Hi I am new to this and want as much information before I make a firm decision whether or not to breed my dog.

I bought her purposely to breed, but she is just as much of a pet too, shes part of the family and lives in doors with my other 4 dogs (they have all been spayed/castrated as I didnt want to breed them) and my family. She has a sweet temprement, loves cuddles, walks ect. My problem is I want to know im doing the "right thing" I know people have different thoughts on breeding hence why I decided to resigeter her to speak to breeders, not people who are either BREED or NOT BREED lol.

Anyway - I dont think Im allowed to post my dogs breed here, but shes a toy type, shes currently 1 year old (I wont breed her till her first season over 2 year old). I had a converstation with my vet her advice was - health check, worm vacc and flea before breeding -health check after breeding, papate at 4 weeks plus health check, ultrasound at 5-6 weeks (to get a rough guess of how many to expect) and worming from 40 days, health check at 58 days, a home vet health check 24 hours after giving birth, a vet visit at 4 weeks, first vacc at 8 weeks 2nd at 10 and new homes at 12.

from what i have looked up this is about right advice,
I will have my dog eye tested (the only "must" test for the breed) shes vet check regular standard anyway. and the stud is eye tested also. She will have a whelping box, i will be with her everystep of the way incase she needs help, ect

Anyway I am wondering if these steps are what everyone would take or if their are any that you would leave out? ie any that would cause more bad than good effects? I was advised not to KC the pups but to use another registration club, because it would make it clear that they are pets not breeding machine, Im not conviced it would do any good, would this just encourage bad breeding practices? Also I spoke to my vets they have practices up and dow the country, I was consdiering taking them up on offers they have (I was advices they will not be retracting them as it helps people on lower incomes.) The puppy pack offer is aside from food a toy ect is worming, fleaing, chipping first and 2nd vacc ect for a set price you can also combine it with a vaccine for life for an additional cost which can be transfered in the new owners name -basically the dog will recieve a booster every year at no cost to the owners under the condition they have it the same date every year.
I was considering taking both these offers IF I did breed her for all the pups. I have a set figure in mind regardless of what offers I took out I was just thinking of offering the best start in thier lives, but I thought it may put off good owners if they thought that I thought they couldnt care for their new pup.

Could people please advise? I dont want to jump in head first and regret my decision making in the future!

In general I would say unless your plan is to found a working or show line of dogs of your own don't breed.

A one off litter generally does not help a breed move on, and it is a very expensive way to simply get a puppy.  Just the equipment needed health testing and then rearing costs, and if anything goes wrong veterinary cost will more than likely leave you seriously out of pocket.

Then there is the responsibility to the puppies for the rest of their lives, having to take back and re-home/rehabilitate (possibly having to pay long term borading fees if the dog won't mix with yours) at any age. 

As a person deeply involved in their dog hobby and after breeding several genrations such a breeder will have a wide network/grapevine to help with homing that one less involved does not have the benefit of.  first time/new breeders will rely on their mentors (expereinced logn time breeders) in the breed for help.

> I was advised not to KC the pups but to use another registration club, because it would make it clear that they are pets not breeding machine,

This is completely the wrong/opposite advice.  Those using these spurious registries (whose only purpose is to make unregisterable pups look like they are more than they are) are those who use their dogs as cash cows.

Yes there may be some people who use the kennel Club registration system that are not good breeders, but those not using the KC system (or with working Border collies the International Sheep Dog Society) are simply puppy farmers or casual back yard breeders whoa re not breeding with any intention but to sell puppies.  ?they are not looking t breed improvement/maintenance, working ability etc.

Breeding is not/should not be an end in itself, but something that is part of an involvement in canine activities.  There are more than enough puppies bred this way to also be pets.

Have a look at the post Hobby breeder.  http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/board/topic/133318.html

I think, in general, nobody should be breeding unless they have a dog that has shown it has value to the gene pool. There are far too many less than average puppies bred and not finding lifetime homes to find breeding any more acceptable.

Obviously all the healthy checks that are recommended are an important element but I would say you also need to show or work (although I suspect work is not applicable to your toy dog :)) to firmly establish that it is a truely typical example.

I am not sure who is advising you regarding the registration but I would dump them immediately!  No other registration will have the assurance of blood lines that the Kennel Club carries.  Finding owners that you can trust with your puppies is down to thorough, thorough vetting.  It is perfectly possible to endorse the puppies so that no progeny can be registered from them without your permission which will be detailed in your contract stating what requirements you have in terms of health and show results before lifting it.  Of course no registration can prevent people physically breeding just registering the result so I would stress again thorough, thorough vetting.

Are you sure your bitch is not endorsed?  Most responsible breeders do so?  If she is not I cannot help but then question her background.  Did she come from a respected breeder would you say?

I can hardly follow all that stuff about prepaid vaccination programme (if I have even got that understanding right :)) but it is not normal to make such arrangements. I don't think I would consider selling a pup to anyone who could not easily afford to pay for regular vaccination and, at least, an insurance policy to cover emergency needs.

Hi I have not shown my dog as of yet, I have registered her with a local dog show just to start, she does take part in agility not for any other reason except pure enjoyment lol as do my other dogs.

She isnt endorsed I bought her from a breeder (now sadly unable to help due to health issues that couldnt be predicted) who was happy for me to breed her, i had waited nearly 2 yeears for the pup I bought and was vet checked ect.

I wouldnt abandon any pup bred by me at any stage regardless of age temprement health problems ect. I understand the cost involved and that the dogs health and lives must come first!

I thought the same thing about the KC I wasnt convinced that it was the right move to make at all, it was a supposive breeder I spoke to in passing who had dogs of the same breed as mine whilst on holiday.

>  who was happy for me to breed her

This not generally what you would expect from responsible breeders without conditions applied.  Did the breeder successfully show her dogs?

There are some very helpful articles on breeding on the Kennel club website where you will also be able to read up on the registration system.

I would join your breeds national and any regional breed clubs.  Attend breed club events etc.  You will meet a much better class of breeder who will be in a position to advise on the merits of your bitch (if they think you actually want an honest opinion) and any potential breeding plans.  Good breeders are part of a community, as you cannot do it properly alone.

lol yes I suppose it is a prevaccination programme lol. I wasnt thinking about people not insuring them or vaccinating ect I was simply thinking that if in the future their financial circumstances changed drastically then at least they wouldnt have to pay £40+ for a booster (working off local vets cost), I would obviousy vet check homes and ensure that they knew that pups were not sold on a no returns policy and that they were always able to bring the pups back to me, accompanined with a 1/2 refund policy (which should encourage them to bring the dogs back if theres any problems).

Not sure what a vet check I would do all the vetting myself.

> I would obviousy vet check homes and ensure that they knew that pups were not sold on a no returns policy and that they were always able to bring the pups back to me, accompanined with a 1/2 refund policy (which should encourage them to bring the dogs back if theres any problems).

The usual way to ensure this is to have a written contract.  My contract actually says if a puppy is returned I will reimburse any money received on another sale less modest expenses ie £10 a week.

I do think you are putting the cart before the horse though.  You have not yet established whether your bitch is suitable for breeding :)

Breeding a litter, done correctly, IS expensive. It can also be life threatening to your bitch - is that something you're prepared for? I consider myself to have had far more experience than most going into breeding, having been mentored by the breeder of my dogs over a number of years helping her to whelp & raise 10 litters before even breeding my own. That gave me invaluable experience & insight, but as much as I knew breeding a bitch always holds an element of risk, i can tell you it did not prepare me for the sheer terror when I almost lost my bitch following birth of her pups earlier in the year. Apart from the emotional anguish, the exhaustion from worry & bottle feeding pups, it also cost me £1,000. I suspect a huge amount more at other vets.

If you are determined to breed, get the help & support of the breeder of your own girl, if from a good breeder. There is so much more to it than health tests & temperament of your own dog. You need to look very closely at your own lines & even more so at the lines of the dog you propose to use.

What about homes? Have you got any lined up? I don't mean friends who'll say they'll have a pup, but never do. As far as I'm concerned you shouldn't even undertake a mating unless you have serious & firm bookings for at least half the expected number of pups. No orders, no mating.

Whoever told you about not registering with KC hasn't got a clue & I would hope they're not advising.

You are doing the right thing asking for advice.

Yes I belielve her dogs were shown, and conditions were applied, one of the condition was to ALWAYS return to her for help advice and before breeding however she arranged for me to view a whelping (no involvement ect just to watch) but sadly their was health issues that were unforseen and unexpected so now Im going it alone IF i decide to breed!

Her dogs were health screened vet checked cared for ect which is why I chose to contact her. I must admit not even the rescue centre I got my first dog from screened as vigourus as her. And even though I went up to collect my pup she insisted on visiting 2 weeks after to make sure everything was happy with her. and although I still send photos by email to show her she cant help me.

> Yes I belielve her dogs were shown

I think you have a lot more research to do there :).

I would be surprised, if your breeder was involved in the show world, that they could not have passed you on to another mentor such as the owner of your bitches stud for example.  Have you been in touch with them?

One of the other advantages of showing is the networking it allows you and the possibility of finding another mentor which you will surely need not least because many toy breeds are not that straightforward in terms of whelping and rearing. 

i havent lined anything up as i havent decided wither way yet i stil have at least 12 months before I even have to consider homes (if I decide to breed).

I wont be advertising them as such. When she invited me the first time to see her pups (2 years before I had a pup) she advised me that she had a waiting list of 1 year for her pups, and she never adveertised, when i asked her why she said people who avertise the pups are usualy sold to last minute puppy buyers which often results in people not keeping in contact, and that in having a waiting list she has only ever had 2 dogs returned and 1 person not keeping in contact in 26 years.

As it is at least a year before you mate her if you so decide I think it may be of help if you tell us the breed because very few breeds only have annual eye tests and some breeds have very special requirements so knowing what breed you have may help us give you breed specific advice.

Would second the idea that you should join breed clubs and attend breed club functions you will learn loads that will help you not only it sourcing the correct stud but giving you pre-knowledge of just how much you will need to have saved for this project. It will also give you an idea of how well the pups are selling at the moment as in some breeds there is no real market at all and that is no good as the finding of the right homes is never easy at the best of times an if no one actually wants the pups it can be impossible.

> in some breeds there is no real market at all

http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/board/topic/131227.html

In some Toy breeds the KC minimum requirements for health screeing is eye testing but this is way too little - many toy breeds suffer from far more unpleasant conditions which can be passed in the genes.

but this is way too little

This is rather what I meant, join a breed club and follow their advice, ignore your local vet in most cases they have little to no knowledge of breeding.

>I dont think Im allowed to post my dogs breed here,

You're allowed to mention your dog's breed as long as you don't have a litter of puppies to sell. :-) At this stage in the proceedings it's fine, and would help specialists advise you.

You say 'I bought her purposely to breed'. Why? As others say, unless the bitch is a good work/show prospect what would she be adding to the gene pool and why would potential buyers choose your litter in particular? Do you hope to keep a puppy yourself, that is not mentioned in your post. I personally would only breed if I wanted a puppy for myself, I wouldn't risk my bitch for any other reason. (We are all different but that is my own slant on things.) I have just bred a litter, now 8 weeks old. It cost me more than £2,000 to do so. In the end I didn't keep a pup, which has been the source of much sorrow to me, but that's just the way it is. As far as I'm concerned I did it for the right reasons and the mum/pups have had the very best of everything (I'm still sleeping on the sofa until the last pup goes next Thurs). 

Next week I will be fostering and trying to find homes for 2 long term stayers from Dogs Trust. One is deaf (has been in kennels for 2 years), the other was born in DT kennels and has spent most of his 5 years there. They are collies, not toy breeds, but I have to say I did question myself whether it was right to breed in the recession when money is so tight and dogs in rescues die every day because of lack of homes. That has to be your decision but the others are right. You need a good support network and a mentor you can rely on because anything can happen before/during/after the puppies are born.

I would also ask the question 'why do you want to breed?'. Most people who are not breeding for money do so because they are looking to keep another pup for themselves as a future prospect. Are you wanting to keep a puppy yourself and if not - what leads you to believe other people are going to buy a pup from you rather than someone else? What do you and your bitch have to offer which is going to set you apart? (I mean all this in a nice way!) How will people know about your litter? How will you know about potential buyers - are they really what they seem?

How did you select the stud dog? Is he compatible in terms of type, temprament and breeding with your bitch? Does he carry any of the same faults that she has? Has he been proven and is the owner experienced? Problems can occur during mating.

I am presuming that you don't have a huge interest in showing at the moment, which is ok as it isn't the be all and end all, but presumably the puppies you are aiming to produce will be purely for 'pets'. This is a massive responsibility as potentially you are bringing into the world animals which will hopefully be treasured companions for their owners for many years. It is therefore ESSENTIAL that you really weigh up what this means. The puppies will need a huge commitment in terms of rearing not just costs and equiptment but with socialisation to ensure they have a really good start in life. If you work, you will need a lot of time off. If a buyer falls through at the last minute you may have to hang on to a puppy for a while until you find another home. I'm pleased you say you will take back a dog which the owner cannot keep, but have you considered this could well happen just before you are going on holiday?

Then as others have said, there are the practicalities of whelping and rearing puppies. It is possible to do this alone but if something starts to go wrong, such as a puppy not feeding properly, will you know enough to spot the signs early enough? Would you realise if your bitch had a retained placenta for example? Supposing a puppy is born with a defect that requires surgery to correct it? Can you afford to do this?

There are the emotional questions. Are you ready to make a difficult desicion to have a puppy euthanased if necessary? Or face the possibility of losing your bitch or having a 'fading litter'? Breeding is wonderful when things go to plan but can just as easily break your heart.

I'm not saying don't breed but I do think you need an experienced mentor who will be able to provide support and help. Vets, even good ones are not a substitute as they have limited knowledge of breeding, apart from being expensive to consult!

Ditto to the above post (wish there was a 'Like' button lol)