Hi,

just wondered what is the 'usual' rules if a b..ch should miss again on the free return mating should the stud fee be paid instead as the agreement was for a puppy in return from a successful mating but the b..ch missed and a free return was offered if she should miss on the free return what usually happens as in what is fair for both parties and can the contract be rolled over on to another b..ch of the same owner instead if the first b..ch miss on the free return time

You know it's perfectly ok to say bitch :-) It's a technical term and is used everywhere, at shows etc.

Personally I wouldn't ask for a stud fee, but then again the stud owner has spent a considerable amount of time and effort on your girl and if the dog is proven fertile, whether that is by sperm testing or the positive outcome of another mating, then I think they deserve something for their time :-) If they don't ask for a fee I would offer them something and take a small gift :-)

I don't think you can choose to transfer the right to another bitch as a matter of right as all bitches are different, even from the same litter, and this particular dog may not be the very best match for another bitch.

I have recently mated up my bitch and nothing was mentioned by the stud dog owner re what will happen if she doesn't take. I was too scared to ask about a free return, silly I know.. but when said person has been in the breed 30+ years it kind of makes me feel afraid to ask ! I am just hoping she is in pup !

The norm is a free return visit, my maiden bitch failed twice[now know she ovulates very early] and I was allowed use of an unproven show quality male on my proven bitch next time at no charge and got a litter of 3 pups thus proving her stud, probably not what majority of stud owners would do for someone new to breeding travelling over 200 miles one way to the right stud.

If the agreement was for a puppy from the litter and there have been no puppies, then I would say no stud fee is payable. And I write that as a stud dog owner as well as a bitch owner.

Again this points out that people should sort out the terms and "what ifs" before the mating takes place.

Hi,

everyone who replied thanks it's been a great help the bitch (thank you chaumsung for the heads up on allowing to use the word I wasn't sure it was allowed in this forum) is a proven bitch and had a litter before the stud dog is unproven and mated another bitch near the same time as my bitch this bitch missed as well does anybody know term in this circumstance

> does anybody know term in this circumstance

There may be custom and practice but there are no rules that anyone can be held to except those that have been agreed in writing before hand.  Do you have a contract? 

i state that when i get asked and about using my boy at stud that if no pups you get another go free of charge, only one bitch has returned and then when nothing went to use another stud, both boys were proven before and after said bitch, owner had used 3 proven studs in the end and still no pups and will no accept that the bitch is barren, but to anwser your question in my breed it is the norm to have stud contracts with everything stated incoulding returning if there are no pups

Hi,

yes there is a contract it just mentions the puppy in return and the free return if she miss and isn't pregnant I don't think it mentions anything about if she miss on the free return she is a proven bitch and the stud dog is un proven what usually happens in this case do I just pay the stud fee now as I said before he mated another bitch from another owner shortly after this bitch is not pregnant

Morally as the dog is still unproven after three matings to two different bitches I would not expect a fee unless it could be proved shortly after the failed matings that the dog is fertile.

As a bitch owner I would use a different male after my bitch had missed twice as after all you have fewer chances of getting a litter before it's too late, than a dog has for siring.

I have to say that in my numerically small breed that we rarely pay a stud fee before a litter arrives and I have never been asked for any fee when my bitches have missed.

A puppy instead of the stud fee makes it a very expensive alternative, stud fee is £200 and a pup at least £750 in my breed.

I prefer to pay the money at time of mating then any other money saved up is then available for vet expences etc.

It does very much depend on the breed. In my breed, the price of a puppy and the stud fee would be the same.

Really important that a very clear,signed contract is in place.Then all parties know where they stand.Practices vary greatly between stud dog owners.

Same in my breed -price of pup and stud fee is the same. I have to say I've never been asked to sign a contract with a stud dog owner.

I have never signed a contract but was recommended by the breeder of my bitches to the stud dog owner so felt happy with the arrangement,she even found me accommodation near by to stay over to get 2 matings 48 hrs apart.

Stud fees in my breed are the cost of a puppy, which is perhaps why stud dog owners do not feel entitled to a fee unless there are puppies, and it is easier to not take any payment unless there is a litter rather than having to deal with the issue of what is done about a fee already received, refund, free return.

The last stud dog that I used I was actually given a loan of the dog to bring home for a week as the owner couldn't keep my bitch due to work commitments. That shows real trust to my mind :) We had 7 lovely puppies as a result. The stud fee was almost the price of a puppy