>I am not sure he deserves the sort of comments he seems to be attracting.

I am. Remember "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen"; presumably nobody forced him to be on TV. Besides, nobosy seems to have attacked him personally, just his actions.

Stooge, me too. I'm appalled by what he did but he's a kid. Shame on the BBC and the production team for choosing a rank amateur to do what should be a professionals job. If they have any care for this boy they should quietly drop him, to spare him and most of all to spare the nations dogs.

>I'm appalled by what he did but he's a kid.

Is he? He looks like an adult to me. According to the BBC's press staement he runs a dog 'treatment' centre in London - and that's not kids stuff.

Likening him to an STD seemed a bit personal to me.
He came across to me as a personable young man.  We don't know what we don't know until someone advises us differently.

> a dog 'treatment' centre in London - and that's not kids stuff.

I don't know what a dog treatment centre is.

Running any sort of centre is a responsible position.

There have been reports of people copying what he did, and being bitten with one dog PTS as a result. The BBC had no disclaimers, no 'don't try this at home'.

The RSPCA are now investigating.

Jean, no-one has been able to find any details for this 'centre' nor for the gentleman concerned. He is a complete nobody without any traceable history.

> Running any sort of centre is a responsible position.

I am not sure that we really know what if anything he runs.  This bit of info only seems to have swept through the net in the last 24 hours.  He does not seem to have a web site or face book page.  This may be the BBC bigging up a bit a training he did on his flatmates dog for all we know.
I certainly don't think he should be on the television advising on training but I don't think I would like all this to happen to any young man close to me.

>I don't think I would like all this to happen to any young man close to me.

But he believes in punishment as well as reward! ;-) This is how the punishment bit feels ...

Stooge, my STD comment was aimed squarely at the BBC in sheer frustration at their seeming refusal to pay attention to the wide spread condemnation of this guy's methods, certainly not at him, he's just taking advantage of a leg up on the career ladder, the BBC however, should know better.

He's supposedly only 21, and as of yet, is not believed to be affiliated to any training/behaviour organisations, it beggers belief that he can appear as an expert on national tv.

> Stooge, my STD comment was aimed squarely at the BBC

I see, then I appologise for getting upset about it :)

It wouldn't surprise me that he isn't using his real name.

I doubt he will be appearing on the Show again :-)

Didn't see it but have seen some of the photos and that was enough to see how dangerous it could be with the teeth bearing and body language of the dog

> It wouldn't surprise me that he isn't using his real name.
>

Well, I wouldn't blame him if he changed it now! :)

I see, then I appologise for getting upset about it

No problem, reading it again it wasn't very clear who I was aiming at.
Looks like dog training will be on again tomorrow, although it wasn't mentioned if it was JS or not, and they did add that the methods shown shouldn't be attempted without consulting a behaviourist, that's them off the hook then .

Stooge at the end of the day he is responsible for his own actions both from agreeing to a contract with the BBC and also has a responsiblity to provide guidance to a wide audience that does not put anybody at risk of injury.

He from what I have seen is very much like an AP character who uses methods that he feels are effective but perhaps misses the short and long term effects because I think they are using theory in a way that has worked in their minds but not understanding fundamental body language and behaviours and the extensive audience which has far reaching potential implications.

I think he may well realise this by the reaction from the vast areas of the dog community but hopefully will learn from this if he is willing to accept his misguided approaches.

Been very interesting to read this -and heartening in many ways. I'm still here in Sweden. For a few months now there has been a debate raging in the Swedish KC's magazine about training methods, with one particular TV trainer who is very old school (read: failed to keep up with advances) being discussed as well as taking part in discussion. She was fairly recently (as within the last year or so) in the news for having been very seriously bitten by a Rottweiler during filming. I hadn't ever seen her on TV, not living in Sweden anymore, but yesterday caught a segment as part of a programme not at all dissimilar to "The one show". I couldn't believe what I was seeing. She was out in the woods with a Boxer and its owner. The Boxer's problem was lack of recall and chasing cars. When she failed to get the dog back when called (or rather the owner did) she (the trainer) lashed out at it and hit it with the lead!!! I seriously hope there will be Swedish complaints. The owner, BTW, was calling the dog in such a stern and aggressive voice that I asked my mum (not a dog owner) if she would feel inclined to run to a woman who called in such a voice -she said no way.

> I think he may well realise this

Which would make him very different to an AP character I think. :)

I am hoping Stooge but let's see :-)

Quote from Victoria Stillwell on Facebook.

I'm worried now that the family is in danger of getting bitten by their JR after the abusive techniques that were used by Jordan shelley on the BBC's One Show and if so the JR will get put down. If anyone knows who the family is, please tell them that I will come over to England free of charge and teach them how to stop their dog guarding in a humane and beautifully effective way. No point in just complaining, I want to save this dog and this family. Please send this to everyone you know.

https://www.facebook.com/VictoriaStilwell?sk=wall

> If they have any care for this boy they should quietly drop him, to spare him and most of all to spare the nations dogs.

I agree with this.... it would be the most diplomatic solution. However by reverse logic, this guy is doing the nation's dogs a much greater service than he thought. All the big guns are coming out to decry his methods and promote positive reward based training - the latest is the Border Collie Trust - and I am sure it has brought modern training methods to the fore, and also to people who may not have even thought much about it in the past.

Speaking as someone who deplores CM's methods (and this guy seems to be a carbon copy), I observed that when CM came to the UK similar press releases were made, as can be seen on the Welfare in Dog Training page. But because CM's entourage includes hotshot lawyers who clamp down on anything and everything, very little got through to the general public.

In a way, this guy's become a scapegoat, but I think it's pretty clear now what the volume of opinion on such 'lion-tamer' trainers is, and from now on, will be. He doesn't have the legal backup that CM has, so it will be interesting to see what develops, especially now that so many organisations and individuals have spoken up. And let's not forget, it's the Beeb embroiled in this as well.. If that ain't newsworthy, then what is?

And let's not forget, it's the Beeb embroiled in this as well.. If that ain't newsworthy, then what is?

VS had a great point there about Crufts. Th BBC cannot POSSIBLY allowed certain breeds to be seen on TV as that is somehow cruel, but they will allow people being cruel to dogs on TV?!

Crufts aside - a lot of orgs spoke out about CM when he did his tour here. He even said on BBC TV Breakfast that the American Humane Assoc approved of him... They most certainly did not, and I had personal correspondence from their PR office to confirm that.

Still goes to show what the UK public are leaning towards. Let's not forget CM was never on main terrestrial TV, so his style has been brought onto our proper mainstream; now it has and the public aren't happy at all.

With over 400 complaints I won't hold my breath waiting for the reply I requested.

Very sad that one dog at least has been PTS because the owners tried this technique and it bit their grandchild, it's problems before they tried this were not as bad as the dog on the BBC

Just checked and no dog training on tonights show but should be on Thursdays.

MsT,

The Beeb has got some pretty decent lawyers on its payroll, I can assure you. However, as a publicly funded body it should be darn careful about what it chooses to put out and it does have to be accountable. 

The production team and series producer/editor are the ones who have made the decision to put this guy on and a very bad decision it is. I still say that this boy will have some personal link to the team and for that reason he was given a slot on the show. He is not known and appears to have had no training or to have a reputation of any kind in serious dog circles. It is astounding, the Beeb has shown the worst kind of arrogance and the kind of high-handed behaviour they accused the KC of. They simply cannot ignore the voices of so many professional organisations in slamming outdated and dangerous training 'techniques'.

Wonder if The Wright Stuff would do something on it.

Just seen this http://coldwetnose.blogspot.com/2011/09/we-ask-press-office-some-difficult.html, this'll be interesting. I know Ms Cuddy isn't everyone's cup of tea, but she has asked some very pertinent questions, and she's more likely to get a reply than any of us,

He is due on tonight Lucy :( and last night they did the 'disclaimer' statement following some feedback :( - like that makes it ok - I do hope he will change his methods and stop this 'dominance' approach but very much doubt it if CM is his hero!!!

I don't want him to change his methods I want him off the show all together. There are so many good dog trainers in this country why do we need to have some nobody who has no idea about how to train.

> I don't want him to change his methods I want him off the show all together.

I think we all want that but the BBC don't seem to be listening !!!  If he does stay a change in his methods would be a start though!

This from FB

From The One Show on their FB page: Thank you to everyone who has shared their opinion on Friday's 'Fix My Dog' feature. We have been looking at all your posts and very much value your comments. We're hoping to debate this further on the show. More news on this topic when we have it! :
That sounds like being fobbed off to me.
I've had go and buy myself a bottle of wine for tonight, purely medicinal you know, I'll either be celebrating or drowning my sorrows.

It's on now - and Jordan's qualification - a veterinary assistant!

He was back on the One Show tonight , defending his  methods and another trainer , was it from Dogs Trust  and a vet who gave a balanced view covering all the pertinent points. Poor Liza , she must have thought she had walked into a mad house....

Ooh, I was a veterinary assistant for a year, about 30 years ago. Does that make me a qualified dog behaviourist then? Lol

> Ooh, I was a veterinary assistant for a year

I'm afraid I don't know what a veterinary assistant is. 

Well, the words white and wash spring to mind.

We got to see an SBT boinging about the park who looked to be more frustrated and ott than aggressive, she was then whipped off to the chap's " sanctuary " which turned out to be his mum and dad's garden, " Abracadabra " and a few weeks later she was cured !...amazing, I don't know why people bother studying for years and years to get qualifications, it's all so simple !.

I did give Joe Inglis a big " hooray " for speaking up against the boy.
Still have no idea if this series will continue, and no mention on the RSPCA investigation, the fight goes on me thinks....now where's that bottle of wine gone...

> I'm afraid I don't know what a veterinary assistant is.

Covers -as I understand it - anyone on the animal side (as opposed to admin side) who is not a qualified vet nurse or vet tech. I'm not sure, but I don't think trainee VNs or VTs would be called assistants, as if he'd worked as a trainee (but not qualified) he could have said 'trainee'. Duties would probably include cleaning, mucking out kennels & cages, assisting with handling during consultations etc. but nothing skilled or very much hands-on. It's more or less what I did for 4 hours every Saturday morning for 2 years when I was 16-17. In  fact as H&S rules have tightened a great deal since then, I was probably much more hands-on than any modern assistant, definitely the vet's second pair of hands when it came to handling any animals from hamsters to huge and anxious GSDs, and was present at any euthanasias.

Jeangenie - your input here?

Well that makes sense.  So, probably someone with experience and therefore confidence handling animals but no formal training or guidance as to the correct methods.

> So, probably someone with experience and therefore confidence handling animals but no formal training or guidance as to the correct methods.

Exactly. Why would being a vet assistant give training or behavioural experience? Vets - with the exception of very few - aren't specialists in behaviour or training, which is why they give referrals to qualified (we hope!) T & B's, and usually have flyers and business cards for local training classes, trainers and behaviourists on their waiting room noticeboards.

Gossip:

I know of a trainer who has been approached to take over ;O)  (those that know me... you'll guess from my facebook friends ;-))

Approached by TOS? interesting :)
I hope he or she's a good 'un! ;)

he is ;-)

>definitely the vet's second pair of hands when it came to handling any animals from hamsters to huge and anxious GSDs, and was present at any euthanasias.

Yep, that's pretty much it - the assistant (my job title is Receptionist/Surgery Assistant); the surgery assistant part involves holding the end that bites as well as scratches, raising veins for blood samples or euthanasias - no formal training required.

> the chap's " sanctuary " which turned out to be his mum and dad's garden

Funny  - I was going to say his business was probably run from his mothers back bedroom :-)

> Funny - I was going to say his business was probably run from his mothers back bedroom

LOL.. well it was a decently sized back garden... North London, so that probably doesn't include Haringey or Tottenham. The enclosure we saw him put the dog into - again, a la CM - had a mesh-link fence about 5ft high with stones around the outside edge. For a minute I wondered if he had made use of a redundant tennis court. We saw him walking the dog among 4-5 others - his? - and that was that. We saw the owner giving up the dog to him (shades of Dog Borstal) and it being put on a treadmill (CM).

BTW I have a very close, good friend who is this chap's age....and instead of trying to get on TV and being something he isn't, has worked immensely hard over the last few years. He also takes in fosters and rescues in his spare time, has done so for years, but never has he ever thought to pump himself up to be anything he isn't. He is currently working towards his degree, and works weekends and nights as a vet tech for an out of hours service. He is FAR more qualified to be on TOS than this chap! yet if he gets a foster in with some issues, he calls me for advice! (I do my best, I promise, and usually tell him to consult a professional).

I'd love to get the two together and for my friend to tell this guy that you need to get your head down and study if you ever want to make anything of yourself for real, forget any quick fix stardom and 15 mins of fame, cos that's all he's ever going to be, sadly.

MT,
Exactly, you want to say to this boy go and get properly qualified and then try again, once you know what you are talking about.

I really think the producers on that show have not thought through the implications of their decision to use him and were dazzled by the prospect of their own 'whisperer' figure, along with dramatic-ratings rich- TV and the lure of a seeming quick fix.

Is it who i'm thinking of HG? Am I friends with him too ;-)

>>Is it who i'm thinking of HG? Am I friends with him too >>

Don't be mean I'm now going nuts with curiosity!!

> he is ;-)

I hope it is who I think it is ID the initials?  Be lovely if it was and he's back on TV?