I really don't want to start a panic but my OH has just let me know that his friend has had to have his 8yr old dog pts because of Parvo. His friend lives in our village. Apparently a new strain. All my dogs are up to date with their jabs but if it's a new strain then what use is last years boosters to them. I'm worried sick and vets are closed until Monday and i don't want to phone their emergency number for advice for what they might see as trivial.

I had this same problem last year, I rang my vets and they said it's not a new strain of parvovirus it's people that don't get there dogs vaccinated and pass it to each other. So that's where it comes from, if your dog is up to date on all jabs then it will be fine! I know how you feel as I was worried sick! Hope this helps xx

We have had the same in our area, there have been quite a few cases but the dogs that died were young and hadn't had any vacs. Still i  changed where i exercise my dogs just to be safe!

Many moons ago before i got any of my current dogs i bought a terrier from rescue. Sadly within three days of her being with us she died of Parvo despite the rescue kennels giving me her jab cards. I had unwittingly done two rounds of the kennels & patted most of the dogs when i went to pick her out, so i dread to think what other dogs i may have passed it on to during that visit. The virus scares the life out of me and i hope and pray i never see it in any of my dogs.

My first Ridgie got parvo at 5 months, despite having been innoculated. We so very nearly lost her - luckily she was tubby before she got it!

>if your dog is up to date on all jabs then it will be fine!

This statement is NOT correct.  A friend lost a 2 year old, fully vaccinated Rottie with parvo.

The breed is one of the worst to suffer, even when vaccinated.  Which seems totally unfair, but it is a true fact.

I own rotts and have done all my life and I've never known this?

there are articles on the internet. I don't know if there has been actual scientific investigation. examples:
http://workingdogs.com/parvofaq.htm#Will_Dog_Die

Are some breeds more susceptible than others?
For some reason, Rottweilers, Doberman Pinschers, and other black and tan breeds are especially prone to Parvo, and seem to succumb to parvo faster and with less chance of recovery than any other breed. If you have one of these breeds, it's even more important to make certain your puppy or dog gets immunized properly. But these breeds are not alone -- the Parvovirus can affect all breeds.

http://www.roevalleyvets.co.uk/vaccinations.htm
Canine Parvovirus
Another virus infection which appeared suddenly throughout the world in the 1960's when it was characterised by acute and fatal heart failure in young puppies. It now takes the form of an acute gastro-enteritis, with severe vomiting and passing of blood in the stools. It is highly contagious, and usually fatal. Black and tan breeds such as Rottweilers and Dobermanns appear to have a higher risk of contracting this virus.

http://www.pet-informed-veterinary-advice-online.com/vaccination-failure.html
To use one common example: animals with black and tan coloration (dobermanns, rottweilers and mastiff/Staffordshire bull terrier types) have always been considered more prone to parvovirus infection than other breeds. Vets have even resorted to 2-weekly vaccine protocols and vaccinations up to 20 weeks of age to try to protect them. Some will still get parvo regardless. The assumption is made that either their immune system is particularly poor at inducing a preventative immune response towards this virus or their maternal immunity (see point 4) lasts an inordinately long time.

A friend had her year old fully vaccinated Rottie die of Parvo.

Strange? It's a virus when all said and done, I can't see it making a difference in the colour or breed of dog? The only thing I can think of is rotts, dobes, and other large breed dogs have a very high pain threshold and maybe before they start showing fatal signs of parvo it's too late to do anything? I don't know but it's like saying cancer or other fatal diseases are more common in dark skinned people than any other. If you look at it like that it doesn't make sense. But thanks anyway, I'm seeing my vet tomorrow so will find out more about this.

>I don't know but it's like saying cancer or other fatal diseases are more common in dark skinned people than any other. If you look at it like that it doesn't make sense.

Some races of people are genetically more susceptible to various conditions than others though; sickle-cell anaemia is virtually unknown in Caucasian races, for example. In dogs it's well-known that Bernese and boxers are more prone to developing cancer than other breeds, so a higher susceptibility to a virus isn't beyond the bounds of possibility.

> Strange? It's a virus when all said and done, I can't see it making a difference in the colour or breed of dog?

I don't know the reasons why but it could be the gene that causes the black and tan colouration also causes the susceptibility to Parvo. There are other plenty of similar examples of different breeds having different breed specific problems. eg Collies being intolerant on Ivermectin. Dalmatians have urinary problems. Bedlingtons and copper toxicosis which is an autoimmune disease.

> it's like saying cancer or other fatal diseases are more common in dark skinned people than any other. If you look at it like that it doesn't make sense

But that does happen in dogs. Flatties have a higher incidence of cancer than other breeds. And other breeds are more prone to other problems. Look at GSDs. they have lots of diseases and conditions that are more common in them than other breeds. There are plenty of examples of breed specific problems so why not colur specific ones. Actually white dogs are more likely to be deaf so that is another colour specific problem. We really have no way of knowing what genes are linked and cause problems.

Yes but cancer is a disease parvo is a virus. I can understand that different breeds can get different diseases. But when it comes to sayin black and tan colouration has more chance of catching this virus I find it very hard to believe.
Iv just spoken to my mum who has over 40 years exp in dogs and she said it's an absolute load of rubbish!

>Canine Parvovirus
>Another virus infection which appeared suddenly throughout the world in the 1960's

That's not right; it first appeared, suddenly throughout the world, in 1978, and there was no vaccine available; vets could only use a feline vaccine on dogs in a desperate bid to stop the epidemic that was wiping out whole litters and even adult dogs.

>cancer is a disease parvo is a virus.

Actually cancer is a condition (you can't catch it from someone) and parvo is a disease (it can be transmitted).

>But when it comes to sayin black and tan colouration has more chance of catching this virus I find it very hard to believe.

As white coloration is linked to susceptibility to certain conditions it's not that hard to believe that black and tan coloration might be linked to a susceptibility, due to immune-deficiency, to a particular type of virus.

Exactly my point "might" there is no solid evidence to prove this is correct. But I can honestly say I don't believe a word of it, so in theory what your saying is, if there is a dog with this virus and u let it mix with other breeds in the park rotts included that they are the ones that are going to come down with it rather than the other breeds? It's a load of rubbish.

No, I think they're saying that those breeds seem to be more likely to be affected, and possibly be more badly affected.

I honestly don't believe it. Rotties can suffer with bad hips because of their size, they can't be more prone to a disease because of the colour of their coat!

It was a study by "Nelson, Richard W.;Couto, C. Guillermo (1998). Small Animal Internal Medicine (2nd ed.). Mosby. ISBN 0-8151-6351-7" that found a connection.

There's a suggestion that poodles are less likely than other breeds to suffer from parvo. Curious how genes affect the immune system.

American! Say no more!

That's a bit racist! Americans can be just as good scientists as Brits; in fact it's an American university that is the acknowledged world centre of excellence for uroliths, and all bladder stones removed from UK dogs are sent there for investigation.

I'm not being racist I'm just sayin Americans are renowned for blowing things out of proportion and making a big song and dance

> I honestly don't believe it. Rotties can suffer with bad hips because of their size, they can't be more prone to a disease because of the colour of their coat!

I am not trying to force anyone to believe something they don't want to. I only know if my breed had  a higher than normal incidence of something I would want to know so I could watch for signs and maybe start treatment earlier. I am glad you have never come across this and I hope you neverdo.

I didn't mean to put disease there I meant virus. I could understand if it was a disease but not a virus I think that's just a little far fetched tbh!

It is a very great shame that you have joined a site with hundreds of years worth of experience to just be argumentative.

Not believing it is your choice, even if you would be far better off if you were more open minded.  It is surprising, given your families great experience of the breed, that you have no knowledge of the deaths of Rotties due to parvo.  Although, of course, your vet will be able to reassure you that it is all true.

>But thanks anyway, I'm seeing my vet tomorrow so will find out more about this.

Please do come back and let us know what he says.  We always like people to follow up, as it helps other people gain knowledge.

I'd not heard of it either, nor had I read it in any Rottie breed books, however my vet is very well versed on things going on and actually mentioned this to me. Its something i'm keeping a close eye on as they recommended that all Rottie pups should be on a 3 course vaccine programme rather than the normal 2.

I've not read any of the links posted above but will do as I think its only right to learn and get a balanced view on things..

Look I'm not being argumentative, I'm allowed to voice my oppinion which is what I'm doing. Are rotties a breed that you own or ever had? There is no solid evidence to prove any of what you are saying. And until there is I will still feel exactly the same.

Just out of interest, what would you consider to be 'solid evidence'?

Well you mentioned this American vet earlier that had supposed to have found a "link" so what link was this? And has it been scientifically proven??? I suppose it has a lot to do with the area you live too. If there is a lot of dogs which are not vaccinated then yes I'm sure it can happen with new strains of the virus.
And just to give feedback one of my friends is a vet and I have just spoke to her to see if she had heard this before, and she informed me that in all her time being a vet she has never had a lot of the same breed with parvo including Rottweilers she said it can happen to any dog at any age no matter what breed.

>Well you mentioned this American vet earlier that had supposed to have found a "link" so what link was this? And has it been scientifically proven???

For that you'd need to read the study for yourself; after all, if I owned a black-and-tan breed I'd certainly want to find out more.

Well iv never had a problem with rotts and iv owned them for years, it's the first time iv ever heard this. And if my vet friend has said the exact same as me then I'm still happy to believe it

I have a friend who lives about half the year here, and the other half in France, Parvo rife there at mo with lots of dogs dying. I wonder if they arent as good with vaccinating as we are here?

>Well iv never had a problem with rotts and iv owned them for years, it's the first time iv ever heard this. And if my vet friend has said the exact same as me then I'm still happy to believe it

That's fair enough. But I've never personally, over several decades of owning multiple dogs, had an adverse vaccine reaction nor have any of my friends. But since I started working for a vet 5 years ago there have been a couple, so I know they exist, despite my personal experience. Vets can't be expected to keep up with all the vagaries of different breeds - that's for the specialists!

Probably, it's just the same as different towns and cities in the uk I suppose

Sounds an interesting and quite plausible possibility to me.

Having been involved in studies (from a non scientific pov) regarding viruses such as H5N1, H1N1 to name but two, and my laymans understanding of a virus is that it will continually mutate to make it's own passage/spread to other hosts easier.

Alopecia, whilst not a virus, does seem to affect dilute coat colors more vigorously, that's basically down to DNA isn't it?

Soooo.. with CPV being a DNA virus, couldn't the same be true for CPV and certain coat colours?

To get right into the science behind this is a bit beyond my comprehension, (getting into the whole business of the nucleus, single stranded DNA, double stranded DNA, virology... aagh!!) but I do have a basic understanding and find it quite fascinating.

Hmmm..think I need to answer my own questions :) 

Shall look further into this with interest.
If nothing else, these types of threads throw up some interesting questions :)

Just a thought JG but has it not been proved that at least some cancers are caused by a virus and that being the case it could be that the connection between coat colour and susceptibility to infection has been proven in more than one way.

>has it not been proved that at least some cancers are caused by a virus

That's certainly true, thinking about cervical cancer in particular; it's a fascinating train of thought linking coat colour/pattern with susceptibility to illness (double merle is a classic example) and would make a very interesting study.

CDA aswell.  Though CDA is an illness rather than virus of course....

Totally anecdotal i know, but everytime i see Animal cops the dogs that they show with parvo all seem to be of a black coat variety!

This is really weird.  I had never heard of this until today as well, until I read this thread in the morning. 

Later I went to a seminar on Dog genetics with Dr Jeff Samson and, low and behold, he mentioned in passing about how rotties were resistant to innoculations and commonly suffered from compromised immune systems .....so I wonder if this is why they are prone to parvo????

http://www.futurevows.com/doc/AdvancedMedicine/Canine%20diabetes%20mellitus.pdf

If you look on this article on page 7 it briefly mentions it.

If you ever get the chance to attend a seminar with Jeff I would recommend it.  Was very interesting, although it raised some worrying issues, such as the problems with rotties, which have been caused by strong line/in breeding.  I will def be trying to find out more.

Just a point  a disease , condition ,illness is a description. viruses or bacteria are the causes of those things among others factors.eg environmental
As Jg said some cancers in particular cervical cancer (cause hpv ) are caused by viruses.
I havent read the whole post in detail but could it be that statistaical certaiin breeds/colours are more prone and the reasons are yet to be discovered. Maybe the coatcolour is red herring
Just read penfolds post... that makes sense

>Having been involved in studies (from a non scientific pov) regarding viruses such as H5N1, H1N1 to name but two

Blimey, that rings a bell!!   Remember when they found the swan in Scotland?  I will never forget receiving a text quite late on a Friday night, asking if I would like to be in Scotland!  I was actually on holiday, down at my caravan!  We still get suspects, even now, but glad to say that they are never positive!

> As white coloration is linked to susceptibility to certain conditions it's not that hard to believe that black and tan coloration might be linked to a susceptibility, due to immune-deficiency, to a particular type of virus.

Let's look at this logically. The black-and-tan gene that gives Rotties and Dobes their colouring is a(t).

The same gene is also present in a number of other breeds - Beauceron, Min Pin, Manchester Terrier, Lancashire Heelers.... also found in Cockers, English Springers, Bull Terriers (not pure Staffies though!) and many many others; in some it is present but often with the tan diluted by another gene, e.g Salukis, Afghans and very likely Schnauzers. Most Tricolour dogs, like Cavaliers, have the same gene as well.

I believe some GSDs have the gene (although it is not the same as what GSD folk call 'black and tan') and when molecular research was done a few years ago, a few Belgian Shepherds were found to have a(t) as well.

In conclusion - it's a very common and widespread gene in dogs through pedigrees and mongrels alike.

I would like to see a proper evaluation of the a(t) gene versus parvo susceptibility in all those breeds before coming to a decision. Otherwise I would be inclined to think it was familial, that is, limited to certain lines and/or related individuals.

It may be total coincidence that a high number of black and tan dogs have had parvo. Travellers dogs often go down with Parvo - and as these are commonly lurchers with greyhound/whippet/collie/other sighthound ancestry, I am sure if you did a quick poll among vet surgeries the answer would be that more NON black-and-tan dogs than black-and-tan are admitted.

>I am sure if you did a quick poll among vet surgeries the answer would be that more NON black-and-tan dogs than black-and-tan are admitted.

That would be because there are simply more non-b/t dogs in than b/t dogs in the general population. The question is are proportionately more affected?

> That would be because there are simply more non-b/t dogs in than b/t dogs in the general population. The question is are proportionately more affected?

I've just had a look at some very recent data (August this year, 2011) which shows that dogs previously called "saddle tan" (as in GSDs, Airedales and some other terriers, most hounds including Beagles and Bassets) are also a(t) which has been determined at molecular level. So there are an awful lot of a(t) dogs out there!

http://homepage.usask.ca/~schmutz/agouti.html#tricolor
http://jhered.oxfordjournals.org/content/102/Suppl_1/S11.full

That may well be so, but how would their colour be reported?

> That may well be so, but how would their colour be reported?

I'm not entirely clear what you mean by that, but if it's what I think, then you would know better than I, as you know what gets put down on a dog's records at the vet as to colour, which then may or may not become data in a study for the link to certain coat colour and susceptibility to Parvo.

With regard to the possible link of black-and-tan coat colouring to greater Parvo susceptibility, I think the data in the links proves there cannot be a genuine link. Has it ever been said that all Gordon Setters and Bernese MDs are similarly susceptible? Not only that but the new research shows that the same gene that produces the black-and-tan in Rotties and Dobes also gives the colouring in B&T GSDs, Welsh Terriers, also tricolour in Foxhounds, Beagles, Bassets and many others. If it were truly that the black & tan gene does confer less resistance then surely we would be hearing that Gordon Setters are also more prone, or black-and-tan dachshunds, or non-sable GSDs, or BMDs.

There is actually quite an interesting list of breeds that have been found to have a(t) present, some you would never suspect - and some genes also mask it, ee for instance, so you could have Hungarian Vizlas that are also black-and-tan having two copies of the gene, but aren't black and tan to look at because the ee (yellow) is masking it.

>I'm not entirely clear what you mean by that, but if it's what I think, then you would know better than I, as you know what gets put down on a dog's records at the vet as to colour, which then may or may not become data in a study for the link to certain coat colour and susceptibility to Parvo.

What gets put down is what the, possibly totally dog-unsavvy person, guesses from the dog's outward appearance. (I recently had to correct a Landseer Newfoundland's description from 'black and white', for example.) It certainly won't be a genetic description. 'Black and tan' would be the classic dobermann, rottie, gordon setter, Lancashire heeler colour and pattern; a GSD might be put as 'brown with black back'.

> It certainly won't be a genetic description. 'Black and tan' would be the classic dobermann, rottie, gordon setter, Lancashire heeler colour and pattern; a GSD might be put as 'brown with black back'.

Yup, I'm with you :)
However on the flipside, if a particular breed (regardless of colour) was suspected of having a weakness to Parvo, the breed itself would surely start to be talked about? A huge number of Foxhounds and Beagles have the a(t) gene but I've not heard it said either are prone to the virus.... and in the days when we had many hunt packs that meant an awful lot of dogs. I'm sure hunt kennels would have noticed if only dogs of a certain colour in their packs caught Parvo.

> I've just had a look at some very recent data (August this year, 2011) which shows that dogs previously called "saddle tan" (as in GSDs, Airedales and some other terriers, most hounds including Beagles and Bassets) are also a(t) which has been determined at molecular level. So there are an awful lot of a(t) dogs out there!

No-one has said that it is the gene that causes the black and tan colour that causes the susceptibility to parvo. Only that some black and tan dogs dogs such as Rotties and dobes seem to be more prone to it. There could easily be another gene that Rotties and Dobes have that causes the sensitivity that other dogs with the black and tan gene don't have. there are so many genes and we know what so few of them do.

Correlation does not imply causation