are of expertise.

One very nice South African vet has rung me for advice re export arrangements for a client (I was able to advise who I used and what the benefits were versus doing ti all yourself).

We had a New Zealand vet  do the bloods on our hens , ducks and cockerel Rocky ,as our  own vet wasn't on the 'bird 'panel ..  I held the cockerel ,and held on leg out for the needle, but it was just like Rod Hull and Emu .....so funny.