I have got my goldens from the same breeder for the last 20years but about 3 years ago she gave up breeding. I bought a golden a couple of years ago from what I thought was a responsible breeder, the bitch was from 'my' breeder. This person seemed very fussy about who had one of the pups and I made no secret of the fact that if everything was okay I might want to breed in the future. My golden has had hips and elbows done with good results and I've been in touch with the breeder to ask for the ban on progeny to be lifted.

This is where the problem lies. Since paying for and taking the puppy the breeder has not replied to any contact, not just from myself but also from others who had a pup from the litter. Any advice on what I can do or should I just turn up on the doorstep to get a reply?

> Since paying for and taking the puppy the breeder has not replied to any contact, not just from myself but also from others who had a pup from the litter

Did you have a contract with your 2nd breeder agreeing that they would lift the endorsement if their health test and other criteria was met?  Could you send a Recorded Delivery letter saying that you've had difficulty making contact but giving them the information they might need.  Presumably they haven't moved in the meantime!

Alternatively is your original breeder still in touch with them?  From your post I understand that she bred their bitch.  It might be worth asking if she is wiling to make contact on your behalf.

You could just turn up but it might be worth working through some other options first just to make sure you've made every effort.  Perhaps if you try everything, email, telephone call, letter etc they soon get the message that you want to talk! :)   It's very rude to ignore you

Did you and the breeder both sign an agreement at the time of purchase to say that you understood that there were breeding endorsements in place? If this wasn't done, you need to contact the K.C. and ask them to lift the endorsement. If it was done, it is a more difficult situation. Perhaps do as suggested and try to go through the decent breeder that you bought from in the past.

they could well have moved, so contact the Kennel club and see if they will either confirm that they are at the same address according to their records or if they have changed address if they would pass on a letter from you.

If you made no secret of the fact you were intending to breed then she could have had the option to not endorse that particular pup at the time of registering?
I'd not have personally taken the pup without the restriction being lifted prior to taking it home as theres always the potential for problems later on down the line if they don't think its a fit specimen of the breed for instance?
If you got it in writing then you have grounds with the KC for removal i would have thought?

Most litters are registered and endorsed before their quality is even assessed as promising. 

A lot can happen between a puppy going home and reaching adulthood that would make it unsuitable for breeding.  Poor health test results, temperament, unsoundness etc.

I and may breeders endorse the whole litter, I have more than once forgotten to lift the endorsement on my won bitch when I have wanted to register her litter, and had to send in a letter in order that the registrations could be processed.

>I'd not have personally taken the pup without the restriction being lifted prior to taking it home as theres always the potential for problems later on down the line if they don't think its a fit specimen of the breed for instance?

That's exactly the reason why endorsements are placed; the most promising swan can turn into a duck on maturity! If the endorsements have been lifted then the breeder has no means of protecting 'their' puppy.

To the OP: has the breeder moved, or even died?

>I'd not have personally taken the pup without the restriction being lifted prior to taking it home

And any reputable breeder would have refused you.  Why would anyone lift restrictions until they were sure the dog was suitable for breeding?

Like most on here, I restrict each and every litter.  Even the pups that I decide to keep.  This is the responsible thing to do.  Most breeders would not have sold you a pup, with that sort of ultimatum.

It would depend entirely on the OPs integrity and seeing as the op has been in the breed for 20yrs plus i personally would accept this as it seemed she had a good relationship with her previous breeder that would have vouched for her. I'm not talking about a new person with designs on breeding but one with obvious knowledge and experience. I wouldn't waste my time on breeding an inferior bitch with or without restrictions but if it were a good specimen OR a good foundation bitch for instance i would like to know the option was there from the outset and wouldn't want to be messing about like the OP has been..

>i would like to know the option was there from the outset

Then you will do a lot of searching.  It is most definitely not the norm, however many years you have had dogs.

Well if you have a good relationship with the people in your breed then no i wouldn't do alot of searching as i would hope my integrity would speak for itself however i know what you mean for instance in protecting your own line, perhaps the OP 'wrongly' presumed the same and as such finds herself in this position? Afterall she did make her intentions clear from the outset.. But then i wouldn't expect the people i know in the breed to go back on the deal either 'if' the conditions were right..

I'm not talking about a new person with designs on breeding but one with obvious knowledge and experience. I wouldn't waste my time on breeding an inferior bitch with or without restrictions but if it were a good specimen OR a good foundation bitch for instance i would like to know the option was there from the outset and wouldn't want to be messing about like the OP has been..

We'd all need crystal balls then to know the future outcome of hip scores, eye tests etc! There is no way on earth I'd sell a pup not endorsed where health testing was vital. I even sold an endorsed pup to somebody who had been in the breed decades longer than myself, and I knew from day one that she may want to breed from the bitch. She had no problems whatsoever with the pup being endorsed until hip scoring and eye testing was done with good results, plus that the bitch was of good enough quality in both looks and temperament once fully mature.

I don't have any problem with a bitch being endorsed at all, we've all got to start somewhere and one persons interpretation of a good specimen of the breed is anothers if they are intent on protecting their line.. I don't see the argument 'if' you have a good relationship say with your 'mentor' and you knew that person well enough who you knew would protect your line also. But like i said i would hope ones integrity would speak for oneself in that decision and obviously the OP presumed the same and has found otherwise.. the formality of endorsement would be hindsight in that respect.. (i'm not taking endorsements lightly far from it they are there for a reason and in the OPs case shes done all the relevant health tests to adequate results)

Sorry mygirl I'm yet another who will not remove the restriction until all health tests are done and until I can see that the dog in question meets with the standard of the breed, no matter how much I knew the person.

My pups go endorsed ... no matter who. I need to know that all health tests are ok before I will lift an endorsement, besides other things. My own pup I bred is endorsed & I belive I have exceptional integrity :)

To the OP - why not turn up on the doorstep. Heck, my puppy owners usually do and delighted to see them I am ... unless I'm having an untidy day :-O Could always say you'd tried to get in touch but as you were in the area. I would suggest checking address still valid if you can first, specially if a long way away. Have you googled them? There's an alarming amount of info available ... Even down to finding when a house was lost sold (& price it went for :-o ).

I've been in my breed a couple of decades longer than the breeder of my current puppy, but I'm quite happy that she's endorsed and if (a BIG if!) I want to have a litter from her then her breeder and I have agreed that we'll discuss the options when the time comes and we see how she's turned out.

I agree with the others. I have a bitch here that is hopefully going to be my next breeding bitch. I got her from a friend, the 2nd pup she has given me. I would have been horrified if she hadn't put endorsements on her when I got her. We can't tell if she is going to be good enough to breed on from and this saves any stock going into the gene pool that have serious health problems. It's BECAUSE she is a friend that I am reassured that she will lift the endorsement if/when the time comes. It reassures me.

All my dogs have had the endorsements which I'm quite happy about, that's never been a problem. I would just like to get the endorsement removed for this one but haven't had any reply from the breeder since 1 month after I bought the pup home. It'
s always been my way to keep my breeder in touch with my pup's life through to old age and that's what I started with this new one but it's very much a one way street.

I have nothing in writing, just a conversation we had, I tend to trust people and now I'm stuck.

I have nothing in writing, just a conversation we had, I tend to trust people and now I'm stuck.

If you didn't sign anything the KC will lift it.

If you didn't sign anything the KC will lift it.

Oh, I thought only the breeder could lift it.

Oh, I thought only the breeder could lift it.

That is so if the breeder can prove it was discussed with you and is also in the contract which you have signed. If no contract or written document is signed by you to say you know the bitch is endorsed and you understood what that meant then the KC will lift it.

> Oh, I thought only the breeder could lift it.

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/365

In attempt to lessen the Kennel Club's involvement in what is essentially a private dispute, the Kennel Club will apply the following criterion when assessing whether or not an endorsement should be lifted, as per Kennel Club regulation B12. Written confirmation must be obtained from the new owner at the time of sale to state that they have been made aware of any proposed endorsements, even if the endorsed registration certificate is given at the time of sale. In the event of a dispute where such evidence exists, the Kennel Club would normally decide in favour of the vendor's endorsements being retained. Conversely, in the absence of such written evidence, the Kennel Club would normally decide in favour of the purchaser and lift the endorsement. However, this would only apply in cases where a dog is transferred from the person who placed the endorsement to a new ownership.

Oh and it isn't just the breeder who can place endorsements, but anyone that is the registered owner of a dog, and it is in their physical possession at the time the endorsement is placed.  This could apply for example when an entire dog or bitch is passed on to new owners after already being bred from to prevent further breeding.

Thank you for all the advice. I gave it one last try with the breeder, mentioning the possible removal by the KC, and this morning I had an email saying they will remove it right away. :)