My terrier bitch recently had a litter of 5 pups, all were deformed.

Having gave birth to the first pup she then had to have a c-section. 3 of the subsequent 4 pups were still-born and seemed to have twisted spines, the other later died having a congenital heart defect. The first apparently healthy pup was then discovered to have a cleft palate and also a weak heart, so was euthanized.

It was the mother's first litter and she is 2.5 yrs old. There was no history of anything like this on either the mother of sires lines. The vet said it was probably genetic as the mother is a step-aunt of the sire (both are outcrossed to different lines however). Was wondering what people think about this, as I've read that it's unusual for a genetic defect to affect the entire litter, and it is more likely to be environmental.

The bitch was fed on a good quality food and switched to a puppy food 6 weeks into pregnancy (Science Plan).
Would really appreciate any advice or comments.
Thanks.

> as the mother is a step-aunt of the sire

Confused, as step means no relation by blood ie step father.

Indeed, if an entire litter is affected, and especially with different types of deformities, you can almost be certain it was environmental and not genetic. Can you think of anything that could have happened during early pregnancy, especially around 3 weeks or so in? It could be anything from overheating (sleeping on a hot surface for instance) to having used medication on the bitch or her having drank water contaminated with something, has she been ill etc.

Sorry I meant something of a half-aunt. The bitches father is the dogs grandfather but all the other lines are different.
Can't think of anything in particular going wrong during the pregnancy and she wasn't sick either. The vet just said to use a different stud dog next time. It was a carefully planned cross but now I'm terrified of every crossing the pair again.

I have heard of deformed litters when the bitch went for regular walks on public foot paths through rape fields - i presume it was insecticides.

> The bitches father is the dogs grandfather but all the other lines are different.
>

That shouldnt be a problem....I would think it is something else that may have occured during the pregnancy, it may not be even something you would be aware of...

I don't agree with it being genetic either.  I bet if you used the same sire next time, the outcome would be different.

It's a shame though, that you can't pinpoint something that happened earlier on in her pregnancy.   I'm really sorry that she has no pups though, and can imagine how devastated you must be.

How awful for you - it doesn't sound genetic to me either.  Did you worm the bitch during pregnancy, if so what with?

contact with pesticides or herbicides in the second trimester also.

I agree, I have used half uncle to niece matings (same dog a parent one side and grandparent on the other) with positive effect and never had any deformities.  I have even mated half brother to half sister (but other granparent totally unrelated imports from different countries) with very healthy pups.

For a whole litter of deformed puppies if genetic it would need to be a dominant form of inheritance for all to be affected, in other words one of the parents would have had to have had the deformity in some degree.  Most genetic conditions are either recessive of polygenic (complex mode of inheritance involving many genes) and then only some would be affected.

Your vet really had no right to say anything was genetic without knowing the lines concerned, once again breeding unless from a vet who does breed, or has studied, it really is not their field and they know very little, they are trained in medical matters not genetics, most can't even spot what breed you have.

If all lines are clear then I agree with everyone else something has happened along the way, what? I guess we will never know for sure.

It must have been tragic to see what had happened to those whelps, very upsetting, but I wouldn't give up.

In this case, would a PM be of any help ?

What an awful thing to have happened. I have done a similar pairing, studs sire was bitches grandsire and seen it on pedigrees umpteen times.

I agree that with multiple deformities/conditions it is unlikely to be genetic, it would be extremely unlucky for 2 dogs to produce so many things wrong in one litter. Pity the vet put it all down to genetics.

It would be interesting to know if during the forming of the pup in utero if all those affected parts were developing at the same time in the gestational period, you could then maybe pinpoint something that happened around that time.

Did you give any supplements early on or could she have got hold of something which may not have shown a problem with her but could have had a drastic affect on the pups?

I hope her next litter arrives fit and healthy.

I did worm the bitch daily from day 40 with 'Parazole' as instructed. She was also walked daily near a local racecourse and she is a bit of a grazer - I can remember one day noticing a lot of dead vegetation (had been sprayed) mentioned this to the vet and he said that weedkillers wouldn't cause the deformities.
Both the dog and bitch are perfectly healthy and clear on all health tests.

Thanks for all the replies, suggestions and sympathies - really appreciated. It has really given me some hope and a lot to ponder on! My gut feeling was that it wasn't genetic but when a vet says otherwise... what to do?

I mentioned the rape seed as I recall a story of a lady walking her in whelp dog when a crop sprayer came close by.Pesticides are notorious for causing deformities.So sad for you and your woo.

I am a little confused when you say 'I did worm the bitch daily from day 40 with 'Parazole' as instructed'

We normally worm our bitches with Panacur 10% (Fenbendazole) during late gestation.   

PARAZOLE® is FLUBENDAZOLE 12%

This is what I have picked up from the Bayer site

. Currently, it is admitted that only Albendazole, Fenbendazole (Panacur®) and Oxfendazole (Synanthic®, Dolthene®) can be effective against somatic larvae of roundworms (Toxocara canis and possibly Ancylostoma caninum).

  Mebendazole (Telmin®) and Flubendazole (Flubenol®) are ineffective against somatic larvae of roundworm (Petrich and Stoye 1981, Bosse and Stoye 198

Just wondering......

Jo

Parazole 10% is a registered name in Ireland. It contains Fenbendazole. It's the same as Panacur 10%.

As this is the equivalent to Panacur I would  suspect that it has caused this.  Other breeders have had similar problems and have lost litters, I've personally had a pup with under developed optic nerves, so this could well be the reason.  You wont find them admitting to issues but it would be worth writing to them and telling them what's happened.  My advice would be to use Drontal on pregnant bitches and young pups (under 6 months).  I know it doesn't say you can on the instructions but if you write to manufacturers and ask for instructions they'll let you know what to do. 

And just to balance things many others of us have used panacur in pregnancy for many generations of bitches with no ill effects.

I am now into the 7th generation of home bred bitches, have used panacur as my usual wormer for pups and adults too.

I really cannot understand your vet saying that pesticides would not be the issue as that is very highly likely to have a negative effect in the crucial developmental stages.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=pesticides+an+birth+defects&rls=com.microsoft:en-gb:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7IRFE_enGB445&redir_esc=&ei=T057Ton9AciK0AWdzd2jAw

Don't know if it helps you but when my girl's pregnancy took, we had a flood the evening before.  I had things like stain remover and bin freshener coming out with the water from under the sink.  trying to keep the dogs out of the water or off the floor as we mopped up was imposible and from me panicking and people walking through.  When we scanned she had two viable and one in the last stages of absorbing.  She had a very small litter for her line and i think she must have injested some of the chemicals and maybe lost more than we know.  Maybe your girls should have absorbed the non surviving pups and that's why you saw so many with problems.  I'm convinced there was more on the scan going.

Worming that late in the pregnancy would not cause the heart or palate defects as they are well formed by 40 days and just need to mature, the wormer would not undo that development.

The twisted spines may have been due to how they were lying in the uterine horns and how long they had been dead.

Here is a simplified description of puppy foetal development

http://www.ehow.co.uk/list_7325036_stages-fetal-puppy-development.html

More detailed

http://www.royalcanin.us/library/fetal_development_birth_defects_dogs.aspx

Ingested Equine fecal matter, from a horse recently wormed? (Bitch exercised near race course)

I would say this is a strong possibility. When I lived with my parents we bred a litter and when born all ten had to be pts with varying deformities. We had horses and did try to keep the dogs away from the droppings but one day we did find her snacking on the muckheap...not long after the horses had been wormed. We put it down to this and she went on to have a healthy litter (after being kept 100% away from the horses).

>I did worm the bitch daily from day 40

So do I.  And I have used Panacur for many years with small breeds, and never had a problem.

Was the healthy litter a result of using the same stud dog, Drover?

< It was a carefully planned cross

I'm confused (and probably being a little dense here), but how can it be a cross breed when the bitches sire is also the dog's grandsire?

Cross in this instance would be another term for mating, i.e. 'carefully planned mating'

Cross in this instance would be another term for mating, i.e. 'carefully planned mating'

Yes, we used the same sire.

Can't offer any advice, however i'm just wanting to pass on how sorry I am that this has happened, heartbreaking i'm sure x

Thank you very much suejaw.

Genetics is standard vet talk for haven't got a clue!!

Don't take it to heart reading through it all sounds a extremely unfortunate case which will never be properly resolved, but it awful for all concerned. But good for you to post it so others can be aware and informed as the info out there the better.

Very interesting about insectides though, my local council sprayed our local meadow lands last year, never thought anything of it till one of my males started fitting. Stopped walking him there for a while and no more fits. Some nasty things out there that you're not always in control of and others don't always think about animals.