Hi All

Has anybody else read in the daily mail today about lloyds and halifax pet ins policies being withdrawn, i have got my dog insured with halifax and have found them really good over the past 3 yrs but am amazed and shocked to read this today, it says any policies due in the next month until next September wont be available to renew the policies, they have said they have written to warn policy holders in advance but i haven't heard a thing, it is a real shock as robbie has ongoing medical bills for his skin problems and don't think any other insurers will take him on now with a pre existing illness.
If anybody else has heard about this i would be interested to hear from you

A friend rang me and he spoke about this,that he had a letter from Halifax to tell him that they were stopping his insurance and that they had referred him to pet plan,cannot remember how much he said he had previously paid to Halifax, but the monthly fee to pet plan jumped to £30, so he has decided not to go with them, although he did say that pet plan would honour any existing illness.

Thats interesting as i did a search on the internet and found a discussion board about this that said that halifax were not offering any other option to transfer to another insurance company, did your friend definitely get offered petplan and honouring exisiting illnesses, sorry to double check but i am gonna phone them tomorrow and if i know for definite that they are offering some people other cover i will fight my corner with them.

Hamish75

Don't ring them about your specific policy til you have a bit more background - it'll be worth doing your research first about what they have to offer existing customers. 

I've found the online version of the story here - I notice that it contains the following advice

Graeme Trudgill at the British Insurance Brokers' Association says: 'Those with concerns should seek advice from an independent broker,' he says. 'Alternative cover may be found, even for pets with existing conditions, depending on their severity.'

Might be worth following that up -  it's a terrible situation to find yourself in, you have my sympathies xx

I am concerned as i only have 23 days of my existing policy left and am still seeing the homeopathic vet for ongoing skin problems with robbie, yes he is much much better but is still on medication from her and possibly will be longterm otherwise he is likely to slip right back again, i always thought cover for life policies meant covered for life but guess i was wrong!!
The only problem i can see in phoning an independent broker is that all pet insurance companies that i have looked at today online say pre existing illnesses are not covered so how will they find anythng different.
I feel halifax should honour the policy and find another insurer to take on their existing clients but perhaps i am very angry and not thinking straight at the moment, to say i am fuming is a understatement.

> The only problem i can see in phoning an independent broker is that all pet insurance companies that i have looked at today online say pre existing illnesses are not covered so how will they find anythng different.

I expect they would be looking for an insurer to take on his pre existing conditions - there are many insurance companies who can offer customised policies (for a fee!)

In the meantime you want to look closely at consumer pressure groups to get some answers.  How about Watchdog? 

...and yes - I'd be livid too which is why I suggest not calling your insurer until you have a few more facts.  Also after a few days of consumer pressure you might find some more positive news emerges.  Fingers crossed for you

Thanks i have just emailed watchdog but it says they cannot respond to everybodys email so will have to wait and see, not sure what other pressure groups i can contact so any ideas would be very gratefully recieved, i am gonna do my best to try and get an answer to this but feel time is running out on robbies policy to get it reinstated before it terminates.
Where would i find an independent broker from? Sorry to be a pain but i was online for most of today getting online quotes from petplan,m&s and loads of other online pet ins places and they all came back with pre existing conditions are not covered so losing hope now that i will get robbie re insured with anybody!!!!

> Where would i find an independent broker from?

British Insurance Brokers' Association can help you - they have a find a Broker facility

If the insurer is ceasing trading you won't get your policy reinstated - the best you could hope for is that another company would agree to 'buy' the policies.  This isn't something you have any control over and it would be negotiated by Lloyds/Halifax or whomever it is.   I'm surprised that, as many insurers use the same underwriters, this hasn't happened already - it ought to have been relatively simple.  The issue might be that the policies have been oversold or underfunded and leave little profit for another company to feel it's worth the effort.

If you want to find someone to cover Robbie's pre existing conditions then you'll need to pay for it.  It won't be cheap as this type of cover will only be wanted by pets with pre existing conditions and a high incidence of claims.  It also won't be available from the mainstream insurers or via online quotes as the risk will need to be assessed on a case by case basis.                                                                          

Hi

Well not good news which is what i expected really, i phoned a couple of independent brokers who took all the details down and then phoned around for me and they both came back with you can insure him for future problems but nobody will insure me who will take on robs existing problems so i guess thats the end of that road, cannot blame them really but i am just really pee'd off that i thought i had a lifetime policy that they have now pulled the plug on, don't know who else to try i have myself phoned round most insurance companies and they have all said that unless you actually go with a pet insurer in the 1st place there is a chance that this could eventually happen all over the board, they said although petplan are the most expensive they are by far the best.
If anybody else has any options i haven't thought of i would be very grateful to hear from them at the current time my mind is in a whirl and i am not really thinking straight, just never thought this would happen its like a nightmare!!

> i thought i had a lifetime policy that they have now pulled the plug on

Never done anything like this but I wonder if getting a no-win no-fee lawyer to go after them would do any good?

I know this doesn't answer your questions about the cessation of Robbie's current insurance but in the heat of the moment do not forget to reinsure him.  I know you have ongoing treatment for his skin but he's a young dog and he could easily need unrelated treatment at some point in the future and it would be unfortunate to find yourself without cover for that. 

How much were you paying each month/year for his insurance premiums?  What are his current monthly costs for his allergies/skin troubles?  Now he has stabilised you might find that you can budget for his skin treatment and buy a cheaper insurance for everything else.

I've done a similar calculation for my 4 yr old dog with allergies and if I changed insurers I could pay for all his existing allergy treatment myself and still afford a good lifetime cover for everything else.  It's a borderline saving in my case so I haven't done it this year but seeing as you have no choice it might be worth you doing a similar calculation.

You obviously don't have a renewal figure for this year but you can be sure it would have gone up. My renewal premium is £695 per annum for my allergy dog!! 

Don't mind me asking but how much do you think you would have to put away per month to cover your dogs existing allergy treatment, we use a homeopathic vet which robbie has done well under up to now but we haven't been through a winter yet on her treatment and its the winter months we suffer really badly usually so i am now dreading this year even more!!!
Who do you insure with as that premium sounds a lot for a 4yr old dog, i was paying £18 per month with halifax, i have phoned around and petplan said they will take him on for £26 per month but not covering all the pre existing conditions so i now need to work out how much i would have to put away to cover skin and anal gland emptying, also if he gets any more tumours like he did last year those will be exempt aswell, don't know what other companies to try as i am worried other firms will fold up aswell like halifax did.

> i am worried other firms will fold up aswell like halifax did.

I don't think they have folded have they just deciding not to carry on with pet insurance?  I wonder if it is no longer proving lucritive enough. 
I do think it is unfair that they can have been charging higher premium for life time cover which they then cease to honour and therefore I wonder if it is worth speaking to either Trading Standards or perhaps the Insurance Ombudsman to better understand your position. 
Not at all sure any ambulance chasing lawyers would be willing to take on Lloyds :)

You could check your allergy treatment costs with the vet - ask them to send you a print out of Robbie's account.  My boy has monthly injections and I claim for those on top of the consultation fees together with copious amounts of ear cleaner and Surolan.  I'm marginally ahead as I can use the ear cleaners for my other dogs too but my annual premium is about equal to the amount I've claimed.  I'm with M&S and I cannot fault their cover or the ease of claiming BUT they have me over a barrel and I don't know anyone else who has premiums as high as those for this boy.

I nearly cancelled this year but decided against it as I'm in the middle of some other treatment for him.  However I'm planning to self insure at least 2 of my dogs, including this one, from next year so I'm saving to ensure I have a comfortable financial cushion for them.

Your case does highlight how difficult this market is and I think in your position I'd be inclined to go with a specialist pet insurer - it's obviously all too easy for others to withdraw when the going gets tough.

Do have a think about what you can for yourself, for Robbie.  Can you receive training to clear anal glands?  Apparently I would be allowed to inject my dog which would save the consultation fee each month and I plan to talk to them about that again soon - I need to check I heard them right!! 

This happened years ago to my friend with dobes with existing conditions who were transfered to Petplan policies when they took over Dog Breeders Insurance.

Agria who do the kennel clubs Insurance seem to be pretty good, as they are a Pet INSUARANCE COMPANY.

Hamish75, have you actually checked that your cover is not being transferred and it just a case of not yet receiving notification?  LLoyds underwrite many insurance companies.

Hi

No i have today received my new insurance papers for the coming renewing year from bdml connect that are dealing the the old halifax customers and are now trading under petwise which is being underwritten by axa, they have offered me a renewal price but it clearly states all pre existing condition will not be covered.
I have contacted the insurance ombudsman today who are sending out a letter to bdml under my name to make a complaint but they said they cannot offer any great hope in my cover being reinstated fully with petwise as halifax have got the rights to pull out of insurance cover if they feel its no liable, so guess i am fighting a losing battle really.
Just finding it hard to work out how much its gonna cost me to cover all his pre existing illnesses and find another insurance and find that premium aswell, as there aren't many money trees out there at the moment and budgets for everyone each month are tight thats why we take out pet ins!!!

If you have been paying extra for live time cover then they owe you something surely or they are breaking their contract with you.

> If you have been paying extra for live time cover then they owe you something surely or they are breaking their contract with you.

That is exactly what I think.  I think it might be worth discussing this with trading standards.  Never mind if they think it is viable (I presume you meant to type that :)) they have been taking money off you on the understanding it would be for life.

> If you have been paying extra for live time cover then they owe you something surely or they are breaking their contract with you

I bet that there is something in the small print that says that they don't :(

Now isn't it always the way write live when you meant LIFE and everyone chooses to copy and past it - don't think we have an emoticon for blush!

Hi Hamish75

How did you get on with this?  Could the ombudsman help you?

Someone was today asking me about insurance for a new puppy and I was reminded about your problem...

Nothing good, have complained to the ombudsman but heard nothing yet and they said not to expect much, i have written to all parties involved heard back from the underwriters 'agria' who said its the halifax's fault by pulling out, halifax have said 'tough luck' they have decided its not worth there while having pet insurance and are concentrating more on car and house insurance as they found they were paying out more than they were taking in on the policies, i said but thats not my fault and i now cannot get him cover that takes on pre existing conditions but they are not interested, i have insured him with petplan but they have excluded all his pre existing conditions which you cannot blame them, i just wanted peace of mind that anything else that happens he will be covered for, not sure how i am gonna cover his skin/ear problems but will have to hope and pray that he is under control a bit more now he has a good homeopathic vet but we will have to wait and see what the winter brings.
Thanks for asking

Sorry to hear you're not optimistic HAMISH75. From what I've read, you're not the only one in this situation. I copied the bit below from an article I read about it:

.....customers may have a valid cause of complaint with the Financial Ombudsman Service.

A FOS spokesman said: "We cannot comment on individual cases. In each case we would look at the policy documents and marketing material that was sent out. If we feel that these risks hadn't been properly highlighted or explained, customers may have cause for redress." He added: "Even if an insurer has pulled out of the market, they may be obliged to pay for ongoing treatment - up to policy limits - that would not be covered by any new insurer. Much would depend on the policy wording."

The rest of the article's here

Maybe the fact that there are plenty of people in the same boat might mean you could get something out of it. Hope so anyway!

Hello
I have just joined this forum as I have been trawling the net for some info on the Halifax nightmare too, my dog Jess has 'Primary Closed Angle Glaucoma' in both eyes since the age of 7 the Eye Specialist said it was hereditary (Jack Russell Patterdale Cross) and she is now 9 will be 10 in May so we are left high and dry too by Halifax.

She has to have regular visits to the eye clinic which costs a fortune as our Vet referred us to the clinic and she has to have specialist eye drops 3 lots all together for both eyes which are very expensive and being tiny little bottles they don't go far at all eg: one bottle lasts just 12 days as she has to have 1 drop in both eyes 4 times a day and the same with the other bottles only at different times so they only last just under a fortnight

To be fare Halifax never quibbled with the payouts at all but now we are devastated too. She has to have the eye drops to keep the pressure down in the eyes as it becomes so painful ~ at one time the Specialist told us that if the drops stop working (which could happen at any time) and the pressure keeps rising she would have to have her eyes removed so we are living on a knifes edge with all this so could do without the H/Fax stress.

We have also contacted the Financial Ombudsman and was told to wait for the usual 8 weeks like everyone else. Her insurance runs out the end of December so we are doing the same looking for someone else to take her on... will keep an eye out on here for any information as it's nice to know there are others out there who can give some advice ~ thanks.

Hi

Sorry to hear you are in the same position my insurance ran out the end of october and since then we have had to pay the bills ourselves, i have got robbie re insured with petplan but they won't cover pre existing illnesses so anything that arises from his skin or anal gland issues wont be covered, we too are living on a knife edge as although he is well at the moment you can never know long term how he will be and as our vet said a chronic skin condition like he has is obviously going to get worse at times and have huge bills, he has had roughly £1500 each year over the past 3 yrs of his life. I have had letters back from the halifax and bdml but they are just saying in so many words tough luck go somewhere else so i have now left it in the financial ombudsmans hands to decide but they told me not to get my hopes up but i am just keeping my fingers crossed that something comes of it.
Why should our pets suffer just because they have decided its not worthwhile to insures pets anymore and they are not making anything from it, there should be stronger rules to stop them just pulling out like this and leaving owners in the lurch, sorry i just feel soooo strongly about this

> Why should our pets suffer just because they have decided its not worthwhile to insures pets anymore and they are not making anything from it,

At the end of the day companies have to make money, to pay their bills, to page wages etc   It would be a very poor business decision to carry on doing something you lose money from.

I'm probably a good bet for insurance companies of any type, I've never claimed on my household insurance, car insurance or 2 of the dogs insurance. But all these policies go up every year to cover the cost of other peoples claims, that's life. I guess when it gets to the stage that it is too expensive for the people who aren't claiming to cover the costs of those who are insurance companies have to decide if they can continue to offer a service.

I don't see why you would complain to the FO?

> I don't see why you would complain to the FO?

I think she has complained because she has been paying extra for so-called 'lifetime' cover. If she had not expected the insurance company to honour its part of the agreement, she might as well have paid a much lesser sum for her cover on an annual renewal basis. That's the reason for her, and many other people's complaints.

You are lucky that you have never had to claim for your animals so you won't understand the position that people are in whose animals are sick with long term problems that are now worried sick as to how they will be able to pay the vets bills, many people are in a worse situation than me and its people like you that make comments like these that will make these people fume, some peoples dogs/cats are on long term medication that is costing hundreds per month that they will now have to fund themselves and in this day and age with money as tight as it is how do they decide between letting there animals suffer and paying there own bills!!!
I and a lot of other people that have complained to the financial ombudsman feel we have a right to complain that pet insurers shouldn't be able to just pull the plug. I don't see how you can say we shouldn't be complaining to the companies involved and feel you should keep your remarks to yourself as you are lucky if you have never made a claim and lets hope you never have to, but i bet you would feel different if your dogs had long term conditions and your pet insurance company pulled the plug and you were left to foot the bill yourself, but you wouldn't be shouting your mouth off then about people shouldn't complain to the FO!!!!!

You have every right to feel angry as you have been left in the lurch by an insurer who has effectively taken your money under false pretences! Let's hope you, and others like you will get some kind of redress, for the sake of all your precious pets, and also for the sake of natural justice!

Thank you its nice to hear somebody knows how people that insured their pets with the halifax feel at them pulling the plug, its okay for people to shout their mouths off when their pets are still insured and they have no money worries about how they will pay the next claim.
Sorry i ranted on but it just fumed me to read that other post

> Sorry i ranted on but it just fumed me to read that other post

Don't blame you, I'd have felt the same. Still, try not to let it get you down. I guess you get all sorts on here, as in life.

Glad your little lad is doing well at the moment. You certainly do your best for him.

Thank you that means a lot x

I understand your worry Hamish, I was merely trying to explain that insurance companies like any other commercial organisation have to make money. They have to be able to pay their overheads, pay their staff etc. We can't really complain if they have paid out £1500 a year for the past 3 years for your dog and now they can't afford to do that any more.

I understand your worry about his future vet care, but I don't understand how you can be angry about the company themselves. That would be like being angry at Asda for putting up the price of baked beans, or stopping selling them because they were so expensive nobody would buy them. It's a business decision.

>  I don't understand how you can be angry about the company themselves

Because they sold her a policy offering 'lifetime' cover for more money. Now they have reneged on that. Surely they have taken her money under false pretences. If they were not prepared to offer 'lifetime' cover, then they should not have sold it on that basis. Simple enough I think.

It doesn't have anything to do with whether the insurance company can afford it or not. The Financial Ombudsman will look at whether the promotional material issued by the company used language to mislead customers into believing that their policy was for life. If it is found to be reasonable for the customers to believe that their pets condition would continue to be covered for the life of the pet and not the life of the company, and that this belief was fueled by information from the insurance company, then they may be found to have misled their customers by failing to explain the potential risks in insuring their pet and making claims for conditions. They may be ordered to refund premiums or other compensation but they can't be ordered to resurrect the company. Don't forget that this is only a division of a much larger organisation. In reality they can well afford to appease the complainants and the FO has the power to make this happen.

> I understand your worry Hamish, I was merely trying to explain that insurance companies like any other commercial organisation have to make money. They have to be able to pay their overheads, pay their staff etc. We can't really complain if they have paid out £1500 a year for the past 3 years for your dog and now they can't afford to do that any more.
>
> I understand your worry about his future vet care, but I don't understand how you can be angry about the company themselves. That would be like being angry at Asda for putting up the price of baked beans, or stopping selling them because they were so expensive nobody would buy them. It's a business decision.

We are not talking about 'beans' here but 'living pets' and yes and we understand that the Insurance Companies have to make money too but not at our expense?

If they needed to pull out of the pet insurance market they could have stopped taking on any new customers or renew short term policies or policies which have not been claimed on so at least those customers could go elsewhere not causing them too much stress but at least honour the 'on going' or 'lifetime' policies until those pets in question has passed on so to speak, they must have known that in doing what they have done would cause a lot of stress for people like us. 

They are in the insurance business that's what insurance is for ~ so are we supposed to feel sorry for them? I din't think so ~ we are not talking about cars or commodities or tins of beans here but 'pets' who need care ~ these Insurers don't have to make the decision whether to have their pet 'put to sleep' because of high costs and not being able to afford the vets bills because I am sure that's what will happen to some poor pets whose owners are up against it.

By the way have you got a pet or have it insured? if so I bet it's not with Halifax!!

Somebody else in the same situation as me with my little westie, now we are on the same wave length until people like us are in the same situation left with no insurance and worried sick nobody else would understand.
Have you written to all parties involved or just gone straight to the FO have you had anything back yet?
Will keep you informed if i get anywhere and would appreciate if you could do the same.

Helen

Helen

Just out of interest was there anything in the small print of the policy that mentions this scenario as I would be surprised if an insurance company that large would leave themselves open to litigation. If they haven't then you would have a good chance of greeting some sort of financial compensation.

Good luck

Hamish, just a thought, might do some good if you contacted that programme on tv,Rip off Britain,they investigate and might take the insurance company to task. It,s a horrible situation that you find yourself in.

I myself have my dogs insured but not with Halifax,unfortunately one had a pre existing condition,which i did not know about when i took him on,therefore i have now been left to pay for very expensive surgery and for all his ongoing medications,but what else can you do?

Dear All,

My name is Mike Tighe and I'm an Assistant Producer for the BBC Radio 4 programme 'You and Yours'.

I'm currently looking into the contraction of the pet insurance market for a potential story, and am looking to speak to people who have been left without cover as a result of Lloyds' and Halifax's non-renewal of their policies.

If you've been affected and think you can help, please do get in touch with me at mike.tighe@bbc.co.uk.

Best Wishes,

Mike Tighe
Assistant Producer, BBC Radio 4

[Admin: permission to post]

I am sure you will get some response here Mike and I do hope you will be able to pick this story up as it badly needs some more publicity as many people have been left with some horrible choices about what they can now afford to do for their pets that have already starting on life long treatments for chronic conditions.

As I am sure you are aware "The One Show" covered this recently however, disappointingly, they only looked at it from the point of view of this type of insurance no longer being available rather than the issue of existing clients being dropped having paid a higher premium for life time cover.

Insurance companies are entitled to table whatever products they wish but how have these companies been allowed to break their contract with existing customers?

Hi

My westie robbie was insured with the halifax and i took out the xtra policy as i was told this covered them for any 'lifetime conditions' that they may get and that £6000 would be reinstated every year, i took this out at 8 weeks of age back in 2008, he has suffered from skin problems and anal gland issues for most of his life and has had ongoing vets bills, we are now with a homeopathic vet and he is doing well but this is still costly which i now have to fund myself and he is going to need ongoing care for the rest of his life as his skin will have up and down times, his insurance expired back in october and after numerous letters they just don't care, they have compensated some people whose animals have ongoing conditions but others just don't seem to get the same offer for some strange reason, it is a big financial worry at a time when money is already tight and you just don't know how to try and imagine how much you will need to put away each month to cover the cost of vets bills, i have contacted the financial ombudsman who have taken up the case but they have told me not to hold my breath as other companies that pulled out before they went on there side instead of the innocent people so guess the big guys will get the backing again which seems so unfair.

Any help a lot of people would be very grateful for as i know a lot of people are in the same boat with poor animals that will suffer and if the owners cannot afford the treatment they need they will have to consider having the animal pts when they shouldn't have been put in this position in the first place when they took out lifetime cover for their pets thinking this would be lifetime not until the insurance company worked out that it wasn't feasable, they should have been made to pay for the rest of the pets lives that the owners took out but not insure any new pets, as no other insurance companies will take on pre-existing conditions and they knew this.

Helen

> they have compensated some people whose animals have ongoing conditions

Helen, might it be the case that they paying for medications/treatments that animals are already on but not new medications that might be required in the future for existing conditions.

No what they have done is worked out how much they had claimed in the past year and they by all accounts made them an offer, i know somebody had a cruciate ligament done on their dog and they got offered £7500 for future claims incase the dog suffered from arthritis, which there is no saying it definitely would, seems so unfair that some people whose animals have chronic conditions get compensated and others not, just don't know how they have decided who gets money and who doesn't!!!!

I saw on the Halifax web site that their policies are underwritten by Agria Isnsurance. I now several people used to insure direct with Agria and they had a suite at Crufts a year or two back. It said Agria were ceasing trading in the UK.