Has anybody got any good links to any research or good articles on this as working with one of my girls on this and have got it under quite good control but today we had an incident for the first time in months where I was with the dog (Moose)she (Betty) attacked whilst I was rubbing Moose down with a towel after a very wet walk and food.

Straight after the attack which is frenzied Betty is very submissive and will go to Moose for reassurance and is totally submissive. When I seperated them today I saw another behaviour from Betty. I did shout at her as had to drag her off but she stood shaking and her teeth started to chatter as I think she was in shock.

It is not a typical bitch on bitch hate relationship as the great majority of time they are very close. It is a trigger and frenzied attack situation but today was a new one because I was involved.

I am ok as we have the situation under control in how they are managed normally so this is research rather than a solution if that makes sense :-)

I'll be watching to see if anything comes up with interest, my elderly terrier cross has done something similar on a few occasions when she becomes excited/aroused, she starts making a revving like whine and will go stiff and shakey before giving one of the other dogs a once over, however with her 'attacks' I wouldn't describe as frenzied even though they look/sound it as she never actually leaves wounds or bruises them, just sort of fast mouths them for a few seconds usually before looking shocked and slinking off.

You might find James O'Hear's, The Dog Aggression Workbook helpful, excellent book which not only takes you step by step through behaviour rehabilitation, it also explains what's going on internally.

Have a look at Feeling Outnumbered? How to Manage and Enjoy Your Multi-dog Household by Karen London and Patricia McConnell

It's smallish booklet rather than a book but it's full of the sort of common sense advice and training techniques the authors are known for.  You might not find quite enough about your specific issue in it but the whole ethos about working with multiple dogs is a good read and a handy checklist for problem resolution.

I have a few books by this author and highly recommend her so you could try looking at her website for more specific advice :)

Oh Lucy - I do know only too well just how unsettling it is to have this sort of behaviour suddenly occurring ....:(

As it always is Betty who attacks, and then goes into "submissive" mode, I am wondering whether she might in fact be suffering from episodes of petit mal?    I do remember that she was a rescue, and I wonder whether you can find out anything behind her lines that might point to this?

I vaguely remember from my early childhood (at the end of the war) that at one time we had a labrador (pre he whose name we cannot mention know) and that he suffered from petit mal attacks - but he would then "attack" the kitchen table. 

I can heartily recommend Trish McConnell too, I saw her a few weeks ago at a seminar on aggression and she was a complete inspiration, on her web page there's a link to her blog which is compulsive reading, very informative.

Margot this is what I am thinking :-)
But she is a very driven Lab and is unfortunately from a puppy farm but a working kennel version which is even worse :-(
She is a lovely girl and we adore her but this incident makes me wonder about her as I could have been hurt as you were.:-(

Had a chat to the vet and I think we have concluded this is a behavioural issue rather than fits.

I think as we can manage the behaviour and never leave them alone we will have to manage it.

She is a very strange dog in many ways and certainly was bred with temperament in mind !

> certainly was bred with temperament in mind !

??????

Do you think she means was NOT bred with temperament in mind, Barbara??? :-)

I rather think she must have surely, or meant tongue in cheek, but best to clarify for other googling/random readers benefit

Yes missed the NOT !!

Lucy that sounds rather like Cooper on a bad day. Excitement seems to be the key factor and twice I have had to separate the boys when a game has gone that bit too far - H will stop when told but Coops pushes it that little bit too far and won't back off. 99% of the time the play is just that - play - but then the tone of their noisy games changes and I have to be really on the ball to stop the over excitement kicking in and Cooper going OTT.